Manchester and Liverpool mayors call for termination of Northern rail

[Mike Storey]

1 minute ago, DY444 said:

 

I don't think he is being criticised for actually doing what he promised.  He is being criticised because what he promised was expected to cripple TfL's finances and it has.

 

It was budgetted as costing £640m over four years, and it has/will. If passenger numbers had not suddenly dropped, due to terrorism fears from tourists, changes in lifestyles and changes in working patterns, and CrossRail had not been delayed, the forward plans showed that TfL could easily afford this.

 

The question is whether that policy should have changed in light of these new factors. Very open to question, but there is no majority in the LA to force him to do so. Elections for mayor next year, so we will see what is offered then.

 

[woodenhead]

I suspect the emissions zone charging expansions will help recoup some of the losses and ultimately London will continue to grow.

 

The big fly in the ointment will be the impact of Brexit on the city and the flight of banks abroad.

[woodenhead]

13 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

I'd advocate it concentrating on Greater London.  I may be in a minority of one but I think it is absurd that TfL is going to be running services to Reading.  The politics which "only" come from the Mayor's office in particular have a huge impact, the fares freeze for example. 

My impressions is they look at commuter trains that come into London as potentially theirs to regulate, sort of Network Southeast on steroids.

 

But if you apply that rule to strictly then would HS2 fall under that umbrella, where do you stop.

[Mike Storey]

1 minute ago, DY444 said:

 

I'd advocate it concentrating on Greater London.  I may be in a minority of one but I think it is absurd that TfL is going to be running services to Reading.  The politics which "only" come from the Mayor's office in particular have a huge impact, the fares freeze for example. 

 

I get that, and I believe many share that opinion. But it is nothing new. LT, and its predecessors ran well into Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Essex, Kent, Surrey and what was Middlesex, since before WW1. Berkshire is just another one.

 

Transport for Greater Manchester, following the changes made in 2010, is now gradually creeping outside its original, administrative borders. It is inevitable that transport operation must follow demand, and integrated transport is a better solution than fragmented control.

 

[Steamport Southport]

If they want to save money then getting rid of the unwanted City/Region Mayors would be a good start. Nobody wanted them. In fact they had a referendum to see whether we did want them and it was overwhelmingly against having Regional Mayors. Turnout was only 26%.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Liverpool_City_Region_mayoral_election

 

They are both as useful as chocolate fireguards. I can't remember seeing Steve Rotheram do anything. It's usually Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson who fronts everything.

 

I can only speak for Liverpool. But we've got a council leader, Lord Mayor, Liverpool City Major, Liverpool Region Mayor. How many do they need? Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

 

Jason

[APOLLO]

News this morning

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/18/northern-rail-privatisation

 

Pitiful service and sky-high fares lay bare the myth of ‘market efficiency’. Politicians must stop dodging responsibility.

 

The TSSA trade union has sounded the alarm on Northern Rail. The Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association, a union for workers in the transport and travel industries, is trying to get ahead of another potential collapse like the one that brought down Virgin East Coast, and has called on the government to “put passengers first”, saying that the franchise “cannot be allowed to stagger on for months”.

 

Brit15

[pete_mcfarlane]

That seems more like a rant on behalf of the TSSA than anything else. 

 

They also need to decide if the services are massively overcrowded due to demand exceeding capacity, or so expensive that nobody can afford to use them. It can't be both simultaneously.  In fact the comment about Northern fairs being 'Sky High' suggests that the piece was written by somebody from London who's never actually used Northern's service. 'Cheap but a bit cr*p' would be a better description. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Saunders]

1 minute ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

That seems more like a rant on behalf of the TSSA than anything else. 

 

They also need to decide if the services are massively overcrowded due to demand exceeding capacity, or so expensive that nobody can afford to use them. It can't be both simultaneously.  In fact the comment about Northern fairs being 'Sky High' suggests that the piece was written by somebody from London who's never actually used Northern's service. 'Cheap but a bit cr*p' would be a better description. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Northern fares are a lottery depending on where you live, the former PTE areas are cheap in comparison with the other areas, from memory you could travel across West Yorkshire for a similar amount to the fare from Micklefield to York!

 

Hence why the first stations in the Metropolitan areas attract passengers from outside the area!

[TheSignalEngineer]

10 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Northern fares are a lottery depending on where you live, the former PTE areas are cheap in comparison with the other areas, from memory you could travel across West Yorkshire for a similar amount to the fare from Micklefield to York!

 

Hence why the first stations in the Metropolitan areas attract passengers from outside the area!

Not sure if it's still the same but a lot of New Mills residents used to drive to Marple to benefit from cheaper fares.

[caradoc]

2 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

That seems more like a rant on behalf of the TSSA than anything else. 

 

They also need to decide if the services are massively overcrowded due to demand exceeding capacity, or so expensive that nobody can afford to use them. It can't be both simultaneously.  In fact the comment about Northern fairs being 'Sky High' suggests that the piece was written by somebody from London who's never actually used Northern's service. 'Cheap but a bit cr*p' would be a better description. 

 

 

Indeed. Two quotes from the article;

 

'rail transport is far too expensive in the UK, especially if you use it as a commuter service and can’t pick the times you travel. '

'we’re paying over the odds ... for a train that might never arrive and will be hugely overcrowded when it does'

 

There has been a similar contradiction in a Facebook discussion in response to an LNER advert, again complaining that fares are too high yet trains are overcrowded. I did consider asking what people thought the effect on overcrowding would be if fares were reduced, and where the finance would then come from to increase capacity, but anticipating the sort of reply I would get, decided against it.