Tierwag car transporter

[37Oban]

Hi,

 

I'm waiting for the arrival of a Hornby tierwag bought from a well known auction site.  I can justify one on a forthcoming EM layout I shall be building later this year.

 

However, I'm having a wee bit of trouble trying to find photographs of these, late in their careers, to help with weathering!  In fact, I haven't found one yet, which, considering their rarity and when they taken out of service, isn't really surprising, but I was wondering if anyone here could point me in the right direction?

 

So far I've found out they were built in 3 batches:  6 to lot no. 3260, then 13 for British MAT Transport and a further 12, also for British MAT Transport and it's one of the second batch mine will be numbered as.  I see from the drawings, available from the Barrowmore Group, there were a few detail differences between the first and subsequent batches, but I'm not bothered about them.  Then again...

 

What I am interested in is the lifting mechanism used to raise the bottom section for loading/unloading.  Looking at the drawings it looks like a scissor jack arrangement activated by either hydraulics or screw. Can anyone enlighten me?  Apparently this mechanism gave endless problems and lead to their withdrawal, in 1970, for the first batch at least.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Roja

[Mike Storey]

Is this a Tierwag (top left pic)? If so, does it help?

 

[37Oban]

Hi Mike,

 

It is!  Cracking photograph, and answers my question about how the bottom section was raised.  Not, as I suspected, a jack mechanism but actual cable hoists, as can be seen in the photo!  What I didn't realise was that  the bottom section was in two parts.  Interesting modelling opportunity!

 

Many thanks,

 

Roja

[Fat Controller]

I recollect reading that there had been a serious (possibly fatal) accident involving the lifting deck, after which the deck-space in the 'well' was not used. Lifting of car-carrier decks is still done today; the GEFCO double-deckers have a winch mechanism to lower the outer ends of the top deck to form a ramp, if there is not a fixed or mobile ramp at the terminal. That photo-caption is the first evidence of these vehicles actually crossing the Channel; I knew they'd been given ferry-fittings, and international numbers, but had seen nothing previously about them going forth.

[JeremyC]

Many years ago I used to see double deck car carrier coaches in Waverley station, were these just tierwagons covered by a carriage body? They were, I think, built by the same company, Newton Chambers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/8468468772/

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by JeremyC

[Mike Storey]

9 minutes ago, JeremyC said:

Many years ago I used to see double deck car carrier coaches in Waverley station, were these just tierwagons covered by a carriage body? They were, I think, built by the same company, Newton Chambers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/8468468772/

 

 

That would coincide with the second part of the article on the page opposite the photos. Fascinating. These had stopped running by the time I worked at Kings Cross, although the sleepers were still going, so I never got to see inside one. I never knew these were double-deck inside!

 

[Fat Controller]

Newton Chambers were a curious sort of company; initially, they had been mine and steelworks owners in Chapeltown, Sheffield, who diversified into other areas. One of these was the infamous 'Izal' toilet paper, which older members will remember with a shiver. It had a non-stick surface, with a lower co-efficient of friction than Teflon, whilst the edge could give you paper cuts where you'd least want them. Why did they make it? Well, the 'medicated' finish used by-products from their coke ovens; 'waste not, want not', as my nan used to say.

[Simon Lee]

13 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Newton Chambers were a curious sort of company; initially, they had been mine and steelworks owners in Chapeltown, Sheffield, who diversified into other areas. One of these was the infamous 'Izal' toilet paper, which older members will remember with a shiver. It had a non-stick surface, with a lower co-efficient of friction than Teflon, whilst the edge could give you paper cuts where you'd least want them. Why did they make it? Well, the 'medicated' finish used by-products from their coke ovens; 'waste not, want not', as my nan used to say.

 

The only positive from Izal was the unusual liveried Palvans used to transport the finished product.

 

I recall an item in the magazines of the time regarding a new system of airbag dunnage used to protect the load in transit, l could never work how how bum paper was that valuable to require special handling.

[JeremyC]

Seem to remember Izal made good tracing paper if nothing else!

 

The supplement to the Parkin's Mk1 book has extracts from the carriage committee minutes; there are some concerning the car carriers criticising them for poor build quality, mainly in connection with treatment of the steelwork before painting and the quality of the fibreglass cladding. There also seem to have been concerns about the bogies' performance at passenger train  speeds.

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by JeremyC

[Fat Controller]

45 minutes ago, Simon Lee said:

 

The only positive from Izal was the unusual liveried Palvans used to transport the finished product.

 

I recall an item in the magazines of the time regarding a new system of airbag dunnage used to protect the load in transit, l could never work how how bum paper was that valuable to require special handling.

They didn't want it abrading the interior of the wagon...

[Fat Controller]

14 minutes ago, JeremyC said:

Seem to remember Izal made good tracing paper if nothing else!

 

The supplement to the Parkin's Mk1 book has extracts from the carriage committee minutes; there are some concerning the car carriers criticising them for poor build quality, mainly in connection with treatment of the steelwork before painting and the quality of the fibreglass cladding. There also seem to have been concerns about the bogies' performance at passenger train  speeds.

 

The bogies were very short wheelbase; even shorter than those used on contemporary bogie freight stock.

[dvdlcs]

3 hours ago, JeremyC said:

Many years ago I used to see double deck car carrier coaches in Waverley station, were these just tierwagons covered by a carriage body? They were, I think, built by the same company, Newton Chambers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/8468468772/

 

 

I used to visit Waverley in the mid 1980s. 96294 and 96295 used to be parked in one of the south facing bay platforms among the parcels vans. Not sure if they were still in use then, as I only ever saw those two and they never seemed to move.

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The bogies were very short wheelbase; even shorter than those used on contemporary bogie freight stock.

The GWR, in particular, was a fairly prolific user of 7' wheelbase carriage bogies during the 30s, before reverting to 9' bogies. That may have been indicative of dynamic problems, but until the research work that was undertaken for the APT project, there wasn't that much known about bogie and wheelset stability.

 

Jim

[37Oban]

7 hours ago, JeremyC said:

Many years ago I used to see double deck car carrier coaches in Waverley station, were these just tierwagons covered by a carriage body? They were, I think, built by the same company, Newton Chambers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/8468468772/

 

Hi,

 

I've just read the part article.  Seems these car carriers were an entirely new build.  Maybe they'd hoped that the problems with the tierwags hoist system had been ironed out!

 

Roja

[Wickham Green]

On 01/06/2019 at 14:33, jim.snowdon said:

The GWR, in particular, was a fairly prolific user of 7' wheelbase carriage bogies during the 30s, before reverting to 9' bogies.  ......................

They even - somehow - managed to use shorter wheelbase 'bogies' on the broad gauge ....... the mind boggles !

[divibandit]

Brilliant photo Mike, and thank you Roja for the original question!

Anyone have any ideas on colours for these wagons? 

I have 3 Tri-Ang ones primed and awaiting paint...

 

Steve

 

[SteveyDee68]

I learnt yesterday that the Oxford carflats I recently purchased for a train ferry project may not be correct (no ferry tie down fittings) but was told that the Triang Tierwag was! Having searched RMWeb, I found CHARD's entries about getting rid of them with surplus minic cars (and nothing else), but a general Google search directed me to this thread. Nothing much else via Google (other than eBay adverts!)

 

The photo shown above shows the anchor points, so now I know I can legitimately run them on my train ferry. What I don't know is (a) how accurate the Triang model is (b) what should be done to improve it and (c) what livery it carried?

 

JeremyC asked a question about the coach-like wagon that he wondered if it was (and I paraphrase) a tierwag wearing a shellsuit? Can anyone answer that question?

 

Thanks

 

Steve S

Edited July 24, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Typos! (Grrrr!)

[hmrspaul]

The BR ones were considered to be "specially constructed wagons" diag 2/293 and were in the standard (no such thing!)  freight stock red. See plate 108 in Bartlett et al 1985. Despite having the tie downs for ferry its not clear if the BR ones were used on ferries, (although there were wagons that with a few ferry fixtures that simply worked on the ferry to the continental dock and then unloaded). 

 

The only  photo of a MAT one I have is of the prototype 16/12/57 and no lettering is visible. The whole body including all the headstock and all of the plateback bogie except the axleboxes  is in grey, Isn't the Tri-ang one like that? It was numbered 501100B which is the type of numbering used by BR for privately owned ferry wagons. I saw one in my youth from a moving express train. but only remember a grey.  Oval head buffers, screw couplings and drop down vacpipe and also a single air pipe. 

 

And yes, they were all built at Newton Chambers and the BR NPCCS ones were the basic idea covered over. As is well known the dropping of cars between the bogies was soon ended after a (fatal?) accident. 

 

Paul

[Dzine]

Hi Folks, sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but hope these might help.  Both are from the same BR booklet, Freight Transport, Equipment used by British Railways and British Road Services, Published by the British Transport Commission, my copy is a later one dated 1959.  Regards Paul