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1 hour ago, andypops said:

The Sabre used to be produced by the infamous CMSC range. Sadly these are long gone and are like rocking horse excrement to find on eBay - but thankfully most of the CVR(T) range have been taken on and reproduced by Ian at Friendship Models as part of their “Wee friends” or “Braille Scale” range.
 

They have I think all of the CVR(T) range including Sabre (including I think the BATUS variants such as Sturgeon and Salamander) in resin / white metal. A little fiddlier to build but *much* more accurate. And the tracks are white metal so will actually close, unlike airfix! 
 

Most importantly - Ian is very fast and responsive to email questions, and the kits are about £15 per which is similar / slightly cheaper than the horrid plastic kits on eBay. No brainer to me!

 

I have no connection to them other than being a very satisfied customer - and after receiving these I will likely be ordering even more!

 

If anyone would like I can post some pictures of the sabre and airfix scimitar later for comparison. 
 

I can also second recommendations for the S&M models (unfortunate name!!) FV432s and some other of their kits including Sampson, Spartan and Samaritan, but I don’t think their Scimitars are as good as Wee Friends. 

Do you mean S&S ? Or were you thinking about S&M at that point ?!

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38 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Do you mean S&S ? Or were you thinking about S&M at that point ?!

They are a genuine firm I promise! https://www.scalemates.com/brands/sandm-models--1924
 

However you were of course correct and I was thinking of S and S for the 432s etc. 
 

S and M models produced a lot of aircraft kits and also a kit of the Alvis Stalwart  which I’ve heard mixed things about, but would be much better as a load than the much heavier BW Models Stalwarts. (If we’re on dodgy names, don’t search for that one on eBay either ;-) )

 

Sadly, so many of these kit manufacturers have gone out of business over the last 10-15 years. BW Models ceased about 8 years ago, and the proprietor of S and M models sadly passed away earlier this year. It was online until recently, but it seems their website is no longer online. 

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1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Er which website are you browsing?!?

 

:lol:


This is the one the rest of us are using . . .

https://sandsmodels.com

5F7EA450-138E-40B9-A997-5B30EB227328.jpeg.8c9d6335d067ba585a651ad52a397a56.jpeg

 

See my message above?? They’re a bona fide manufacturer of mil vehicles at this scale, but I was referring to S and S and have qualified this above. 

 

If you would rather not have contributions from someone knowledgeable about military modelling then I will of course happily withdraw. 

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8 minutes ago, andypops said:

See my message above?? They’re a bona fide manufacturer of mil vehicles at this scale, but I was referring to S and S and have qualified this above. 

 

If you would rather not have contributions from someone knowledgeable about military modelling then I will of course happily withdraw. 

No need to get sniffy.

I don’t think he read your thing about S&M. 
 

I've browsed their stuff and they have a couple of vehicles , but out of stock. However I doubt railway modellers who would  need at least two per wagon will pay £25 each for the fidelity . That’s why S&S are good - they are cheap enough for bulk and a reasonable impression .

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3 hours ago, andypops said:

See my message above?? They’re a bona fide manufacturer of mil vehicles at this scale, but I was referring to S and S and have qualified this above. 

 

If you would rather not have contributions from someone knowledgeable about military modelling then I will of course happily withdraw. 

Andy it was just a light hearted play on your s&m models comment! It even had a laugh emoji after it to show it was for a giggle so it in no way had a pop about knowledge of military modelling. 
 

I hadn’t seen the later comment either as it had been written on the phone earlier and obviously not sent so when I came back it sent when I opened it. 
 

Any hoo let’s just enjoy all the suggestions. 

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Are wee friends (friendship models) still making the Scorpion family of models? I can't find them on their website. There are a few for sale on eBay from someones model stash.

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10 hours ago, andypops said:

The Sabre used to be produced by the infamous CMSC range. Sadly these are long gone and are like rocking horse excrement to find on eBay - but thankfully most of the CVR(T) range have been taken on and reproduced by Ian at Friendship Models as part of their “Wee friends” or “Braille Scale” range.
 

They have I think all of the CVR(T) range including Sabre (including I think the BATUS variants such as Sturgeon and Salamander) in resin / white metal. A little fiddlier to build but *much* more accurate. And the tracks are white metal so will actually close, unlike airfix! 
 

Most importantly - Ian is very fast and responsive to email questions, and the kits are about £15 per which is similar / slightly cheaper than the horrid plastic kits on eBay. No brainer to me!

 

I have no connection to them other than being a very satisfied customer - and after receiving these I will likely be ordering even more!

 

If anyone would like I can post some pictures of the sabre and airfix scimitar later for comparison. 
 

I can also second recommendations for the S&M models (unfortunate name!!) FV432s and some other of their kits including Sampson, Spartan and Samaritan, but I don’t think their Scimitars are as good as Wee Friends. 

Andypops if you could post some pics that would be great. I will havdvto have a look at those puppies.

 

Love the Windsor Davies avatar!

 

Cheers Trailrage

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Lol just had to go and check to see if I had got the name wrong but nope all OK. These are 1/72 so perhaps a tad big but they will suffice for me. 

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

 

20210703_204451.jpg

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15 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said:

Andypops if you could post some pics that would be great. I will havdvto have a look at those puppies.

 

Love the Windsor Davies avatar!

 

Cheers Trailrage

Here are some side by sides of the Scimitar from Airfix and the CMSC / Wee Friends Sabres. I’ve gone for a very plain Scimitar without any scratchbuilt additions to show what you get from the box - hopefully you can see they don’t give the right overall impression of CVR(T)s. The Sabre is much more (correctly) “squat” and has plenty of stowage hanging off it!
 

BBB748C3-8AEE-476E-A8F6-0798FF314EAC.jpeg.df065593a825627822529087928edd9a.jpeg

 

E9E0EBA8-2A53-4550-9A5E-23E41616EACE.jpeg.128f6e2722e5e85575a56d0c28051ea0.jpeg

 

a slightly lower angle to try to show the turret ring mod on the Sabre - it might not look readily apparent in the picture but it’s very pronounced (correctly) IRL. 28BEE769-EE5C-4351-A0B6-091C592B8247.jpeg.9d44027587271bc49b56179ad7f2f3f8.jpeg

 

These are some individual shots of them both for comparison. Forgive the clumsy headlight painting on the Scimitar - at the point I painted these I had just build 8 and was losing patience!! I considered modifying them to early 2000 spec (eg changed light clusters, added stowage, potentially dieselification) but as they’re just going to be loads on moving wagons O didn’t see much point. 
 

E1B06E34-BC25-4607-9E82-0A350D3694E3.jpeg.e4a4fb3637d10c4cfe10e791897bbe90.jpeg8AA808A5-EA66-461C-805E-70B5763998E8.jpeg.c32a4d8f46ce2e41a52d420787f68b25.jpeg90B36152-20F3-483E-88D1-C1857BB55CF1.jpeg.2028bdfc52eed3c4ce19a067c48d9740.jpeg8AA808A5-EA66-461C-805E-70B5763998E8.jpeg.c32a4d8f46ce2e41a52d420787f68b25.jpeg

 

In summary, the CMSC / Wee friends vehicles are much better as loads for these wagons, or for placing around the scene if you want other dioramas. The S and S are very good but do get very heavy on a long train (I have 12 white metal war wells and war flats, so only the most powerful locos can pull them!). But the Airfix Scimitar is a fair enough representation and light enough to be a good load. 

6B8912E4-3400-4A8D-86B2-2E65ACBD285E.jpeg

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16 hours ago, KDG said:

Are wee friends (friendship models) still making the Scorpion family of models? I can't find them on their website. There are a few for sale on eBay from someones model stash.

Yes, as far as I know - I spoke to the proprietor last month via email and they sent me an updated price list the same evening. The website isn’t the greatest but it seems that most mil modelling manufacturers are better to reach using direct comms. 
 

As an indicator of their other CVR(T) kits, this is an Alvis Stormer - an elongated chassis with an extra wheel, used as transport, or modified for AA or as a flatbed mine scatterer (sadly the mine scattering systems are now out of service but were definitely interesting to watch on exercise!)

 

FA11914E-5319-4625-9B25-F61429A35FCD.jpeg.5c703ede838711b348b5484c0b13bac7.jpeg

 

0D8CF5B4-9828-4681-A3E8-9465763CB329.jpeg.0927c2b544075b9f9108219b225c5e56.jpeg

 

27CA23ED-ED19-4E2A-BB96-CB6F320B55B6.jpeg.f416619aaa150474ccaa3ef05cf76780.jpeg

(placed next to the Sabre for comparison)

 

 

Again, no link to them other than as a satisfied customer. Would be happy to answer any other mil vehicle modelling questions if I have the answers! 

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Mine scattering Stormers are OOS as anti-personnel mines are now illegal and we don’t use them! The Stormer feels so much bigger than “ordinary” CVR(T), especially my favourite little sports tank, the Spartan.

Paul

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33 minutes ago, andypops said:

Yes, as far as I know - I spoke to the proprietor last month via email and they sent me an updated price list the same evening. The website isn’t the greatest but it seems that most mil modelling manufacturers are better to reach using direct comms. 
 

As an indicator of their other CVR(T) kits, this is an Alvis Stormer - an elongated chassis with an extra wheel, used as transport, or modified for AA or as a flatbed mine scatterer (sadly the mine scattering systems are now out of service but were definitely interesting to watch on exercise!)

Again, no link to them other than as a satisfied customer. Would be happy to answer any other mil vehicle modelling questions if I have the answers! 

How did you get on with the tracks on the Airfix kit - I'm told they are too short - I'm interested as I'm just about to build one...

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7 hours ago, Gilbert said:

How did you get on with the tracks on the Airfix kit - I'm told they are too short - I'm interested as I'm just about to build one...

I've never had a problem with the tracks being too short, built about 30 of them over the years. Trouble is there's so much else wrong for a modern Scimitar. From memory the airfix kit represents the prototype but not production models, or indeed the revised stowage arrangements etc on current vehicles. Nice kit though. 

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I agree with the poster above - they are just long enough but (a) don’t be tempted to trim too much off and (b) they need strong superglue or ideally heat sealing with a soldering iron tip. There are some aftermarket white metal tracks available from somewhere - possibly Matador Models? - but I’ve only bought from them at shows. 
 

I tend to leave the tracks off until after painting (esp if painting a camouflaged scheme) and do them last. Another tip is to put the ugly join in the middle underneath - it hides the join and you can sand it flat so nobody knows it’s there. 

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On 04/07/2021 at 11:51, andypops said:

Here are some side by sides of the Scimitar from Airfix and the CMSC / Wee Friends Sabres. I’ve gone for a very plain Scimitar without any scratchbuilt additions to show what you get from the box - hopefully you can see they don’t give the right overall impression of CVR(T)s. The Sabre is much more (correctly) “squat” and has plenty of stowage hanging off it!
 

BBB748C3-8AEE-476E-A8F6-0798FF314EAC.jpeg.df065593a825627822529087928edd9a.jpeg

 

E9E0EBA8-2A53-4550-9A5E-23E41616EACE.jpeg.128f6e2722e5e85575a56d0c28051ea0.jpeg

 

a slightly lower angle to try to show the turret ring mod on the Sabre - it might not look readily apparent in the picture but it’s very pronounced (correctly) IRL. 28BEE769-EE5C-4351-A0B6-091C592B8247.jpeg.9d44027587271bc49b56179ad7f2f3f8.jpeg

 

These are some individual shots of them both for comparison. Forgive the clumsy headlight painting on the Scimitar - at the point I painted these I had just build 8 and was losing patience!! I considered modifying them to early 2000 spec (eg changed light clusters, added stowage, potentially dieselification) but as they’re just going to be loads on moving wagons O didn’t see much point. 
 

E1B06E34-BC25-4607-9E82-0A350D3694E3.jpeg.e4a4fb3637d10c4cfe10e791897bbe90.jpeg8AA808A5-EA66-461C-805E-70B5763998E8.jpeg.c32a4d8f46ce2e41a52d420787f68b25.jpeg90B36152-20F3-483E-88D1-C1857BB55CF1.jpeg.2028bdfc52eed3c4ce19a067c48d9740.jpeg8AA808A5-EA66-461C-805E-70B5763998E8.jpeg.c32a4d8f46ce2e41a52d420787f68b25.jpeg

 

In summary, the CMSC / Wee friends vehicles are much better as loads for these wagons, or for placing around the scene if you want other dioramas. The S and S are very good but do get very heavy on a long train (I have 12 white metal war wells and war flats, so only the most powerful locos can pull them!). But the Airfix Scimitar is a fair enough representation and light enough to be a good load. 

6B8912E4-3400-4A8D-86B2-2E65ACBD285E.jpeg

Hi Andypops, I've not heard of CMSC before, who / what are they?

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CMSC (Continental Model Supply Company) were a military vehicle kit manufacturer, mostly 1/76 but some 1/72 and 1/87. Most kits were resin with detail parts in resin or white metal. They made a huge range of vehicles, mostly British military covering light and heavy armour, soft skin vehicles (land rovers, trucks) from the 1950s to early 2000s, focussing on the BAOR era. They also made stowage, bridges etc. A massive range! 
 

They closed in the early 2000s after the proprietor passed away - their masters & moulds were sold to a few other suppliers such as Friendship Models and Kingfisher Miniatures, and some have been lost but other kits (such as the CVRTs) live on. Again, it’s a problem with so much of this being done by a cottage industry, rather than having any big suppliers in this area - I guess they’ve always seen it as too niche?
 

The CMSC kits were incredibly well made and everything fitted well, crisp details and with very little flash - but these days they’re rarer than a rare thing! I’ve seen some of their kits go for > £100 on eBay over the last few years - not exactly affordable to stock a load of wagons! But they can be very effective for some small points of interest in a wider scene - this is exactly what I’m planning to do with mine. 
 

I’m happy to answer anything else but I’m conscious I’ve derailed this thread about the fantastic KFAs...if anyone else wants to ping me a PM I’ll answer, or if a mod wants to split this thread out I can continue it without detracting from the main theme :) 

 

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Andypops,

 

thanks for the gen on CMSC et al.  I thought your Sabre looked particularly impressive.  The ex-Fox turret gives the vehicle a whole different 'sit' and the extra stowage also makes it look extremely purposeful, though I understand they weren't very well liked by crews?  Would look very good on a KFA though.

 

Cheers - happy modelling,

 

Paul

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On 03/07/2021 at 19:23, KDG said:

Are wee friends (friendship models) still making the Scorpion family of models? I can't find them on their website. There are a few for sale on eBay from someones model stash.

I think they are and the Scorpion is a nice wee kit. They take a bit of building so 'modellers only' ;);) but Scorpions were very small tanks and clearance is not an issue on a Warflat either as Turret is very pflat profile. There is an Ebay shop in Dunfermline who sells them

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Just one thing on CVR(T) transport… We always used to put ours in 20’ ISO containers (back it in or you’ll never get out!). These were taken by DROPS lorries to wherever, and when they did go by train, it was in a container. 
 

Paul

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1 hour ago, exet1095 said:

Just one thing on CVR(T) transport… We always used to put ours in 20’ ISO containers (back it in or you’ll never get out!). These were taken by DROPS lorries to wherever, and when they did go by train, it was in a container. 
 

Paul

About as helpful as xxxs on an elephant for those buying war flats ! 

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20 minutes ago, Richard Croft said:

I'm really impressed with the wagons, I had no intention of buying any but after seeing everyones pictures online I decided to get some. I have ordered 4 more today as well. I've loaded mine with various Oxford diecast models. I'm sure there are better options available as kits etc but these certainly look the part to me!

 

 

Richard

Look ok, but a lot of foreign vehicles there I think 

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7 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

According to the boxes they are all British apart from the dingo's which are Irish

Must be from an earlier period , as I don’t recognise them post 1990s, I’m guessing . Still look the part though 

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