Ratio coach kits

[Mick38]

Does anyone have experience of building these kits? I am interested in the GWR 4 wheel coaches, and I am mainly concerned about the painting and finishing. Are the sides moulded in one piece or are there overlays which would greatly simplify the painting?

[Miss Prism]

http://www.gwr.org.uk/proratio.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prow1.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prot36.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prometro.html

 

There's a whole bunch of related stuff on The Farthing Layouts blog, including how to paint panelled stock, but I can't find that entry at the moment.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Miss Prism

[Prometheus]

I generally advise trying to acquire the earliest releases of these kits as is possible, there tends to be far less flash around the fragile chassis sides and the roofs are easier to remove from their sprues. Look for the boxes  without cellophane windows. I think they have Sturminster Newton addresses.

 

Shirescenes also make a large variety of etched brass sides to vary - considerably - the diagrams which can be built. They are easy enough to attach.

 

Painting all depends on your era: fully panelled is possible but a little fiddly. Painting the recessed panels (which are not that deep) is best done by floating in thinned cream after the whole side has been painted brown. If done carefully, capillary action will take the paint to the edge and (hopefully!) no further. You’ll probably have to do this two or three times to end up with the correct density of colour. Happily, I model mid-30s and just mask up and spray!

 

The sides are one piece in answer to that question. So no overlays to simplify painting.

 

Tony

[The Johnster]

Ratio 4 wheelers can still be made up into reasonable running models, but like all Ratio plastic kits some parts are delicate and fiddly; especially the floorboards in this case.  They do not like setrack curves , even no.4, and if they do not derail will lock buffers; I would suggest 2’ radius as a minimum.  IIRC the compo and all third represent actual prototypes, but the brake 3rd doesn’t. 

 

Take your time, clean the parts before you assemble them, and make sure the chassis is square and level.  I have put interiors in mine, which is worth it in terms of general appearance.   Ballasting is essential for reliable running. 

 

I’ve replaced the couplings on mine with the layout standard NEMs using Parkside mounts; the kit tension locks are very poor.  

Edited June 1, 2019 by The Johnster

[RexAshton]

Using these will definitely help the long wheelbase of the 4 wheelers stay on the track. MJT also do replacement buffers that are both finer and stronger. I think 2308 is suitable for the 4 wheelers.

When I built my rake I sprayed the cream first then masked along the waistline and overpainted the chocolate. As mine are in the simpler livery any slight unevenness was hidden by the lining. The ends and droplights were brush painted and the sprayed roofs fitted after the bodies had been varnished and glazed.

[DCB]

I had several of these and found the painting isn't too much of a problem but I never managed to make any run in a satisfactory manner.  They were a set to atch my GW liveried Metro Tank.   We have one 3rd radius curve on a gradient and it defeated them every time, but they didn't like 2ft radius points or being propelled or being at the front of a long train.  Compensated suspension would help but the underframes are very fragile and do not stand up to being handled and the parts like coupling mounts often self destruct.  A Brass strip from coupling mounting to coupling mounting helps but is difficult to retro fit.  They rock alarmingly because it is difficult to add ballast low enough to get the centre of gravity down.  I can't remember if they had compartment walls as standard or if I did them but I remember making seats from lead to add weight, I'm sure they didn't  have flush glazing because I glazed mine with crystal clear DVD case plastic.    Eventually I broke them up and sold the bits on eBay for quite a decent amount of money considering.   They make great line side shacks for 1930s to 1960s era layouts, lot of fun to build and paint, great for P4 or EM conversion, hopeless for the average 00 layout.

[Prometheus]

7 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

 They rock alarmingly because it is difficult to add ballast low enough to get the centre of gravity down.  

 

I apply two 5gr self-adhesive tyre balance weights to the underframe, one at each end. This makes for smooth running without the need for compensation. Metal wheels and brass bearings are an absolute necessity however.

 

Tony  

[DCB]

9 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

 

I apply two 5gr self-adhesive tyre balance weights to the underframe, one at each end. This makes for smooth running without the need for compensation. Metal wheels and brass bearings are an absolute necessity however.

 

Tony  

Which wheels did you use?   I just used the bog standard Ratio wheels and bearings.

[Mikkel]

21 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/proratio.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prow1.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prot36.html

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prometro.html

 

There's a whole bunch of related stuff on The Farthing Layouts blog, including how to paint panelled stock, but I can't find that entry at the moment.

 

 

 

Here's the video (Edit: hmm, Youtube seem to have removed the explanatory text, dunno how useful it is then - but Prometheus has basically explained the process above):

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Mikkel

[Mick38]

Hmmmm.. thank you for your replies. All things considered, I think I’ll pass on these. Too fiddly for my arthritic hands I’m afraid. I like the painting technique though.

[timbowilts]

1 minute ago, Mick38 said:

Hmmmm.. thank you for your replies. All things considered, I think I’ll pass on these. Too fiddly for my arthritic hands I’m afraid. I like the painting technique though.

Why do you think mine will appear in all-over brown for workmen's use 

Tim T

Modelling South Wales branches in EM

[Prometheus]

1 hour ago, DavidCBroad said:

Which wheels did you use?   I just used the bog standard Ratio wheels and bearings.

 

I use bog standard Hornby or Bachmann metal coach disks David [unless I find some Mansell disks that I have overlooked]. The Ratio wheels that come with the kit are best thrown as far down the road as you can: apart from being plastic and too light, they don't run freely enough and, sooner or later, the 'needle point' ends will become quite blunt. Tone the Hornby disks down with an old rust colour [back as well as front centres] and your coaches will look fine and run well.

 

Tony

Edited June 2, 2019 by Prometheus

[The Johnster]

Mine are in BR crimson, correct for some of the last survivors on miner's workmans' in South Wales in the early 50s.  I've replaced the rather feeble Ratio buffers with turned brass, which does no harm when it comes to ballasting, and use Hornby wheels running in top hat bearings.  Propelling around any sort of curve is still a bit fraught, though.  If you are having trouble on plain track, sit the coach on a sheet of glass or a mirror and check that the wheels are level to each other; the coach should not rock at all on a flat surface.  They should run fine on well laid level track then, but are not designed for train set curves.  Compensation units as suggested by RexAshton will improve matters, but mine are ok as they are so long as I keep them away from the tighter radii...

[Compound2632]

On 01/06/2019 at 13:59, The Johnster said:

 IIRC the compo and all third represent actual prototypes, but the brake 3rd doesn’t. 

 

Isn't the 2-compartment brake third T47? - see Penrhos' most informative website. There were only 27 of these if I have read correctly; the 3-compartment brake thirds T34 were far more numerous - 64, plus another 10 to the very similar T36, which is in the Shirescenes range. 

 

For late condition, looks like the duckets were often removed - in which case the diagram number advances by 1!

 

You're not limited to 3 or 4 coach trains with these carriages... https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhs1945.htm

 

[Ravenser]

I've recently finished a total rebuild of one -

Here's One I Made Earlier

 

A second posting finishing the thing off and covering the accompanying Starfish is due as soon as I get round to getting the boards of the layout up for photographic purposes (ie next weekend, as the Kadee ouplings still need to go on the Starfish)

 

I would recommend the MJT compensation etch because this is rather a long wheelbase to get absolutely square as a rigid chassis. When I originally built this as a teenager it wasn't square, and didn't run properly. Weighted up to 75g. But with 3 out of 4 compartments converted to tools - ie empty - that wasn't hard. It shouldn't be difficult to get sheet lead in under the floor between the solebars

 

No real running trials yet, but it definitely sits with all 4 feet on the floor and  as my minimum radius is 2'6 I don't expect any problems on the curvature front. LWB 4-wheelers are rather more demanding in terms of curvature : remember that the Pacers were originally banished from the West Country because they couldn't cope with the curves on the branches

 

As for Prometheus' comment, long ago these kits were supplied with plastic wheelsets and no bearings . The wheelsets were very loose in the holes.  My coach has Hornby disc wheels with MJT whitemetal Mansell inserts in them. Note that the axle running in the etch may be a fraction stiff from friction - apply a drop of oil - and I suppose, wait for running them to wear the hole in the etch a little

 

I've finished mine in engineers' black - Cheona's book on Engineers Coaching Stock shows a composite in good condition on the Cambrian in 1958 as an Electrician's van and another all third, rather scruffier , allocated to Plymouth in I think the same year

Edited June 2, 2019 by Ravenser
I can't spell Prometheus

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the hint about the MJT inserts - I must get some!

 

Tony

[Steamport Southport]

I'm pretty sure they now have metal wheels. Everything else in the Ratio range seem to have.

 

They were among the first "proper" kits that I built when I was a small child about ten. No problems going around train set curves as that was all I had at that time. They were bought as an alternative to the awful Hornby four wheelers. Not much else was available.

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

I started to cut and shut a couple of pairs some years ago into bogie coaches, I think after reading a few posts on here. Easy to do if you use the door lines to hide the joins.

 

I think most plastic kits improve with decent wheels and some weight, too too certain if compensation is best in all cases and often the use of either Hornby or Bachmann metal wheels with their larger flanges are a bit more forgiving

[Siberian Snooper]

19 hours ago, Prometheus said:

 

I use bog standard Hornby or Bachmann metal coach disks David [unless I find some Mansell disks that I have overlooked]. The Ratio wheels that come with the kit are best thrown as far down the road as you can: apart from being plastic and too light, they don't run freely enough and, sooner or later, the 'needle point' ends will become quite blunt. Tone the Hornby disks down with an old rust colour [back as well as front centres] and your coaches will look fine and run well.

 

Tony

 

 

Alan Gibson do Mansell wheels code number 4004.

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/

 

 

[sharris]

On 02/06/2019 at 21:12, Steamport Southport said:

I'm pretty sure they now have metal wheels. Everything else in the Ratio range seem to have.

 

 

The last Ratio wagons I bought had metal wheels - albeit not for the standard I wanted, however the last LNWR coaches I had still had plastic ones. There was a gap of about 3 years between buying the coaches and the wagons, so I suppose it's possible things might have changed since. 

[Nile]

On 03/06/2019 at 07:43, Siberian Snooper said:

 

 

Alan Gibson do Mansell wheels code number 4004.

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/

 

 

These are what come with the kits now.

[Cofga]

So how long did these last on the GWR in branch line use? Wiuld they be appropriate for a later 1930s layout or would the Hornby clerestory stock be better?

[Miss Prism]

Generally, the E140 B-sets appearing in numbers from 1930 swept away the remaining 4-wheelers from branch line use.

 

[melmerby]

If you want to up the variety a bit Shirescenes do brass sides to produce several different variants including a 4 wheel Siphon.

 

And the wheels supplied for these have been Alan Gibson for a few years now.

Edited June 15, 2019 by melmerby

[Il Grifone]

Most of mine have Nucro/Jackson wheels (almost as old as the prototype! )* or Romford Mansell running in brass pin point bearings. Metal wheels are essential and the underframe must be assembled square and/or equalised. The kit wheels and buffers can go straight in the bin!

IIRC the composite is either too long or too short (there are two diagrams and the kit isn't right for either, but I decided life's too short...). Picking the mouldings out in black isn't too difficult (if I can do it...), but either using the 1912 crimson livery or the post 1928 chocolate and cream avoids the problem.

 

* There used to be white metal inserts to convert these to Mansell but I haven't seen any for ages.

K's did white metal kits for a four wheel arc roof third and a six wheel clerestory tri-composite. There are probably still examples to be found. The Ratio kits will need plenty of weight to match.