DJM, the end.

[Edge]

Forgive me for this, but I do find it rather sitasteful that people have gone and looked at the value of Dave’s house on zoopla seemingly in an attempt to nothing but tear the man down even more. What possible use could be made of such invasive enquiries I can’t imagine.

 

This business is now insolvent, any next steps concerning money/crowdfunding refunds/ are totally and utterly out of Dave’s hands, so I do wonder if we can allow him to lick his wounds in peace without publicly speculating on how much of his house’s value went into the business. 

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Heavy inference there that some live ones were

Roy

 

No, I'm far too devoted to my canine companions!

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Edwardian
spelling!

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, Edge said:

Forgive me for this, but I do find it rather sitasteful that people have gone and looked at the value of Dave’s house on zoopla seemingly in an attempt to nothing but tear the man down even more. What possible use could be made of such invasive enquiries I can’t imagine.

 

This business is now insolvent, any next steps concerning money/crowdfunding refunds/ are totally and utterly out of Dave’s hands, so I do wonder if we can allow him to lick his wounds in peace without publicly speculating on how much of his house’s value went into the business. 

 

Indeed, the company and the personal should be kept separate, with the fact that Mr Jones' personal finances are, well, personal, respected.  I very much hope that he will not lose personal assets, but beyond expressing that pious hope, it's an area of potentially intrusive speculation probably best avoided.

[The Pilotman]

Some people need to take a step back and look at where this has got to. Go and run some trains, walk the dog, sit in the garden, have a beer, whatever, but leave this alone for a while. 

[Edwardian]

Just now, Western Aviator said:

Some people need to take a step back and look at where this has got to. Go and run some trains, walk the dog, sit in the garden, have a beer, whatever, but leave this alone for a while. 

 

Play with the dogs in the garden.  Top idea. 

[wombatofludham]

I have my views on the business and activities of DJM as a company, which given they will have all the impact of a snowflake on a concrete bunker, I will keep to myself.  However, my overwhelming sense is one of sadness - sadness for all those who in good faith went in to back crowd funded projects and who now seem likely to be left with nothing to show for it, but also for Dave Jones and his family and social circle, who must be in a very dark and bleak place at the moment.

 

Sadly it looks like the only ones who will come out of this collapse smelling of anything other than ordure will be the liquidators and HMRC.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, DavidH said:

 

That depends how the money was invested in the company? It is a limited company so he would only be liable to what he had invested or guaranteed to the company.

 

If the house wasn't collateral for the company or Dave hadn't taken money out of the company other than as a salary, I think he would only find his house at risk if he or partner were unable to keep paying the mortgage.

 

At least, I hope that is the case.

The micro accounts are obviously not the best sort of information from which to forma clear picture of a company's activities but they do exist and it is to be assumed that the numbers shown are hopefully correct.

 

The company was incorporated on 8 July 2013.  it's first micro accounts covered the year ended 31 July 2014 and show debtors of £1,997, cash in hand/at the bank of £7,851, and amounts falling due to creditors within 1 year at £9,595 with nothing showing for creditors beyond one year.

 

One year later there cash in hand etc figure had been discontinued, but current assets were now shown as £22,022 while creditors due payment within one year was £21,212.  again no. creditors falling due after 1 year.  Obviously by then the accounts were including work in hand hence the much higher figures.

 

At the 2016 date current assets had grown to £27, 946, Pre-payments and accrued income made their first appearance at  £500 while creditors due within one year stood at £18, 316 with none beyond that date.  Oddly the figures for 2015 were different from those shown in the 2015 account despite the fact that the 2015 account had been produced in April 2016, equally two of the 2014 figures were different when shown in the 2015 account.

 

The 2017 account was submitted late and following threat of strike -off.   Fixed assets had rocketed from zero in the previous year to £81,934 and current assets had grown to £56,886 and the 2016 current assets had also been slightly adjusted upwards.  Creditors within one year had grown to £35, 926 and creditors over 1 year made its first appearance with a very round number of £45,000.  The 2018 account showed fixed assets dropping back to £68, 348 (depreciation??) while current assets had grown to £79, 726.  One year creditors had also grown, to £ 65,597 while over 1 year creditors had dropped to £22,333.

 

There are very few things which can be drawn from these numbers except a growth of assets and creditors - the latter presumably including crowd funders but amounting in total over two successive years as to c.£80,00 over a 2 year period which is a lot of money for a small company although below declared asset value.

 

One interesting point is that the early years show very little in the way of creditors which seems to suggest that no mortgage money was ever involved or that if it was it was a relatively small amount

[D9020 Nimbus]

This has to be the tawdriest thread on this site.

 

There's no point in suggesting Andy locks it—on past experience it will be kept running even longer. So I'm doing what I did with the other thread—ignoring it. I suggest anybody else who feels the same, does the same.

[81C]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

A long time ago, when I think RMweb was still owned and paid for by Andy Y, a well-informed member and I were chatting over a pint. The chap had recently met Dave Jones, then firmly a Dapol employee, and had distinct reservations about him. At the very least, he found him 'rum'.

 

It cannot have been much later that a retailer who had commissioned several important projects from Dapol spat his dummy when he found not a lot had been done about them. Soon afterwards Dave Jones emerged, now no longer a Dapol employee, as the man to rescue these lost causes and deal with China etc. In fairness, I think he did so, even if the delivered products didn't all quite hit the heights for every purchaser. So I was prepared to believe his re-invention was a success. Yet after a few years that business relationship foundered, as did that of DJ with another major retailer.

 

Now this.

 

I think my informant knew a thing or two. 

 

 

Ian I believe a few of us had that opinion back then and it wasn't broadcast at the time he was left alone to try and make his business work, you could write a book on the subject now but I'd doubt if you would sell many copies. 

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

In the interest of balance it is worth remembering that another business folded recently taking a significant amount of modellers' deposits with it. Not exactly the same and not crowd funded but still modellers lost serious sums of money.

 

If it is not on the shelf there and then you are taking a punt. Some punts are riskier than others.

 

If you mean LLC yes there was crowd funding involved, mine to the tune of roughly £475, and a lot more people besides.

[Roy Langridge]

Just now, boxbrownie said:

 

If you mean LLC yes there was crowd funding involved, mine to the tune of roughly £475, and a lot more people besides.

 

But just to be clear: LLC has not folded and, as yet, nobody has lost any money.

 

Given that the company is up for sale, rumours that it has folded can do harm and could help lead to people losing money.

Roy

[boxbrownie]

Just now, Roy Langridge said:

 

But just to be clear: LLC has not folded and, as yet, nobody has lost any money.

 

Given that the company is up for sale, rumours that it has folded can do harm and could help lead to people losing money.

Roy

 

You will notice no where did I say LLC has "folded" nor that the money is yet lost, we all keep or fingers crossed a buyer can be found.

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, Roy Langridge said:

But just to be clear: LLC has not folded and, as yet, nobody has lost any money.

 

Given that the company is up for sale, rumours that it has folded can do harm and could help lead to people losing money.

 

This is true. Please do not try to conflate the two situations. There is also a separate LLC thread for those discussions.

[Phil Parker]

7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

 

You will notice no where did I say LLC has "folded" nor that the money is yet lost, we all keep or fingers crossed a buyer can be found.

 

No, but you are splitting hairs. No-one doubted what you are trying to say, and as I said, stop it. 

[MartinTrucks]

Forgive me if I have missed it on this thread, but what tooling did DJ Models 'lose' to the Chinese? I am particularly interested in the fate of that for the LSWR Beattie Well Tank, O2, GWR 14xx etc and the 13xx 0-6-0ST.

Thanks,

Martin

Edited June 7, 2019 by MartinTrucks

[Ravenser]

Just now, MartinTrucks said:

Forgive me if I have missed it on this thread, but what tooling did DJ Models 'lose' to the Chinese? I am particularly interested in the LSWR Beattie Well Tank, O2, GWR 14xx etc and the 13xx 0-6-0ST.

Thanks,

Martin

 

Tooling for an N Gauge Class 17 , for the OO J94 and Class 71 have all been specifically mentioned. It appears that the N gauge Mermaid may have been affected

 

The O2 , 14xx and 1361 tank were all included in DJM's "protective" registration of designs. Those registrations were made over 12 months after release of the models, so are presumably invalid - but they must indicate DJM saw those tools as "theirs" , and feared that parties in the UK would be supplied with models from them by parties in China. 

 

The Beattie Well Tank seems to have been forgotten about by everyone 

[boxbrownie]

14 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

No, but you are splitting hairs. No-one doubted what you are trying to say, and as I said, stop it. 

You never ever told me to “stop it” but fear not, I am not contributing to such a nasty thread again.

[ruggedpeak]

19 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

No, but you are splitting hairs. No-one doubted what you are trying to say, and as I said, stop it. 

Is Andy doing the night shift moddng this thread?!

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Is Andy doing the night shift moddng this thread?!

 

Nope, he's on holiday. Doubtless watching and chuckling from the deck of his superyacht.

[ruggedpeak]

41 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

 

If you mean LLC yes there was crowd funding involved, mine to the tune of roughly £475, and a lot more people besides.

For the record I was not referring to LLC as I am not aware they have gone under/folded. Others have as documented here and elsewhere.

[G-BOAF]

38 minutes ago, MartinTrucks said:

Forgive me if I have missed it on this thread, but what tooling did DJ Models 'lose' to the Chinese? I am particularly interested in the fate of that for the LSWR Beattie Well Tank, O2, GWR 14xx etc and the 13xx 0-6-0ST.

Thanks, 

Martin

 

The BWT was designed by Dapol, with tooling OWNED by KMRC. The second batch was produced by DJM (indicating Kernow moved the tools to them). I think in all cases (I only have first batch models) the model was marked on its bottom side KMRC. Kernow presumably still have the tools they paid for, and the next batch will presumably be made directly by them through a factory.

I had assumed the O2 was the same arrangement at the BWT, with tooling owned by KMRC. Happy to be corrected.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by G-BOAF

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Nope, he's on holiday. Doubtless watching and chuckling from the deck of his superyacht.

 

Go away. 

 

 

I leave you with the keys for a week or two and it's a bomb site.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

This has to be the tawdriest thread on this site.

 

There's no point in suggesting Andy locks it—on past experience it will be kept running even longer. So I'm doing what I did with the other thread—ignoring it. I suggest anybody else who feels the same, does the same.

I disagree.  Look up tawdy in the dictionary.

 

No point explaining why if you are ignoring the thread.

[Darius43]

19 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Go away. 

 

 

I leave you with the keys for a week or two and it's a bomb site.

 

 

Isnt that the ship form the 70s TV series "Barrier Reef"?

 

Cheers

 

Darius (showing his age with this post)

[rope runner]

A sad end. I'm sure nobody wanted this outcome. Then again i'm sure I'll be told otherwise as people pick over the proverbial carcass over the next 15 pages.

 

Paul A.