DJM, the end.

[jonhall]

9 hours ago, Ravenser said:

I recall the comment at the time about the FEA twins was that the OO version was much better than the N gauge one because the criticisms had been picked up.

 

The N gauge FEA twin as I recall has mountings for containers that don't line up with 20ft intervals, as I recall @Lyddrail of this parish had a GA which I scanned and was sent off to Dave for the 4mm version

 

Jon

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

I’ll accept that as an apology. Yourself being one of the most fervent supporters of the brand, I recall the removed (by moderators) libellous posts from yourself regarding my impartiality whilst reviewing DJM products elsewhere.

 

Do you really need to descend to this level  at this time ? I suggest we stop this right now before it gets out of hand.

[Colin_McLeod]

6 minutes ago, njee20 said:

It’s a very random thing to lie about for sure. Exaggerated? Flat lie?

 

Anyway, crack on with the character assassination of a man who’s not here to defend himself!

 

Nothing to stop him coming on here to defend himself, but it is probably wise for him to remain silent at this juncture as any attempts at defence could, I suspect,  turn into a counter productive slanging match.

 

I also would assume that if he has taken any professional advice,  that advice would be to "say nothing".

[Persephone]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

For me, at least, it is interesting in a disturbing sense, to hear what is only now coming out of the woodwork.

 

Mr Jones was very persuasive, or plausible, in setting up his stall and I was among the many persuaded.  My growing disillusionment stems from the fact that, while the message was consistently "this is all wonderful (and can't be questioned or criticised)" it began to seem clear that the business was not capable of delivering promised product to the higher standards claimed, or in a timely manner, or, indeed, at all.  This was certainly true of the product areas that interested me. 

 

The revelation that there was always something "rum" about this supplier, that a previous business failed leaving customers out of pocket, that ill-will was engendered with Dapol etc, etc, adds unpleasant colouring and it must be galling to those who lost money that no hint of this was evident before now.

 

 

Nail hit firmly on head here. No one but no one was allowed to say anything perceived as negative, which is why now all of a sudden the dirty washing is appearing, and people are questioning "why wasn't I aware of that before". In actual fact it was there, but you had to look very hard for it in various places. This isn't character assassination after the event, its a repressed truth which inevitably emerges once the protections are gone. The question people should have been asking is how and why Jones created a firewall around himself.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Persephone
insertion of quotation marks

[njee20]

I disagree, there’s been plenty of negativity on all of his threads for years, literally, with people pointing out the issues. Read the 92 thread and the APT thread. There were loads of people burying heads in the sand, or dismissing the opinion of those who wouldn’t back Dave as invalid, because they’d not invested. You didn’t have to go looking for this, it was on all his product threads. 

 

He attracted a handful of people who just trolled threads, MGR Hooper and Great Western seem to delight in just popping up on all his threads saying “he’s a crook” and nothing else, but a lot of people had warned of the genuine concerns for as long as I can remember. 

[PMP]

11 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

Do you really need to descend to this level  at this time ? I suggest we stop this right now before it gets out of hand.

 

Like I said I’ll accept your earlier post as an apology for the libellous comments (which I have screen printed copies of), which you made three years back. 

So yes best left alone, we agree for once.

[PhilH]

This thread has descended beyond pointless now in my opinion. Just more hot air to add to global warming....

[Legend]

3 hours ago, Amand said:

 

To quote my music teacher from my end of year report "His enthusiasm is severely limited by his ability!"

 

Quote of the week I think. And perfectly sums up situation. 

 

Quite a few things coming out now about previous activities DJ .  He is a busted flush when it comes to model railways 

[PMP]

5 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

and I recall you from over 5 years back...…..youre a real nice piece of work aren't you fella?

 

Thanks for the compliment. However  there will undoubtedly be many that feel I’m not the best example of the species, me included.

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, njee20 said:

He attracted a handful of people who just trolled threads, MGR Hooper and Great Western seem to delight in just popping up on all his threads saying “he’s a crook” and nothing else, but a lot of people had warned of the genuine concerns for as long as I can remember. 

Did not know that 15 out of almost a 100 threads on the DJM Sub-Forum was considered as all the threads. And I'm sorry, I took no delight in it. The last thing I got from posting on a DJM thread was delight.

When I saw an issue, I made it known. I didn't troll the man the way he's been a troll himself....So kindly keep your silly assumptions to yourself.

Edited June 9, 2019 by MGR Hooper!

[The Pilotman]

You guys still not done yet? Surely at least some of you must have wives you can argue with instead. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Western Aviator

[griffgriff]

I think some of you need to take a long hard look at your workbenches!

 

.... including me

 

Griff

[Legend]

38 minutes ago, Wheres_Wally said:

 

It would take months of work and at least one trip to China to write the full story. Even if anyone did put in that investment, the DJ fanbois would say it was too cruel and the DJ haters that it was too soft.

 

Model Railway mags don’t tend to go beyond the surface of model railways . I agree I think such an article would be fascinating , along with ones on Hornby, particularly the Frank Martin years and legacy, and Bachmann since their 25 anniversary . But the mags don’t seem to go beyond layout articles , reviews . What manufacturer articles there are tend to read like press releases and be about future plans drawing a line over past activities.

[newbryford]

Popcorn is being consumed at a faster than normal rate...…..

 

(And I don't like popcorn)

Edited June 9, 2019 by newbryford

[John M Upton]

Looks like this thread is heading for a locking...

 

Before it does however, my first experience of Dave was the exquisite OO Scale Dapol Class 52 Western which is still in my opinion one of the best locos I ever owned.

 

So I was somewhat surprised when he jumped ship from Dapol although the seemingly swift and unexpected nature of his departure did raise an eyebrow here in a 'Did he jump or was he pushed?' way.

 

I have never been one for the 'Never Never' as it used to be called so did not venture into any up front payment schemes but did buy a J94 and a Kernow 02, both of which performed well as I was happy with them.

 

When I moved into N gauge more recently I took a Mermaid into stock and took a great interest in the Class 17 and the Shark, subsequently placing preorders with a retailer for them.

 

It was when the seemingly almost completed and ready to produce Class 17 suddenly disappeared from the horizon amid a fog of nonsense explanations that I started having concerns.

 

Then Dave disappeared altogether from RMWeb and the subsequent silence to me was deafening.

 

Dave began to strike me as one of those people who only have too reactions to criticism, either pull up the shutters and ignore everyone with fingers in ears saying Wibble or 'Do a (Chris) Grayling' and start loudly blaming everyone for their problems except themself.

 

I didn't join in the generally growing criticism of DJM that began to mount up as I did not have sufficient evidence on which to base any conclusions (I was completely unaware of his past history pre Dapol, if I had I would have taken a very different view).

 

Once that inflammatory announcement of May 1st appeared however it became clear to me that here was a individual who quite frankly had lost the plot big time and from then on as investors were scrambling for the lifeboats and the ship sank fast from its self imposed torpedo hits, I could see it only going one way, down in flames.

 

I cancelled those preorders as it was clear to me they were never coming now no matter how much positive spin some tried to put on it and thus only hope that those Mermaids and Sharks might appear one day in a different coloured box and that Dave never darkens the door of this industry ever again.

[Pete 75C]

5 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Popcorn is being consumed...…..

 

It's a bit early for popcorn. I have some toast and marmalade.

Seriously, this thread, in the absence of any facts, is starting to get nasty.

 

[Phil Parker]

10 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Model Railway mags don’t tend to go beyond the surface of model railways . I agree I think such an article would be fascinating , along with ones on Hornby, particularly the Frank Martin years and legacy, and Bachmann since their 25 anniversary . But the mags don’t seem to go beyond layout articles , reviews . What manufacturer articles there are tend to read like press releases and be about future plans drawing a line over past activities.

 

That's because people, especially those who are proud to say they never buy magazines, don't want to pay the sort of money it costs to research and write that sort of in-depth article. 

[classy52]

6 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Popcorn is being consumed at a faster than normal rate...…..

 

(And I don't like popcorn)

 

I've run out but just about to pop off to Costco for some more of those big bags 

[Legend]

2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

That's because people, especially those who are proud to say they never buy magazines, don't want to pay the sort of money it costs to research and write that sort of in-depth article. 

 

Oh I buy plenty of magazines , including bookazines , but you are correct it would need to be properly researched 

[KDG]

I can't imagine anything less interesting in any railway magazine than an indepth  article about why DJM has failed....

 

(I'm almost at the point where this thread is getting dull, so I'll look away for a while)

 

I wouldn't buy that issue, that's  my choice.

 

Much rather see railway modelling articles with some objective reviews of new products included.

[John M Upton]

I'm putting the kettle on and fetching more biscuits...

[Matt C]

Still rumbling along   Even war and peace came to an end eventually   (Tolstoy's Mrs told him to put the b@%&y pen down and get to bed)  I'm thinking of getting the program that checks large essays for plagiarism, I never knew you could  regurgitate the same information, in so many forms in so many long winded essays. I'm now off to do some blue sky thinking, plucking random numbers out of the air and coming up with a long winded definitive answer on just how many thousands of modelling hours have been lost by members (sub divided into those just following, those participating, and of course those who do both) with graphs and spreadsheets and things of course then divided across all scales and. . . . . Actually no, think I'll just walk the dog then go do some work on the layout   

[brittannia]

2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Strange.....

 

Unless of course the PayPal saga was just a made up story upon realising the magnitude of PayPal fees when  a few hundred people pay in three figure sums.  Purely speculation on my part. but now I am wondering if the "refunds and re pay by other means" was designed to avoid PayPal fees.  If so it backfired as it gave people the opportunity to drop out, coming as it did at more or less the same time that it took ages to submit micro accounts to avoid striking off. 

 

Maybe I am wrong as it is also possible that to protect privacy PayPal were not going to give out personal information to Britannia.

I have replied to the above and it seems the posting has been split

Edited June 9, 2019 by brittannia
missing files

[Phil Parker]

All this is just proving that model railways are incredibly tribal. Red boxers, blue boxers, purple boxers, it's like a rerun of the Sinclair vs Commodore arguments we had when I was at school.

 

Does it help? No. So knock it off. 

[philiprporter]

Despite the length of this thread and the diversions off topic, it's been an eye opener for me so thank you to those who have given more background than I would ever have been able to glean unless I had a month of Sunday's free to browse historical threads!

 

I accept I was caught up in the hype and spin and was naive and guilable when I ordered my APT, but in some ways it's helpful to know that I'm far from alone in my enthusiasm overtaking my common sense and reading the whole thread has genuinely been an education in terms of not making the same mistakes again-so yes there has been hot air but also much that has been useful and helpful-and Im always slightly bemused why people don't hit the big red 'ignore this topic' button or the 'report this post button' rather than calling for threads to be locked? Dont threads die a natural death after a while anyway so nobody gets hurt except the mods who have the unenviable task of monitoring and then removing inappropriate content?