DJM, the end.

[Barry Ten]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

No, the Stove R was for Hornby magazine - nothing to do with the topic in hand.

 

True, Phil, but it was produced when Hornby magazine was under Ian Allan ownership and retailed through their shops, which is how I came by mine. And it was made under Dave Jones' tenure at Dapol - see, for instance, him chipping in here to counter criticism of the model:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57394-stove-r-in-00/

 

So not entirely nothing to do with the topic in hand.

[Vistisen]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

It is funny you should say that Colin, as those were my thoughts at the time. 

 

One of the first things you need to do when starting up a business is sort your banking out, I know of a few who didn't, as being accustomed  to free personal banking they baulked at the idea of paying business banking fees and tried to run their business from their personal accounts. Banks aren't stupid and will eventually realise this and make you open a business account. 

What I always found odd about that sitiuation, is that if DJM's bankers knew he was a 'designer' working with an offshore production company and receiving multiple deposits and part payments they would automatically have offered him a means to accept payment by card etc. And yet when the Paypal debacle started he had no other means of accepting payment in place,  at the very least he could have accepted payment by BACS but instead there was the long winded process of waiting for Lloyds to put in place their Clicksafe payment portal. 

The opinion I formed was that DJM had been running everything from his personal accounts and either Paypal figured this out and wouldn't allow it or that the  option to change to a business footing was an increase in the fees. Seeing that a refund of the amounts would also mean a refund of fees, I thought that DJM had taken the nuclear option to refund monies but had not figured that an action such as this would mean a loss of confidence and a failure to resubscribe. All of these were probably coupled to an undersubscribed project which should have been halted.  

 

 From PayPals own page:

 

"Once you have provided information regarding your campaign and are approved, we welcome you to raise money for:

New product development, like video games, movies, or new gadgets."

 

https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/lifecycle/crowdfunding-uk/

Edited June 9, 2019 by Vistisen

[Vistisen]

6 hours ago, PMP said:

 

@Markwj

 

Please note that the original query re this claim was raised within a day of the publication, six years ago in 2013, by me, because it indicated a huge plausibility and believability issue in the companies claim. In this thread there has been much hand wringing of how 'we' missed red flags regarding elements of the DJM operation.

A bit more context for you. At the time I worked for MRM in London Kings Cross in my early twenties. We had a huge number of younger customers, those are likely now in their 40's. The shops and clubs at that time we were the 'social media' of the time. A national competition from No10, would surely have been high profile. My brother similar age and his compatriots were plastic kit modellers, and bought Scale Models/Airfix Magazine/Military Modeller, their magazine equivalents. None of those I've asked either in 2013 or subsequently recall this event. Some that I have asked are at the very top of the UK 'kit' hobby. Whilst there have been many views of this thread, and the original 2013 one, no-one has said I recall that, or something vaguely similar.

 

I'd suggest that if my suspicion is true that a national Prime Ministers Young Modeller competition didn't exist, then the low blow was struck by a false claim on the originators web site.

 

To end on a positive note if this claim is significantly substantiated, I will make an apology here, and by means of a cheque forwarded via the BRM editorial office donate £100 to the Railway Children charity.

So it has to be

National Prime Ministers Young Modeller competition for 1982

Proof of advertising, eg mag/club media

We find five other entrants, any field of modelling.

Award given by Mrs T at No10 validated by the No10 appointments diary. This is available under the FOI act for non classified data. Its a hard copy document.

I think you'll be keeping your money. Googling 'Thatchers Young Modellers competition 1982' returns interesting results, but no railways

['CHARD]

26 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

 I had the penultimate one and a blue for prosperity! 

 

Prosperity?  

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Prosperity?  

 

Check out eBay in 5 years time: "RARE DJM Class 71!!!"

[Oldddudders]

26 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

True, Phil, but it was produced when Hornby magazine was under Ian Allan ownership and retailed through their shops, which is how I came by mine. And it was made under Dave Jones' tenure at Dapol - see, for instance, him chipping in here to counter criticism of the model:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57394-stove-r-in-00/

 

So not entirely nothing to do with the topic in hand.

So even then "The Prince of Denial"!

[spamcan61]

47 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

In other news, last call for the Class 71 E5015 Golden Arrow at Hattons. 1left, I had the penultimate one and a blue for prosperity! 

Must admit I'm tempted; it looks very nice; but seeing as I'm getting to the point of building a little roundy roundy layout with my son, and actually want to run trains,  I think the Hornby one would be a better bet.

[Hroth]

14 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Check out eBay in 5 years time: "RARE DJM Class 71!!!"

 

It'll be later this year, RARE DJM XXX*! Buy now for Xmas!!! 

On the day the insolvency was announced, Hattons rapidly sold out of the last DJM J94s thay had in stock, though the 14xxs still seem to be hanging around.

 

I got a weathered green DJM 71 from Kernow over 6 months ago at a bargain price,  don't think I'll be ebaying it any time soon!

Do you think an OO71-097 will be rare enough?

 

* Insert RARE! DJM model of your choice here!

[miles73128]

41 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Must admit I'm tempted; it looks very nice; but seeing as I'm getting to the point of building a little roundy roundy layout with my son, and actually want to run trains,  I think the Hornby one would be a better bet.

Yes, Hornby 71 is a way better performer. Ive 5 Hornby and 5 DJ now. 

[vaughan45]

38 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

On the day the insolvency was announced, Hattons rapidly sold out of the last DJM J94s thay had in stock, though the 14xxs still seem to be hanging around.

 

Strange, when I checked the Hatton's website minutes ago they still appear to have some stock of both new and secondhand DJM J94s and are still inviting pre-orders for new OO J94 releases and the N gauge version,

 

Definitely a case of caveat emptor, 

[classy52]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Check out eBay in 5 years time: "RARE DJM Class 71!!!"

 

Not 5 years right now, It's still there...oh geez Steve why did you go there 

[Markwj]

9 minutes ago, vaughan45 said:

Strange, when I checked the Hatton's website minutes ago they still appear to have some stock of both new and secondhand DJM J94s and are still inviting pre-orders for new OO J94 releases and the N gauge version,

 

Definitely a case of caveat emptor, 

Just looked in the bargains at hattons and they have over 10 of the green and blue Class 71 and you can still preorder a 92 if you want!

[Amand]

I'm surprised that Hattons are still showing DJM locos that have been publicly cancelled ages ago. It's not as if they're snowed under listing a big delivery of new Bachmann stock 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Amand
Typoo

[brack]

31 minutes ago, Markwj said:

you can still preorder a 92 if you want!

Last chance to hand over some cash so you too can tell future generations you were there, you too got ripped off by DJM. After all, this is the event of the decade, like Woodstock for model railway disappointment.

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, brack said:

Last chance to hand over some cash so you too can tell future generations you were there, you too got ripped off by DJM. After all, this is the event of the decade, like Woodstock for model railway disappointment.

 

As has been said before more than once on this thread, the website isn't taking money.

[spamcan61]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As has been said before more than once on this thread, the website isn't taking money.

Looks like you can still pre-order pretty much any DJM 'forthcoming' model via the Hatton's website though - OK I chickened out at the payment stage but it's happy to add them to my shopping basket.

 

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Looks like you can still pre-order pretty much any DJM 'forthcoming' model via the Hatton's website though - OK I chickened out at the payment stage but it's happy to add them to my shopping basket. 

 

I'd be confident this is a short-term issue and any monies taken will be refunded ASAP. The poster was referring to the DJM website.

[Caledonian]

58 minutes ago, vaughan45 said:

Strange, when I checked the Hatton's website minutes ago they still appear to have some stock of both new and secondhand DJM J94s and are still inviting pre-orders for new OO J94 releases and the N gauge version,

 

Definitely a case of caveat emptor, 

 

Perhaps the failure to update the website has something to do with this being Sunday?

[Markwj]

11 hours ago, Markwj said:

Just looked in the bargains at hattons and they have over 10 of the green and blue Class 71 and you can still preorder a 92 if you want!

Sorry should have been clear the 92 is available on the hattons site. Obviously they don't ask for payment before the product arrives so no financial risk if you order one but it will never arrive!

Edited June 10, 2019 by Markwj

[Persephone]

All this talk of flogging on "Rare" DJH has got me thinking. Last Xmas in the Hattons bargain clearance sale I picked up a DJM J94 going for a song. Basically I wanted the body for an EM Gauge industrial layout that I have about to come in build. The intention is re chassis / wheel / motor and gearbox it, as Black and Decker Boy referred to many posts earlier. Well you have to, in its current guise it runs like a 3 legged dog sh*tt*g peach pits, its the worst piece of mechanical design I've ever seen in my life. But now I'm wondering should I not bother and stick it on Flea Bay and make a profit. Then again maybe not, even as a rare model its tainted and I'd probably get less than I paid for it. Far better I suppose to have that rare bird, a DJM model that actually runs sweetly even though I did make half of it myself. 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, vaughan45 said:

Strange, when I checked the Hatton's website minutes ago they still appear to have some stock of both new and secondhand DJM J94s and are still inviting pre-orders for new OO J94 releases and the N gauge version,

 

If they're LNER or British Railways then they're J94s, otherwise they're Austerities!

 

The sad invitations for pre-orders on the Hattons website will surely vanish in the next few days.  As for the class 71s, the ones Hattons have are nowhere near bargain-basement as the one I got from Kernow at the end of last year!

[truffy]

18 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

The poster was referring to the DJM website.

Au contraire, I believe that the poster was referring to Hattons.

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, truffy said:

Au contraire, I believe that the poster was referring to Hattons.

 

Even if true, if this is an attempt to suggest Hattons are going to rip people off, then it's not going to fly. Their website needs updating, but it was late last week when we were sure exactly what was happening. I'm sure that any orders will be refunded and the site updated ASAP.

[vaughan45]

16 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

 

Perhaps the failure to update the website has something to do with this being Sunday?

The London Gazette entry was published on Thursday evening, so I would have thought all pre-ordered listings for a company in liquidation would have been removed on Friday or Saturday. Also Hatton's trade 7 days per week, so Sunday would is a trading day for them - although their trading hours is definitely off-topic.

 

9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

If they're LNER or British Railways then they're J94s, otherwise they're Austerities!

 

The sad invitations for pre-orders on the Hattons website will surely vanish in the next few days.  As for the class 71s, the ones Hattons have are nowhere near bargain-basement as the one I got from Kernow at the end of last year!

Point taken, although the pre-ordered listings for LNER & BR versions are still there.

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, vaughan45 said:

The London Gazette entry was published on Thursday evening, so I would have thought all pre-ordered listings for a company in liquidation would have been removed on Friday or Saturday. Also Hatton's trade 7 days per week, so Sunday would is a trading day for them - although their trading hours is definitely off-topic.

 

Trading yes. Updating the website other than stock control (which is automatic) maybe not. You may work 7 days a week, I certainly seem to, but maybe not everyone does.

 

And Hattons is now officially off-topic and posts will be deleted.