Crowdfunding: Reclaim via Credit Card

[Crepello]

Santander are refunding my £67.50 to my credit card for the King deposit; they were happy with Dave's e-mail receipt and the card statement as evidence.

[BR(S)]

Just spoken to my credit card provider (Mastercard through Halifax) and they will be refunding my APT payment of £162.49. This was done by requesting a chargeback rather than through Section 75.

 

As others have reported, they told me the chargeback could be disputed, but said it was unlikely as DJM has gone into liquidation.

 

Based on info on here, I decided to just focus on the APT refund rather than including the £90 I paid for three 92s. I will stick with that decision and consider the £90 to be the cost of a valuable lesson!

[Colin_McLeod]

19 minutes ago, BR(S) said:

 

 

Based on info on here, I decided to just focus on the APT refund rather than including the £90 I paid for three 92s. I will stick with that decision and consider the £90 to be the cost of a valuable lesson!

 

As you have successfully established the principle with your bank with the APT refund, I am at a loss to understand why you woukd not ask for the £90 as well.

[BR(S)]

5 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

As you have successfully established the principle with your bank with the APT refund, I am at a loss to understand why you woukd not ask for the £90 as well.

 

The 92s are outside of the timeframe for a chargeback, even with the 540 days. The payment via PayPal is likely to exclude a Section 75. I realise it's always worth trying, but to be honest the whole process has been quite tiresome.

[Colin_McLeod]

IMHO the clock starts when you learnt that DJM had gone into liquidation as only then did it become clear that you would not be getting a 92

[BR(S)]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

IMHO the clock starts when you learnt that DJM had gone into liquidation as only then did it become clear that you would not be getting a 92

 

I will probably send the request in once I've had some time away from the whole thing. It hasn't helped that for various reasons, I had to send all the information to the credit card disputes people four times. On one occasion, their own secure e-mail system wouldn't send messages, even if they were text only. 

 

I would like to thank those on here who have helped with process.

[PeteB]

Great info on this thread - so I'm just about to contact Tesco credit card about getting a refund of my £60 depost for 2xClass92.

 

I have my invoice from DJM, and the various newletters etc, what I can't find is anything that shows what the full price of the Class 92 was, as evidence that the goods I was ordering were priced at over £100.  The DJM website no longer shows this. Does anyone have a screenshot or document that shows this?

 

Thanks,

 

[Ryde-on-time]

18 minutes ago, PeteB said:

Great info on this thread - so I'm just about to contact Tesco credit card about getting a refund of my £60 depost for 2xClass92.

 

I have my invoice from DJM, and the various newletters etc, what I can't find is anything that shows what the full price of the Class 92 was, as evidence that the goods I was ordering were priced at over £100.  The DJM website no longer shows this. Does anyone have a screenshot or document that shows this?

 

Thanks,

 

 

I hope this link works, the page shows the full price of £130 as the bottom of the Description

 

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5_z8XWEM8_UJ:https://djmodels.co.uk/product/class-92-electric-locomotive+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[viscount]

On 26/07/2019 at 15:19, PeteB said:

Great info on this thread - so I'm just about to contact Tesco credit card about getting a refund of my £60 depost for 2xClass92.

 

I have my invoice from DJM, and the various newletters etc, what I can't find is anything that shows what the full price of the Class 92 was, as evidence that the goods I was ordering were priced at over £100.  The DJM website no longer shows this. Does anyone have a screenshot or document that shows this?

 

Thanks,

 

My refund arrived in my Tesco CC account today seven days after they rang and said I had been successful. Make sure you have spoken to the liquidators as they emailed me the document that I had to print and send to Tesco Bank, it's taken me a few weeks to sort out. I rang in to Tesco Bank and told them of the problem, they rang back after a couple of weeks and asked me to email my stuff in then I didn't hear anything for about another three weeks until a letter arrived basically asking for the same information again! By the time I had printed everything off it filled an A5 envelope , I stuck the Tesco Freepost envelope too this and within a week I had a phone call to say I had been successful.

Edited July 27, 2019 by viscount
Added Text

[PeteB]

Thanks for the link and info - I've save the cached web page as pdf and as screenshot.  I spoke to Tesco bank and at first they tried to rebuff me, based on the amount less than £100 and on how long ago the payment was and the fact that it was a Paypal payment.  But based on people's experiences and advice on here  I persisted on all points, particularly on the Paypal thing as, AFAICS, Paypal are no more an intermediary than the usual CC acquirer relationship to the merchant (I wonder if anybody has tested that in court yet?).  In the end they said they would process it as chargeback rather than section 75 and asked me to email in the various documents (DJM receipt, newletters to show the order was still active etc) so we'll see what happens next. 

[7APT7]

Hi All

 

I have managed to get a Full Refund on my Capital One Card after answering several questions, and directing them to DJM website, seem to be all they needed to refund my deposit back. Regards to my Nationwide Card, I am having to do a lot of the leg work myself compared to Capital One, but I have done all that Nationwide Card as asked me to provide and I am waiting feedback, a phone call later on may shed I bit more light on what is happening.

 

fingers crossed I should have the same out come as my Capital One Card.

 

Regards

JS  

[Talltim]

I understand that section 75 refunds come from your CC provider. In the case of chargebacks (that aren’t disputed) do they come out of DJMs account/(possibly unauthorised) overdraft? If so every time the liquidators help you they are making it even less unlikely they will get paid!

[woodenhead]

44 minutes ago, Talltim said:

I understand that section 75 refunds come from your CC provider. In the case of chargebacks (that aren’t disputed) do they come out of DJMs account/(possibly unauthorised) overdraft? If so every time the liquidators help you they are making it even less unlikely they will get paid!

They will most likely come out of DJM's merchant's bank not DJMs bank which will be frozen, they will then be unsecured creditors too.

[Colin_McLeod]

I got a welcome phone call today from First Trust Bank to advise me that their chargeback section will be crediting my account £248.99. Usual statement about the 45 days for supplier to challenge.

 

My bank said that they would now claim this sum from DJM, so it looks like the list of creditors will include the value of crowdfunders deposits irrespective of how they appear or don't appear in DJM accounts.

 

Now Mr Jones, I am financially back where I was before I fell for your marketing nonsense.

 

This refund goes a long way to funding the £350  that I spent on Hornby APTs for my 10 car cut and shut project.

 

Best wishes to others; put in your claim to your bank. My evidence consisted of my order for APT, and the liquidators letter to creditors.

 

 

[truffy]

Great result, Colin.

 

I cannot help but think that the major financial institutions make more experienced and effective creditors that 'the little guys'!

Edited July 29, 2019 by truffy

[woodenhead]

Just now, truffy said:

Great result, Colin.

 

I cannot help but think that the major financial institutions make a more experienced and persistent creditor that 'the little guys'!

No they don't, they get the same back in the £ as everyone else, but they can afford to write it off more than the little guy can.

 

Maybe if the banks had looked at what it was he was doing and tested his business before letting him take credit card payments then maybe they wouldn't not be writing sums off.  At least Paypal saw what he was doing went against their rules and closed his access to the monies before he spent it all.

[Crewlisle]

I applied to Tesco Credit Card for a refund of my 25% deposit of £162-49 for a 5 car APT on the 18th June under Section 75.  I received my credit card bill today and noticed it was credited back to my account under 'Purchase Adjustment' on the 10th July but I would sooner have the APT!

 

Do I have to inform the liquidators?

 

Peter

[Colin_McLeod]

21 hours ago, Crewlisle said:

 

Do I have to inform the liquidators?

 

Peter

 

Glad to hear that you got your money back.

 

 

Re your question. if you have already registered as a creditor then you should let them know. In the unlikely event that there is a payout, you should not be part of that as you have now been "paid in full."  There is a chance that the liquidators will be told anyway by your credit card company when they themselves register as a creditor. 

 

If your CC has said that they are allowing DJM a period of time to challenge the refund I would wait until that time has passed just in case.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Colin_McLeod
typos

[Ed-farms]

Not commented on this yet but as a fellow failed customer of DJ Models who might have different experiences which I will share.  I entered into a claim back as I paid by debit card for 2 Kings, my problem was heightened by the fact that sicne the deposit was paid (August 2018) and DJ Models folding (June 2019) I switched banks from TSB to Halifax purely because Halifax offered cash to switch. As my dispute was with a charge on my TSB account I phoned them and explained the situation, they told me to email some details which I did -  they accepted the details and contacted his bank  who had 35 days to respond. I kept chasing during this period to make sure it was not forgotten about and chased more after the deadline, last week I was told by email my case was found in my favour so I am now awaiting on the switchers team sending the money over - but they didn't say when it would be transferred.

 

So if you have switched banks since the demise don't be afraid to contact your old bank as they do seem to help

[Damo666]

Well, it's taken from 4th June to today to get the situation resolved to my satisfaction, and more.

 

As per the first post here, I made my claim to Lloyds Bank to reclaim my £30 deposit on my CC on 4th June.

 

I chased Lloyds on 20th June as I had not heard anything back, and was told over the phone that they would not be refunding me as I was out-of-time, being over 540 days from the date of the transaction. I challenged this stating that I was only aware that I would not be receiving the model on 4th June 2019 and therefore I could not have claimed any earlier. I was asked to send any supporting info via email and they would review. (My post here on 20th outlines that discussion).

 

Still no response, I again chased Lloyds on 15th July annoyed that I hadn't heard anything and I've had to chase them once again. Very helpful chap looked into the case, saw that the bank made an error in entering a wrong date somewhere which caused my claim to be dismissed, apologised and said that unfortunately I would have to claim again as the system would not allow him to change any details on the errant claim.

Then, to my surprise he said that the bank would offer me £40 goodwill for their error and enquired as to how long I have been on the phone to the bank to get this resolved, both on 20th June and today. My mobile phone log was able to give him the duration of the calls, so he said that the bank have a calculation to compensate for my time, and that this would be an additional £14.

 

Today I've been told that my dispute has been resolved, and that, "whilst my claim would have been out of time, due to the company going into liquidation the bank can extend the timeframe as the company cannot fulfil the order". There was something about an off-line chargeback and I will get my deposit refunded in 3 days.

 

So, I'll be refunded my original £30 deposit, (an amount I had mentally written off at the beginning of this year when all I was hearing were stories and no real material progress)

Received £40 goodwill from the bank, and

£14 for my time chasing them.

 

I'm off now to the Irish guys to spend my money.

[BWsTrains]

18 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

Well, it's taken from 4th June to today to get the situation resolved to my satisfaction, and more.

 

As per the first post here, I made my claim to Lloyds Bank to reclaim my £30 deposit on my CC on 4th June.

 

I chased Lloyds on 20th June as I had not heard anything back, and was told over the phone that they would not be refunding me as I was out-of-time, being over 540 days from the date of the transaction. I challenged this stating that I was only aware that I would not be receiving the model on 4th June 2019 and therefore I could not have claimed any earlier. I was asked to send any supporting info via email and they would review. (My post here on 20th outlines that discussion).

 

Still no response, I again chased Lloyds on 15th July annoyed that I hadn't heard anything and I've had to chase them once again. Very helpful chap looked into the case, saw that the bank made an error in entering a wrong date somewhere which caused my claim to be dismissed, apologised and said that unfortunately I would have to claim again as the system would not allow him to change any details on the errant claim.

Then, to my surprise he said that the bank would offer me £40 goodwill for their error and enquired as to how long I have been on the phone to the bank to get this resolved, both on 20th June and today. My mobile phone log was able to give him the duration of the calls, so he said that the bank have a calculation to compensate for my time, and that this would be an additional £14.

 

Today I've been told that my dispute has been resolved, and that, "whilst my claim would have been out of time, due to the company going into liquidation the bank can extend the timeframe as the company cannot fulfil the order". There was something about an off-line chargeback and I will get my deposit refunded in 3 days.

 

So, I'll be refunded my original £30 deposit, (an amount I had mentally written off at the beginning of this year when all I was hearing were stories and no real material progress)

Received £40 goodwill from the bank, and

£14 for my time chasing them.

 

I'm off now to the Irish guys to spend my money.

 

Which only goes to show that every cloud has a silver lining.

 

I'm the honorary recipient of a long standing "Gold Dust" award from good friend who 50 years ago reckoned that "if BW fell in a sewer he'd come up covered in Gold Dust". Good on you for persistence I say, you got your reward.

 

PS; I guess this helps explain the usurious rates folk pay for their debt on CCs; they fund the Banks' risks on the other side of transactions.

 

BWsTrains

Edited August 2, 2019 by BWsTrains
afterthought

[Damo666]

25 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Which only goes to show that every cloud has a silver lining.

 

I'm the honorary recipient of a long standing "Gold Dust" award from good friend who 50 years ago reckoned that "if BW fell in a sewer he'd come up covered in Gold Dust". Good on you for persistence I say, you got your reward.

 

BWsTrains

Well, I've tried to instil into my children that it's never over until you get the answer you want, and never take no for an answer. Challenge everything you are not happy with until either (1) you get what you feel is the right outcome (NB: not necessarily your outcome, don't be arrogant, but the right outcome) or (2) you have a complete understanding of the situation from the other side and accept that they are been reasonable. You'll often find that the other side hides behind 'rules and processes' designed to suit them, but in reality they are there to be challenged.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Damo666
Typo

[7APT7]

Hi All, Regards to PAYPAL and those who paid there Deposit through PayPal.

 

I have read several times that those who paid with PayPal, have no come back and therefore writing the deposit money off as lost, sadly.

 

On PayPal's Website under Buyer Protection

States: If your eligible purchase doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, we can reimburse you.

 

I know this does not apply to me as I paid directly on a Credit Cards, but surely from what it says on PayPal... If your eligible purchase doesn’t arrive.

Then surely there must be some comeback as the purchase as not arrived and therefore a valid refund...!?!

 

Is there any help for those who have paid via PayPal

I would be interested to hear from ones on here as regards to what PayPal of said and what protection is covered.

 

Also on PayPal's Website under: Refunds

If an order doesn't arrive or match the description, we'll reimburse the full cost of eligible purchases and paid delivery costs (where applicable).

 

Is the issue because the APT-P was not paid in Full and only 25% deposit was paid, that its not classed as a FULLY PAID product that the 'If an order doesn't arrive' does this not count as a valid purchase then...?

Purely trying to help our APT-P Buyers to try and get some kind of comeback...!

(as I have said I didn't pay via PayPal so doesn't apply to me personally) 

 

Regards

Jamie

Edited August 3, 2019 by 7APT7

[Colin_McLeod]

If I had paid by PayPal I would put in a claim to PayPal using the argument that I had a contract to make four instalments. Having paid the first instalment the supplier went into liquidation. Thus the model will never be supplied and Paypal's refund should kick in.  The contract has been frustrated by the liquidation.  The customer is denied the ability to pay the remaining instalments and the company will not be making and supplying the item.

 

Nothing to lose by claiming against Paypal and arguing your case.

[njee20]

I understand the issue with PayPal was the time elapsed since the payment was made. I’d employ the same argument that the ‘clock’ should start from the date it became apparent the item wouldn’t be delivered, ie the date DJM instructed CG.