Crowdfunding: Reclaim via Credit Card

[Crepello]

Santander say minimum claim is £100, so no good for King deposit £67.50.

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, Crepello said:

Santander say minimum claim is £100, so no good for King deposit £67.50.

For Section 75 it is the total value not the deposit that determines the cut off for claiming.

 

I'd go back and try again with them and reiterate it was only the deposit, the full price of the item is £x which is above the statutory minimum.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 11/06/2019 at 12:57, woodenhead said:

Sounds like where they know a CC was used they are directing you to the place where you are most likely going to be refunded.

 

5 hours ago, wellseasoned said:

I still haven't received anything in the post  from CG&Co., has anybody else ?
 

Are we expected to print the proof of debt form that Colin kindly attached to his email, complete it and post this to our Credit card companies?  (I always thought that stuff of a legal nature needed to be posted with a signature when received)

Sorry readers to seem a tad thick here, but after speaking to a chap at CG&Co and emailing him my D.J, receipt I'm here waiting for forms in the post from them.
I doubt I'm the only one unclear what is supposed to be happening with this, can somebody put me/us out of my confusion please.

Thanks in advance.

If you are waiting for CG&Co to send a letter you could be waiting. Send tjem an e mail telling them you are a creditor and ask for the letter that is being sent to all creditors.   They will be communicating mainly by e mail so you will get the letter by e mail.

 

 

To answer your first question, print out the proof of debt form, fill it in and post with some documentary evidence that you are a creditor. e.g your order form with DJM or a receipt.

 

The proof of debt form should be sent to the liquidators. Address on my earlier post.

 

Regarding your credit card claim, follow your card providers procedure.

[Crepello]

I've followed Woodenhead's advice and now have a letter from Santander saying my claim (for £67.50 deposit for £135 total cost) will be considered. Thanks again Woodenhead!

[WolfofBadenoch]

I've had feedback from my CC company asking when i expected delivery of my APT. I've looked back through DJM newsletters 2 -5 (i can't find 1) but there is no mention of date although i was sure he updated delivery timescales in these. Can anyone point to any location where there was a proposed timescale? 

 

I'm looking through the APT thread on here but 60 pages might take a while...................

[Noggy100]

5 hours ago, WolfofBadenoch said:

I've had feedback from my CC company asking when i expected delivery of my APT. I've looked back through DJM newsletters 2 -5 (i can't find 1) but there is no mention of date although i was sure he updated delivery timescales in these. Can anyone point to any location where there was a proposed timescale? 

 

I'm looking through the APT thread on here but 60 pages might take a while...................

 

I too have been in contact with my credit card company and they are requesting a delivery date for the APT. Unfortunately I can't find any information on it including the newsletters. However, I'm sure an 'expected' date was given prior to any payment being requested. Although CG&Co has limited or no influence on the credit card companies, I have been advised that the liquidation date (4th June) is the appropriate date to use in this instance. For information only, I made my initial payment back in April 2018.

[Damo666]

Well, in an update to my OP, I chased my CC company this afternoon for the update to my claim they promised to send to me within 7-10 days, but hadn't.

 

Lady informed me that my claim is 'For Goods or Services not received', and advised that they are unable to process the refund as it's over 540 days (Some of you who may be observant will spot that I was originally told the time limit was 120 days). My response, again, was that I was not aware that there was a time limit, but besides, I only became aware of the situation of non delivery of the goods on 4th June when liquidators were appointed, so I could not have advised them of the situation any earlier.

 

She checked with her manager and asked me to write to them (via email) with any supporting information and they will review my claim then.

 

My polite email to her, thanking her for her time to update me, made the following points:

 

As I previously advised, it was on 4th June 2019 that DJ Models Ltd appointed liquidators and went into liquidation, the same day that I rang [CC Bank] to advise them of same. Up to this date I was informed by the manufacturer that the design and manufacture of the product was progressing satisfactorily.

 

CG&Co. have been appointed liquidators.  I attach their letter of appointment, received 13th June 2019.

I also attach newsletters from DJ Models Ltd advising me of progress, all of which were positive and that the scheme was progressing following some issue he had with the factory which delayed matters but was now resolved.

Newsletter #1 was from just before Christmas, 22nd Dec 2018. Talks about a tumultuous 18 months, falling out with the factory, web-site going live within the week and the 2nd deposit will be requested then.

Newsletter #2 was 30th Dec 2018 with a small update.

Newsletter #3 was 9th Feb 2019. 3D test model progress shown, 2nd deposits will be requested in 6-8 weeks and the model will go into tooling around the same time.

Newsletter #4 11th March 2019. Confirming that he’s still taking orders for the model.

 

I brought this to the attention of [CC Bank] the day I became aware that I was not going to receive the goods for which I paid a deposit on. I could not have brought this to your attention any earlier.

 

I hope that, in light of the above, [CC Bank] will be able to refund the £30 deposit I paid.

 

If there is any further information I can give you please give me a call back.

 

I'll let you know what happens next. I believe being polite and courteous is the best approach as clearly, whilst the bank has (flexible) 'rules', there is always leeway if the right approach is taken.

[dpgibbons]

Your cc company is trying it on. There is no time limit for S.75 claims - eg. 

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/01/10-facts-about-s75-and-chargeback-on-credit-cards-242559/

[Damo666]

6 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Your cc company is trying it on. There is no time limit for S.75 claims - eg. 

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/01/10-facts-about-s75-and-chargeback-on-credit-cards-242559/

It wouldn't surprise me. Either that, or they don't know the rules themselves.

 

My first contact with them was that there was a 120 day limit. From the 'Which?' link this would apply to debit card ChargeBack transactions which mine isn't. I've a Credit Card, they know that and I said I was claiming under Section 75, so why I was told 120 days is baffling.

Then yesterday I was told that there was 540 day time limit.

 

On both occasions I stated that I wasn't aware that there was a time limit. (What I am aware of and what the rule are my differ, which might be to my disadvantage). This is why I said to them on 4th June that I only became aware of the supplier being in contact with the liquidator that day, "so under the Limitations Act the commencement of any limitation begins today.", to cover me in the alternative. Thanks to Which? I've now learned that there is no limit!

[Richard E]

My CC company have rung me. Monies refunded. That's a bonus :-)

[Gordini5]

I spoke to my CC provider earlier this week and in 15 minutes was told the money for the King deposit will be in my account next day. A result. Thanks to all who have contributed.

[WILLIAM]

On 16/06/2019 at 17:23, Duple said:

Thank you for the advice.

 

I have emailed the liquidation firm and I have also contacted Paypal with regards to my payment. 

 

Fingers crossed my monies are returned. 

Have you had any response from PayPal?

 

My CC company say Section 75 does not apply as I paid through a third party, i.e. PayPal, so I'd be interested to know if they offer any sort of refund process? Thanks.

[BR(S)]

1 hour ago, WILLIAM said:

Have you had any response from PayPal?

 

My CC company say Section 75 does not apply as I paid through a third party, i.e. PayPal, so I'd be interested to know if they offer any sort of refund process? Thanks.

 

PayPal won't consider a refund if it's outside their cut-off period, which I think was either 120 or 180 days since the payment date. There's no harm in trying though; maybe they'll make a goodwill payment if you're a good customer!

 

I've gone down the route of a chargeback on the first APT installment on the basis of it being within the 540 day limit for some chargebacks (but no idea if that applies here) and I've heard paying with a credit card through PayPal may not be relevant for chargebacks (but no certainty on that). I'll report back when I've had a response.

Edited June 23, 2019 by BR(S)

[Hyper Aus]

Attempted to garner a charge back with my credit card company. They have a 6 month time limit on all charge backs so I am fat out of luck.

[dpgibbons]

2 hours ago, Hyper Aus said:

Attempted to garner a charge back with my credit card company. They have a 6 month time limit on all charge backs so I am fat out of luck.

 

Unfortunately credit card purchase protection is not a statutory right in Australia. But some cards do offer it - presumably yours does not?

[Hyper Aus]

51 minutes ago, dpgibbons said:

 

Unfortunately credit card purchase protection is not a statutory right in Australia. But some cards do offer it - presumably yours does not?

 

The statutory protection is with the retailer, and only with Australian retailers. Not sure how it would work with international sales if they are direct with the international seller. I had recently been through the process with an Australian retailer who imported goods from overseas to resell here, and who didn't think they had to honour any warranty at all. They ended up replacing the item before the govt authority (who has no real power anyway) was required to intervene.  

 

I was surprised that the card issuer even had a 6 month time limit when all the information I could find only gave 120 days for Australians.

 

Mind you I was only at level 1 support through a company I didn't even expect to do much for me anyway.

 

Due to the nature of crowdfunding and the turn around times for such products, I doubt I will ever go for it again, unless it is through a proper retailer who can refund if nothing comes of it.

 

I have since registered myself as a creditor with the liquidation company. I don't expect to see anything from it and have written off the loss as it isn't worth the stress.

[TravisM]

I spoke to my card issuer today and because it’s a MasterCard, their terms and conditions say that they can only deal any disputes if the item has not been received within 3 months of promised delivery.  

 

Anyone got any ideas when the OO Scale Class 92’s were due for delivery?  I seem to remember that they were supposed to become available 3rd or 4th quarter this year.

[dpgibbons]

3 hours ago, jools1959 said:

spoke to my card issuer today and because it’s a MasterCard, their terms and conditions say that they can only deal any disputes if the item has not been received within 3 months of promised delivery.  

 

Good grief. These credit card companies are truly brazen in their attempts to fob off claims.

 

Mastercard will certainly be aware that your claim is protected under S75 of the Consumer Credit Act and has no time limit. The law overrides anything in their T&Cs. There are plenty of consumer guides out there on your rights and how to proceed. Persist and you should be successful. 

[WolfofBadenoch]

8 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I spoke to my card issuer today and because it’s a MasterCard, their terms and conditions say that they can only deal any disputes if the item has not been received within 3 months of promised delivery.  

 

Anyone got any ideas when the OO Scale Class 92’s were due for delivery?  I seem to remember that they were supposed to become available 3rd or 4th quarter this year.

My CC asked when the APT was due and i initially said approximately a year and got the response below. I replied with a letter from liquidators +  a screenshot of current DJM website. Fingers crossed that's enough. 

 

Do you have any information that the seller has ceased trading?  If you do, please can you forward this onto, this will enable me to submit a chargeback immediately. Unfortunately, Without, I will need to wait until 12 months passes, so I will proceed 29 August 2019.

 

[dave_7820]

Having heard nothing at all from my CC company in the two weeks since I contacted them, I've just phoned them again.  I pointed out that I was aware that several people in the same situation had already received refunds (handy things, forums!).  I was told that they'd written to me - I haven't actually received anything (letters from them usually take an age to arrive).  I was then told that I could expect a credit in my CC account within three working days.  Object lesson, keep at them !!

 

I'll let you know when (if?) the credit arrives.

[ollieollieollie]

MBNA have put a credit on my account subject to DJ Models not contesting my claim in the next 45 days! 

[BR(S)]

Has anyone received a refund yet where they paid with their credit card through PayPal?

[dpgibbons]

 

5 hours ago, BR(S) said:

Has anyone received a refund yet where they paid with their credit card through PayPal?

 

That seems unlikely as it's generally held that S75 does not apply in that situation.

 

8 hours ago, ollieollieollie said:

MBNA have put a credit on my account subject to DJ Models not contesting my claim in the next 45 days!

 

19 hours ago, WolfofBadenoch said:

Do you have any information that the seller has ceased trading?  If you do, please can you forward this onto, this will enable me to submit a chargeback immediately. Unfortunately, Without, I will need to wait until 12 months passes, so I will proceed 29 August 2019.

 

It sounds as if your credit card providers are attempting to recover monies from DJM via a chargeback. This process takes longer and may well be unsuccessful. You should tell them that you expect them to settle your claim under S75 and not by any other means.   

Edited June 26, 2019 by dpgibbons

[Baggie]

Hello,

 

I paid my deposit for the APT using my Lloyds Visa Debit card, which I had written off long ago.

But last night I spent about an hour on the Lloyds Bank contact us messenger service via the banking app, and they have come to the conclusion that I can now dispute the payment.

 

I'm not getting my hope up, but if you don't ask...

 

They said:

 

The last things I need to advise you of, with regard to this dispute, are: 

 

Disputes email - DebitCardDisputes@lloydsbanking.com (where you will send evidence)

 

You disputes ref - X-XXXXXXX

 

You have 14 days to submit the evidence to us.

 

It takes us 5 working days to review evidence once it is received.

 

If further information is required,  we'll be in touch

 

Following the investigation, if we are able to pay a refund it will be paid directly into your account

 

Ensure you add the above disputes reference to the "subject line" of any email you send us.

 

 

EVIDENCE NEEDED:

 

covering letter detailing the circumstances of the purchase and the reason for the dispute

AND

Copies of any documentation that evidence their contact with the retailer, including any invoices.

 

AND

 

An email from the retailer

OR

A screenshot from the retailer's website

OR

Details from the Insolvency service.

[Richard E]

I now have written confirmation from my card provider of the refund but with the caveat "If you receive a refund from the merchant or the merchant provides further information  which confirms that the transaction is valid we may remove the credit at a later date".

 

All I would advise is keep emphasising the S75 aspect of any claim.