Beyer Peacock 4-4-0Ts

[sem34090]

I've got a growing interest in these locos, and am looking to produce a variety of models of them. As far as I know, these are the variations - 

The original (I seem to recall) Spanish Broad-Gauge locos, built for the Bilbao and Tudelo Railway in Northern Spain.

From the thread below, I also now know that at least one of these passed to the Madrid Sugar Co, shown above.



I seem to recall the Met A Class were the next ones to be built - here's one in original condition. The initial 18 locos carried names, but these were later removed.

 

There was also the Met B Class which basically tried to solve a few of the A Class' shortcomings, the first photo showing a class member in Met condition. The second one is shown in industrial service, with condensing gear removed, in North Wales. This locomotive was previously owned by the Nidd Valley Railway, so more pictures of it will appear below.

From the 1880s they appear to have been re-boilered, with the dome moving onto the second ring of the boiler. The pressure of the boiler was raised from 120psi to 150psi. They also seem to have gained cast chimneys at this time.

From 1895 cabs began to be fitted. I'm unsure as to when the condensing gear began to be removed (No.23, L.45 above, never lost it) but some locos lost it as also shown above.

I think it may have been sometime around 1905 that they began to be withdrawn, what with electrification, and 40 of the 40 A and 26 B Class locos had been withdrawn by 1907 (All of the Bs had been withdrawn, I think) with one remaining until 1936 (so I was wrong earlier) when it was set aside for preservation, this being the former Met No.23, by that time renumbered L45. I think it lasted until 1936, with one other (Met No.41) lasting almost as long, due to its being allocated to Brill Tramway duties, with that line shutting in 1935. No.23 and No.41 are shown sometime around 1933/4, with 23 in interim London Transport/Met livery, on the Brill Tramway.

23/L45 is shown in preserved condition above, with the later boiler and chimney but with cab removed and weatherboard re-fitted and, of course given it was never removed, original condensing gear.

 

Now, onto the District examples.

Not much to note with these, - At some point they gained curved-top weatherboards, but besides that I think they altered little during their lives. All but six of the 54 District examples were withdrawn by 1907, again due to electrification, with these last six remaining in departmental service until 1926, thereafter being scrapped.

Other companies had these, and I know of the Cambrian, Midland, LNWR and LSWR definitely using them, though I am unsure whether these were second-hand purchases or new-builds to the same design. Webb ended up rebuilding some of the LNWR examples into quite quirky 4-4-2Ts...

And it seems some other interesting experiments were carried out on the LNWR examples...

Here's the only set of online photos I can find for Cambrian ones, and I have yet to see any for the LSWR and Midland ones.

The Cambrian also converted two into tender machines, one remaining left-hand drive with lever reverse, the other being converted to right-hand drive with screw reverse - A photograph of one of them can be found here:

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p469896013/h3CAC7E77#h3cac7e77

Another company which bought a pair was the Nidd Valley Light Railway (Well, the stock was bought by the Bradford Corporation), one being withdrawn due to its unreliability and subsequently sold to the North Wales Granite Co. as pictured above, and below.

One purchaser of these that I had not previously been aware of was the Rhenische railway in Germany, an example is pictured above - I'm now beginning to wonder how many other classes of loco can be operated on layouts set in three different nations, in the following liveries -

• Tudela & Bilbao Railway Livery (Which appears to have been black, according to this page about the loco - https://forotrenes.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34540 )
• Madrid Sugar Co. Livery (A grimy black, basically!)
• Metropolitan Railway Green
• Metropolitan Railway Crimson (Early style with number on the centre of the tank)
• Metropolitan Railway Crimson (Later style with one panel of lining on the tanks and various permutations of lettering)
• District Railway Green
• LSWR Beattie Brown
• LSWR Adams Green
• LSWR Drummond Green
• LNWR Lined Black
• MR Lined Crimson
• Cambrian Black
• Nidd Valley Railway Livery (I'm not sure what this actually was!)
• North Wales Granite Co. Livery (Again, I'm not sure what this actually was besides it being lined. I imagine it to have been some form of green.)
• Rhenische railway Livery (Yet again, I'm unsure as to what this actually was.

 I should also add that one was purchased by the West Somerset Mineral Railway, remaining in Met livery.

 

As for preservation, to my knowledge there are two of this pattern of tank engine preserved - Bilbao & Tudelo Railway No.29 Izarra and Metropolitan Railway No.23.

Metropolitan Railway No.23 was set aside for preservation upon her 1936 withdrawal, and in the early 1960s was restored to open-cab condition and fully-lined Metropolitan Railway livery for the Centenary of the Metropolitan. After this she moved to the British Transport Museum at Clapham, and she is currently located in the main London Transport Museum at Covent Garden and looks to remain there for a very long time given her position on a higher-level floor.

No.23 after outshopping from Neasden in 1963.

And posed with some surviving Metropolitan Railway wagons.

At the BTM, Clapham.

And at what currently seems set to be her final resting place - the LTM at Covent Garden.

Izarra has been on outside display in Bilbao since the 1970s and by 2012 was in an appalling state. Here's what I take to be a 1970s photo compared with a 2000s photo:

Reading the above-linked Spanish forum thread, however, gives some encouraging photographs of the locomotive having its condition stabilised in 2012-13, although it now appears to carry a rather austere olive livery, the third photo seems to date from 2018.

The photos suggest that, despite years of outside storage, the loco appears to be in reasonably sound condition, though looks can often be deceptive and there appears to be a significant amount of filler on the tank sides.

 

I would greatly appreciate any information on any of these!

Edited June 6, 2019 by sem34090

[mike morley]

The Cambrian's were bought second-hand from the Met.  They got Beyer Peacock to convert one to a tender loco and converted a second themselves.

[sem34090]

I suspected that the Cambrian ones would be second hand from the Met but wasn't certain.

 

You wouldn't happen to know of any photos of the tender loco conversations?

[Nearholmer]

They were such a good design, and became the ‘London Standard’ for inner suburban use, that the general principle of a highly flexible 4-4-0T was used by others.

 

The North London, for instance, I don’t think used BP ones, but was a 4-4-0T Railway as far as passenger trains were concerned.

[KeithHC]

There was a thread on the Kitbuilding scratchbuilt forum for a NLR made from a 3D print.

 

Keith

[mike morley]

I'm not aware of any on-line pictures of the Cambrian conversions, but its a rare book on the Cambrian that doesnt contain a piccie or few.

The conversions are quite interesting, one being right-hand drive, the other left, with all sorts of other differences.  They came about because as tank engines they were too heavy to operate on the lightly-laid branches but lacked sufficient fuel and water capacity to go far on the main line (they were tried as bankers on the climb to Talerddig but kept on running out of water)

I once planned to have a go at building one of the tender conversions using an IKB kit , but abandoned the idea when it became apparent just how little of the kit would be needed.  The smokebox, chimney, dome, cylinders and front buffer-beam were about it, IIRCC.  I was also warned that the IKB chassis, although exquisite, is not man enough for the hurly-burly of exhibition life.

[sir douglas]

there was one on the Nidd valley near Harrogate http://www.nidderdalemuseum.com/bookshop/railways-in-nidderdale/

[sem34090]

Regarding the 3D Printed NLR tank, those are from the same source as 3D Printed Beyer Peacock 4-4-0Ts - My esteemed friend the proprietor of CDC Designs, L49 of this parish.

 

I would like to find out more about the tender conversions as I can then look to adapt the aforementioned L49's CAD to reflect them.

[mike morley]

A quick Google finds just this picture.  No 36 was r/h drive with a screw reverse.  The l/h drive loco was no 34 and had lever reverse.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p469896013/h3CAC7E77#h3cac7e77

 

The Cambrian bought six altogether but the other four were considered to be too far gone to be worth converting.  One ended up as station pilot at Aberystwyth.  I have a vague recollection that another became works pilot at Oswestry.

It is often stated that none of them lasted long enough to carry their Great Western numbers,  Wrong!  The first proper picture in CC Greens Cam Rys II features ex Metropolitan number 11, Latona, later Cambrian number 12, half hidden behind an ex-Lambourn Valley tank but with what is quite clearly its GWR rectangular plate on the tank.

Edited June 5, 2019 by mike morley

[JimC]

Yep. according the the sources I have the tender engines were allocated 1113/4 and tanks 1129/32, all but one were gone by Jan 1923, the exception was GWR 1130 ex 11/12 which lasted until June and carried the GW number.  There's a photo of 34 in RCTS part 10 credited to 'P J T Reed's Collection' wherever that is now. RCTS says the tender engines were not loved by Cambrian crews.

Edited June 6, 2019 by JimC

[JohnR]

I think the LSWR bought some of these from BP as "Plymouth Tanks" in 1875. W.G. Beattie was then in charge and he wasnt as good as his dad, so ordered a lot of external locos - also including the Ilfracombe Goods. 

[t-b-g]

Here is my take on the District Railway version, from a slightly modified IKB kit, built to EM gauge.

 

She is painted now but the photos are still on the camera!

 

[sir douglas]

the north wales one was BP 1878 of 1879 ex met 34 "Conway" North Wales Granite Co

 

BP 293 of 1863 Madrid sugar company

 

BP 1073 of 1871 Rhenische railway, Germany

 

 

[Martin S-C]

Fantastic photos. I have one of these to build from the old K's Milestones kit and these images are a real inspiration. Did this design have the shortest wheelbase 4-wheel front bogie of any standard gauge loco?

[sem34090]

I will update the OP to include some of these additional locos - I wasn't aware of the German ones!

 

My initial modelling plans go in the following order -

• Ex-District Railway Machine in DR livery, but with lettering 'patched' out, to represent one of the two machines owned by the fictional 'Blackstone & Marshland Railway'.
• Ex-District Railway Machine in fictional B&MR livery with an improvised cab fitted based on the District-Pattern weatherboard.
• Ex-District and ex-B&MR Machine in SR Livery (Pre-1931 olive or black) with a Wainwright-pattern boiler.
• District Railway Machine in DR Livery, unadulterated.
• District & South Western Junction Railway (Fictional) example, based on what I know of the LSWR ones with some District features.
• LSWR Machine, to run alongside the above D&SWJR one.
• Ex-Metropolitan Railway Example No.L45 in LT Livery.
• Metropolitan Railway No.41, reboilered with cab in later Metropolitan livery.
• Metropolitan Railway example reboilered but with open cab.

I have no real use for the following ones, but it'd be nice to have them to complete the set!!!

• LNWR Example
• LNWR 4-4-2T Example
• LNWR Modified Example (as above)
• MR Example
• Cambrian Example
• Cambrian Tender Example
• Nidd Valley Light Railway example.
• North Wales Granite Co. Example (Same loco as above)
• Spanish Example
• German  Example

 

That's a lot of Beyer Peacock 4-4-0s!!! My life is made somewhat easier by the fact that I've got 3D CAD files, by Mr L49 of this parish, at my disposal for the following versions:

• Reboilered Metropolitan, Open Cab, Condensing.
• Reboilered Metropolitan, Enclosed Cab, Condensing.
• Reboilered Metropolitan, Enclosed Cab, Condensing Gear Removed.
• District Railway

I have already modified this to provide the D&SWJR version, and soon the modified B&M one will be made. As I also now own a 3D Printer, making these things shouldn't be too difficult. I guess I'll then have to place a bulk order for suitable wheels, gearboxes and motors...

[sem34090]

I have now updated the OP to reflect information I have since gained!

[mike morley]

TBG.

What are your thoughts on the IKB chassis?  It really is a lovely looking thing but no description of it could be considered complete if it failed to use the word 'delicate'.  I would imagine the warnings about it being too fragile for exhibition use focus on the way the axle bushes are mounted.

[mike morley]

Here's mine to illustrate what I mean.  The loco's entire weight is taken by the pivots for the compensation beams.

[Nearholmer]

Did your list include the West Somerset Mineral Railway? And, I think there were other secondhand sales beyond the ones you've listed already, but I can't remember the details.

 

Somewhere, I've got a 1970s 'Locomotive Profile' about these, which contains a potted history, and lots of pictures. You might want to try to get a copy - they can be found very cheaply these days.

[sem34090]

I did include the West Somerset Mineral, but not in my list of liveries as I recall they simply left it in Met Livery.

 

I would be interested to have that - I'll keep an eye out for it.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, mike morley said:

Here's mine to illustrate what I mean.  The loco's entire weight is taken by the pivots for the compensation beams.

 

I couldn't stop the axle centres changing due to the tiny areas of metal attaching the springs to the beams.

 

Any weight on the model at all caused the beams to flex and the coupling rods to bind.

 

After much frustration, I made up a rigid inner dummy frame to take the driving axles. This is "hung" between the frames and has the beam/spring etches soldered solidly to the outside, using the axle bearings to align everything.

 

The inside frame is a rigid 4 coupled "motor bogie" but can pivot around the original beam pivots, allowing the weight to be shared between the driving wheels and the front bogie pivot.

 

The four couple drive unit is an upside down U channel, filled with lead and with the pick ups mounted on top, so they move up and down with the wheels, unlike he kit as designed.

 

I hope that makes sense! Not easy to describe but I really don't want to dismantle it to take photos as it is a right fiddle getting it together.

[DLT]

12 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I hope that makes sense! Not easy to describe but I really don't want to dismantle it to take photos as it is a right fiddle getting it together.

 

Hi Tony,

Yes, that makes sense to me. 

What a weird design! (the original, not yours)  I can see what the designer was trying to do, but its introduced some highly undesirable variables.

Cheers, Dave.

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Somewhere, I've got a 1970s 'Locomotive Profile' about these, which contains a potted history, and lots of pictures. You might want to try to get a copy - they can be found very cheaply these days.

Loco Profile 10 “The Met Tanks” - recommended. I was going to mention it earlier.  As Kevin says they can often be found cheaply secondhand these days - from memory I think it was one of the less popular issues.

6 hours ago, sir douglas said:

BP 293 of 1863 Madrid sugar company

 

La Poveda sugar factory, becoming their no. 502 (originally Tudela & Bilbao no. 27 “AMURRIO”.

 

No. 29 “IZARRA” was sold to Basconia steelworks in 1927 (becoming their no. 11), which is presumably where the photo in the first post was taken.

5 hours ago, sem34090 said:

I will update the OP to include some of these additional locos - I wasn't aware of the German ones!

Rhenische nos. 133-137 (BP 1043-1047 of 1871), named respectively “GRAVELOTTE”, “MARS LA TOUR”, “SEDAN”, “AMIENS” and “DIEDENHOFEN”. Why the French names? They were victories in the Franco-Prussian war. Two (134/5) were rebuilt as tender locos in 1892.

[eastglosmog]

To add to your livery list, a few of the LSWR BP tanks lasted long enough to get Drummond livery - Bradley as a picture of 320 in Drummond passenger livery (and 318 in Adams livery, fitted with a longer bogie).

[mikejames]

hi

hopefully not to far off topic

the photo above of the north wales granite co loco is attractive

and since named Conway is of interest since its 'my patch'

 

but a quick web search for north wales granite co doesn't produce anything helpful

I assume the loco is standard gauge and most quarries were narrow gauge

 

can anyone point to where it was used and for what

 

regards

mike j