Dairy operations

[Cofga]

I am planning to include a dairy on my future GWR 1930s branchline. However I have some questions concerning how dairies operated. From the limited information I have found it seems that once the decision was made to move from churns to tank cars these would have been loaded at a dairy. The diary would have been supplied by various farmers in the area and their milk would be delivered to the dairy in churns. The tank cars would be picked up and included in express trains bound fir large diary processing facilities near large cities such as London. First, are these limited details correct? 

 

Second, were the dairies located along the branchlines privately owned or were they owned by the large milk companies such as CWS, Express Dairy, West Park, etc? If privately owned were they contracted to provide milk for just one company or might they have contracts for two or more? This is important since if the former is true then only one type of tank would appear at a dairy but if the latter is the case then there might be two or more types of tanks at a dairy. 

 

Finally once the tanks were collected and made up into express milk trains would they be a mix of different liveries or would they be all for the same company? 

[WillCav]

Hi Cofga,

 

I'm by no means an expert on milk traffic but I have been reading up on the subject.

 

There are a number of threads on RMweb with loads of info - particularly the one called "1940s GWR milk tanks livery help".

 

The dairies that I have read about were run by United Dairies, CWS, Express Dairies etc and they would be expected to be served by the same company's tank.  The train with tanks from other diaries could be a mixture of liveries. The different dairies got the right wagons after marshalling in London.

 

The tank wagons could be more mixed up after pooling by the Milk Marketing Board in 1942 - after your timeframe.

 

When in the 30s? You could have only 4 wheel, mix of 4/6 or only 6 wheel depending on your date.

 

There could still be some churn traffic so you could vary the train with some Siphons.

 

Hope this helps

 

Will

[The Johnster]

You don't actually need a dairy, though this might be defeating the object a bit.  At Marshfield between Cardiff and Newport the dairy was about a quarter of a mile up the road from the railway, and milk was delivered to the yard in road tankers for transferring into the tankers.  I do not know how this was done in pre-tanker days, but would assume churns on flatbeds for loading into Siphons were brought to the yard, which was a simple 2 road affair on the up side.  As well as the vehicles Will mentions, there were some flats on which road tank trailers were carried, but there was no dock at Marshfield for these. 

 

The working was a late morning Canton job, which picked up empties left by the overnight down Whitland milk at Cardiff General's 'Fish Dock', shunted Marshfield, and propelled the loaded tanks back to the Fish Dock for collection by the up Whitland later in the afternoon.  There was a trailing crossover at Marshfield for the loaded train to access the down main, but no run around facilities.  Propelling at up to 40mph was permitted.

 

The job was notable at Canton in later years for being the only working on Xmas day.

[Steamport Southport]

On 09/06/2019 at 19:00, WillCav said:

Hi Cofga,

 

I'm by no means an expert on milk traffic but I have been reading up on the subject.

 

There are a number of threads on RMweb with loads of info - particularly the one called "1940s GWR milk tanks livery help".

 

The dairies that I have read about were run by United Dairies, CWS, Express Dairies etc and they would be expected to be served by the same company's tank.  The train with tanks from other diaries could be a mixture of liveries. The different dairies got the right wagons after marshalling in London.

 

The tank wagons could be more mixed up after pooling by the Milk Marketing Board in 1942 - after your timeframe.

 

When in the 30s? You could have only 4 wheel, mix of 4/6 or only 6 wheel depending on your date.

 

There could still be some churn traffic so you could vary the train with some Siphons.

 

Hope this helps

 

Will

 

There was also the road-rail milk tankers. As Johnster alludes to.

 

Some details here.

 

https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/11-kitba/rrtank.htm

 

 

Jason

[phil_sutters]

In designing your dairy, it is interesting to note that when the Wiltshire United Dairies Bason Bridge Milk Factory changed from churns to tank wagons in the 1930s, they had a new loop siding built on the far side of the S&D Burnham to Evercreech line. Milk was piped over the line on a gantry. The former platform for the churn traffic remained in use for fuel and sheet steel to come in and milk processed into cheese and tinned milk products to go out.

[AMJ]

For variety with a rail connected dairy, they might need a wagon of coal delivered for power purposes.

 

In the days prior to refrigeration they would have had ice blocks delivered.

 

Need to think what does the site produce? 

What do they need for supplies?

How are products/waste transported?

 

A smail dairy might just be milk, bigger ones could include cream, cheese, butter etc.

 

You can make it as complex or simple as you want.

[Fat Controller]

A common by-product in those creameries producing cheese was whey. This was packed in large wooden barrels, and sent off to be used in food manufacture. Other products might include milk powder, ice-cream powder etc. Empty tin cans would be required, arriving in vans; some of BR's oddest vehicles were built for this traffic, looking like ordinary vans, the only doors were in one end. The other end was corrugated, with a solitary vent. They took tins from Metal Box at Carlisle to various creameries around the area.

[Cofga]

Thanks for all that information. With respect to whey, I read somewhere of one operation that kept 300 pigs on hand and piped whey directly out to them to fatten them up. So in addition to butter and cheese you could also ship ham and bacon! I envision a siding/spur to the dairy sort of like Nick Wood’s cider factory on the Much Murkle.

[john new]

How were the tanks filled & emptied? The comment about Bason Bridge above noted regarding filling.

 

If modelling the point of discharge (fictitious confectionary plant) would there be low level pipe runs as per some oil installations or just a small mobile pump?  There seems to be lots of info around about the wagons and stock workings but not so much on close ups of loading/discharging. A portable pump on the platform is being used in the only photo I can recall seeing of discharging but I have to admit to only just commencing my search.

Edited June 17, 2019 by john new
Reworded for clarity

[Fat Controller]

Not sure if this will link properly, but it shows the somewhat 'lashed-up' arrangements at Vauxhall. There are movable, flexible, hoses from the wagon, then a fixed pipe-run:-

https://www.google.com/search?q=vauxhall+milk+depot&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=kfPAjmWykCml5M%3A%2Cgj0oeokkV8Z1pM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSpOd4iHRoMieGOaUTfAiE9C7V2WQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP2ofHg_DiAhXyVRUIHddiC3UQ9QEwBnoECAAQCA#imgrc=kfPAjmWykCml5M:

My sister did something about operations at Carmarthen for an 'A'-level project, but after 40+ years, a solitary view of a tank seems to be all that survives.

[john new]

Thank you for that link. More what I expected than the other picture I had seen. Provides enough for a stab at some piping.

 

Looks like the thick pipe is for milk out with a small bore hose feed possibly for washing with clean water or a pressure airline.

Edited June 17, 2019 by john new

[LBRJ]

You can see the steam lance used for cleaning the tanks out sticking out of the tank top access hole.

 

[PatB]

6 hours ago, Cofga said:

Thanks for all that information. With respect to whey, I read somewhere of one operation that kept 300 pigs on hand and piped whey directly out to them to fatten them up. So in addition to butter and cheese you could also ship ham and bacon! I envision a siding/spur to the dairy sort of like Nick Wood’s cider factory on the Much Murkle.

These days, of course, it gets sold to the gullible at vastly inflated prices as "nutritional supplements". 

[Fat Controller]

21 minutes ago, PatB said:

These days, of course, it gets sold to the gullible at vastly inflated prices as "nutritional supplements". 

'Gym bunnies'...It's also used in meal supplements/replacements for the elderly.

[john new]

4 hours ago, LBRJ said:

You can see the steam lance used for cleaning the tanks out sticking out of the tank top access hole.

 

Thanks for the confirmation the thin pipe was pressure piping for a steam lance and not for water or air. The fitting on the overhead gantry suggested a pressure system as it looked like a garage air-line connector, steam cleaning entirely logical. I've never used a steam lance, only water pressure washers, but should have thought of that for cleaning and sterilising in one.

Edited June 17, 2019 by john new

[Cofga]

I found this photo even more interesting since it shows a milk loading operation in an old engine house or goods shed at Torrington. Must have been a big milk producing area since there is a line of tankers waiting on an adjacent track. I wonder whether the piping line over the tankers is for cleaning the exteriors. I don’t see any way for the staff to get up there to connect a steam cleaning line. This would be an easy to model operation since you could use one of the Peco goods sheds and scratch build the overhead piping easily. I picked up one of the Bachmann milk loading structure flats recently and may just tack it in to a goods shed instead. Here is the photo.

 

 

[Fat Controller]

11 minutes ago, Cofga said:

I found this photo even more interesting since it shows a milk loading operation in an old engine house or goods shed at Torrington. Must have been a big milk producing area since there is a line of tankers waiting on an adjacent track. I wonder whether the piping line over the tankers is for cleaning the exteriors. I don’t see any way for the staff to get up there to connect a steam cleaning line. This would be an easy to model operation since you could use one of the Peco goods sheds and scratch build the overhead piping easily. I picked up one of the Bachmann milk loading structure flats recently and may just tack it in to a goods shed instead. Here is the photo.

 

 

Presumably you think that pipe-run is some sort of 'shower' set-up to sluice down the tank exterior after loading? Seems feasible, though I don't recollect much effort being put into that on the Whitland- Kensington Olympia trains I remember from school-days; they had a distinct 'tang' about them.

[Cofga]

That is my assumption since I don’t see any evidence of steam line fittings up there or dangling down anywhere for cleaning the interiors. They do look a bit dirty don’t they. I find it surprising they would steam clean the inside at the filling stations instead of the main dairy processing plant. To me it would make more sense to clean them just after the milk is removed instead of waiting for hours in which time it would sour. But then field cleaning would guarantee that the inside is clean when loaded. I am sure we will eventually find someone with the answer to these questions. After all this is more than I knew a couple days ago.

[LBRJ]

There seems to be some confusion here.

In the picture of Vauxhall - you can see the steam cleaning lance; for use immediately after emptying the tank, milk sours rapidly.

 

The outsides of the tankers were not washed, as a look at a few pictures of Brian's memories will confirm.

[Cofga]

4 hours ago, LBRJ said:

There seems to be some confusion here.

In the picture of Vauxhall - you can see the steam cleaning lance; for use immediately after emptying the tank, milk sours rapidly.

 

The outsides of the tankers were not washed, as a look at a few pictures of Brian's memories will confirm.

Yes, it is clear in the case of Vauxhall, but the followup question was what is the piping over the milk tankers at Torrington for? It may have nothing at all to do with them but it is an interesting setup.

 

Found more on Vauxhall. “Continuing with the dairy theme, here is milk from Torrington being discharged at Vauxhall station on 2 August 1975, the train being shunted by 09.005. I know nothing of the operations here; were there storage tanks or was the milk fed directly into waiting road tankers? I should have asked at the time!”

 

And “I worked at the United Dairies Vauxhall Depot for a period in early 1970 as a dairy technology student. Milk was supplied to the dairy by both rail and road tanker. The milk was collected from farms in the West Country and South Wales. My notes from the time indicate that the normal arrival time of the rail delivery was 0945hrs with a backup delivery at 0100hrs if necessary. Milk dropped by gravity from the rail tankers to storage tanks below ground level on the station side of the road. It was then pumped through a subway underneath the road to the dairy on the other side for pasteurisation and filling into glass bottles.”

 

So in the case of Vauxhall the tanks were cleaned at the main processing plant there. 

[Cofga]

Wait, there’s more! Take a close look at the milk tankers in this photo. Note that for the second tanker there is a hose of some kind hanging down from the overhead piping and dangling into the open hatch on top the tanker. Was this how they were filled at Torrington for the trip to Vauxhall?

 

 

[LBRJ]

No. Milk tanks were filled from the bottom pipes.

[The Johnster]

The tanks were glass lined on the inside, and steam cleaned as soon as the milk was discharged, but as has been said the outsides were not cleaned and stank of stale milk, especially in warm weather.  Hygiene was understandably considered vital in the production process, but as no milk could reach the consumers that had ever been in contact with the outside of the vehicles it was not considered necessary to clean them.  Tanks with branding, St Ivel and so on, were scrubbed up more frequently in order to display the brand name, but the 'ordinary' silver painted ones were left to their own rather smelly devices.  This is, trust me, not an aspect of the traffic that you want to recreate on a model...

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, LBRJ said:

No. Milk tanks were filled from the bottom pipes.

 

Tankers were top-filled. You can see the process in this photo from St Erth. The milk goes down a pipe to the bottom of the tanker, so the tanker slowly fills upwards from the bottom up, preventing the churning effect.

 

 

You can see the pipework for the top filling here at Torrington.

 

 

And you can see top-filling here at Seaton too.

 

 

[Karhedron]

On 17/06/2019 at 08:45, john new said:

How were the tanks filled & emptied? The comment about Bason Bridge above noted regarding filling.

 

If modelling the point of discharge (fictitious confectionary plant) would there be low level pipe runs as per some oil installations or just a small mobile pump?  There seems to be lots of info around about the wagons and stock workings but not so much on close ups of loading/discharging. A portable pump on the platform is being used in the only photo I can recall seeing of discharging but I have to admit to only just commencing my search.

 

You can get a peep into Express Dairies bottling plant at Morden in this shot. Like Vauxhall it has a selection of pipework for emptying the tanks and presumably for rinsing them out too.