London Road LNWR Coal Tank kit 4mm

[k22009]

I've suspended work on my layout to start a new London Road kit for a LNWR/LMS Coal Tank. The kit is etched all in nickel silver and has a cast resin boiler/smokebox. Alan Gibson wheels, motor and gearbox still to be decided on.

 

 

The etches look very nice and most of the castings are a mix of white metal and brass.

The cast resin boiler/smokebox isn't the best i've seen however, it has a raised defect on the front of the smokebox, if i try to remove it i will no doubt lose some of the rivet detail. Instead of asking John Redrup at LRM for a replacement which i'm sure would be no problem i will try and make a replacement first from brass/nickel silver (there is a nickel silver smokebox front on the etches that would normally be unused). This means i can add extra weight to the boiler too as well as the side tanks. The chassis will be compensated with Puffers horn blocks and pivot beam etc driven from the rear pair of the main drivers. It will also be push pull fitted as i have a Comet LMS Inspection Saloon and Comet LMS driving trailer to make which i think would be a good fit with the Coal Tank.

 

Anyway a start has been made this evening with the coupling rods made up.

 

 

Dave

[Brassey]

Is that a smokebox door I can see amongst the lost-wax castings?  If so it would be preferable to an etched one.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Brassey

[Guest Lyonesse]

Those coupling rods look very heavy for a coal tank.

[ianLMS]

I have a pro-scale coal tank kit i picked up from ebay which i will attempt later this year so will watch this kit build with great interest! Good luck!

[k22009]

1 hour ago, Lyonesse said:

Those coupling rods look very heavy for a coal tank.

 

 

Yes i agree they do look rather well fed, i'll scale the width of the photo and reduce the width of them a little with the tickling stick.

 

Dave

[Jol Wilkinson]

The rods are a a bit robust but being plain, can be thinned down.

 

The following photo shows the one I built about nine years ago. As i prefer to make the boiler/smokebox removable for painting/lining, I built up the front buffer beam and cosmetic front frames as an assembly and pinned/glued that to the lower sides of the smokebox/ash hopper. The boiler unit slides into position from the front, retained by the screw into the firebox end and the chassis/running plate screw at the front.

 

 

 

I also built a Proscale Coal Tank some years earlier. I recall only having one issue with the body, the smokebox wrapper was a poor fit IIRC. but the chassis was a  poor design and was replaced with one built up from a set of Alan Gibson milled brass frames.

[John_Hughes]

I've had one on the stocks for a while now, just adding stray bits and pieces as the mood takes me - though really it's just about ready for the paintshop with a couple of other locos to be done at the same time.

 

The 'milky bar' boiler went into the bits box pretty quickly, to be replaced by one I had 3D printed with enough room inside it for some serious weight - and more in those lovely big side tanks - and I made up new buffer beams as well. The sandbox linkage on the kit is a bit of a bodge but I decided I could live with it so otherwise it's pretty-much according to Hoyle, and an absolutely smashing runner.

[Guest Lyonesse]

Some years ago I scratchbuilt a coal tank, complete with sloping smokebox front.  I'll try and post a photo later.  A useful reference was a Jack Nelson article in one of the old Model Railways (sorry, can't remember the month/year).  This has a lot of detail drawings.  (JN was an engineering draughtsman).

 

From memory, the rods are only 2.5in deep, which is rather delicate for 4mm scale.  Still possible, though.

 

 

[Guest Lyonesse]

Not the greatest of photos, but you get the idea.

[Guest Lyonesse]

The coupling rods on my coal tank are a scale 4in deep, which I'm guessing I scaled from a photo.  Anyway, less insubstantial than I remembered.

[k22009]

Thanks for the photo, i've not made that many kits and i guess i sometimes just follow along with the kits parts without really checking the dimensions for accuracy, assuming they should be acceptable. That's what's great about the forum help is always on hand to point out things that don't necessarily jump out at you straight away. 

I'll slim down my rods and as Alan Gibson crankpin bushes are 1.5 dia i may try and use Romford crankpins which don't need a bushing, this will allow me to get a slimmer knuckle around them.

[k22009]

14 minutes ago, Lyonesse said:

The coupling rods on my coal tank are a scale 4in deep, which I'm guessing I scaled from a photo.  Anyway, less insubstantial than I remembered.

 

The rods from the kit are measuring around 5.5" deep. The rods in the photo are scaling in at about 3.5" ish, you're 4" looks the part.

[k22009]

Wittled the rods down to a scale 4" width as they're  nickel silver there still feels some strength in them, trimmed the chassis as per the instructions by 1mm at the front (this means the front brake hanger will have to be repositioned slightly as the cut was right through the middle of it) and a small cut to the top of the frames also at the front. Added the rear fixed axle bearings, cut outs for the hornblocks to the two front axles and soldered the rear and front spacers in place. 

 

 

Next up its the compensation beam and hornblocks along with the remaining spacers.  I'll also have a look too at which gearbox i'm going to use and where the motor will best sit (underslung angled up into the firebox with a worm and gear off the axle or with a High Level Roadrunner + type arrangement with the motor horizontal between the side tanks (which may be a bit tight at the backhead/cab front).

[Jol Wilkinson]

I've just had a look through "Bashers, Gadgets and Mourners" (the book of the Coal Tank) but the reproduction of the GA isn't clear enough to see the dimensions for the coupling rods. LNWR Portrayed by Jack Nelson has a lot of detail dimensions for LNWR loco fittings, but no coupling rod details.

 

[k22009]

Thanks Jol, I've gone as slim as I dare they're down to 1.33mm now and I must admit look much better. 

 

Dave

[Barclay]

17 hours ago, k22009 said:

Thanks for the photo, i've not made that many kits and i guess i sometimes just follow along with the kits parts without really checking the dimensions for accuracy, assuming they should be acceptable. That's what's great about the forum help is always on hand to point out things that don't necessarily jump out at you straight away. 

I'll slim down my rods and as Alan Gibson crankpin bushes are 1.5 dia i may try and use Romford crankpins which don't need a bushing, this will allow me to get a slimmer knuckle around them.

It may be considered bad practice but I seldom bush the Gibson crankpins - I worry about making big holes in my rods. I have several locos that have run for miles (real not scale) and the steel thread has never worn through the nickel or brass rods, so that appears to be an old wives' tale, for what it's worth!

[micklner]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

It may be considered bad practice but I seldom bush the Gibson crankpins - I worry about making big holes in my rods. I have several locos that have run for miles (real not scale) and the steel thread has never worn through the nickel or brass rods, so that appears to be an old wives' tale, for what it's worth!

How are you locking the retaining nut in that case?.

[k22009]

I assembled the hornblock guides ensuring the hornblocks moved freely in the slots before soldering the guides in place. 

 

 

One was slightly skew but it slides up and down nice and smoothly.

At this point i brass blackened the tube which fits over the pivot rod so that it wouldn't solder up when the rod was soldered to the frame sides. This will be rubbed down after soldering and the pivot rod that sits on the 2 front axles will then be soldered to it.

Using the springs and alignment jigs the hornblock assemblies were then positioned in place and along with the coupling rods to ensure they are soldered into the correct location. The front hornblocks needed trimming to miss the front spacer

 

After this the instructions suggest proceeding with the footplate.

 

Dave

[Brassey]

On 7 June 2019 at 09:13, Jol Wilkinson said:

The rods are a a bit robust but being plain, can be thinned down.

 

The following photo shows the one I built about nine years ago. As i prefer to make the boiler/smokebox removable for painting/lining, I built up the front buffer beam and cosmetic front frames as an assembly and pinned/glued that to the lower sides of the smokebox/ash hopper. The boiler unit slides into position from the front, retained by the screw into the firebox end and the chassis/running plate screw at the front.

 

 

 

I also built a Proscale Coal Tank some years earlier. I recall only having one issue with the body, the smokebox wrapper was a poor fit IIRC. but the chassis was a  poor design and was replaced with one built up from a set of Alan Gibson milled brass frames.

Hi Jol

 

Your Coal Tank looks excellent.  Has it been through the paint shop an can we have a pic if so?  Another couple of questions:

 

At the end of the brake pull rod you seem to have a link to the frame just before the pony truck.  I can't find this on my chassis only kits and there is no mention in the instructions.  Is it on the full kit etch only?

 

Also it looks like you have inserted spacers between the pull rod and the brake shoes etch.  Are these standard to the full kit as they are not in the chassis kit.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Jol Wilkinson]

12 minutes ago, Brassey said:

Hi Jol

 

Your Coal Tank looks excellent.  Has it been through the paint shop an can we have a pic if so?  Another couple of questions:

 

At the end of the brake pull rod you seem to have a link to the frame just before the pony truck.  I can't find this on my chassis only kits and there is no mention in the instructions.  Is it on the full kit etch only?

 

Also it looks like you have inserted spacers between the pull rod and the brake shoes etch.  Are these standard to the full kit as they are not in the chassis kit.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

 

Coal Tank #129 was built some time ago and is a regular runner on London Road when we exhibit it. I air brushed it with black cellulose, lined out with SMS (Modelmaster) transfers apart from the upper cab sides which are from a HMRS sheet.

 

I can't recall if the operating link for the brake pull rods was on the chassis or body etch. Perhaps Dave can look at his kit to tell us. IIRC, John Redrup designed the chassis kit many years ago to go with the K's w/m body after several customer requests. He designed the Coal Tank body sometime later and utilised the existing chassis kit etch for that.

 

Again, I don't recall the spacers I used for the brake pull rods. I don't think they were in the kit but probably came from a test etch from one of the earlier loco kits I designed for LRM (I tended to keep the spare ones). It's the sort of thing I add to spaces on the CAD drawn etches.

 

Jol

 

 

 

 

[Brassey]

Here's the current state of my K's Coal Tank indeed with an LRM Chassis.  

 

 

It has a Sagami 14xx motor and High Level RRCompact gearbox fitted underslung style. They do not foul the cab space.  This one has some Alan Gibson coupling rods that are slimmer and currently AWOL along with the pony truck.

 

As can be seen, I am about to fit the the brake pull rods.  I would have found it easier to have fitted the brakes before progressing to the footplate as the front end is a tight squeeze to get it all in along with the front guard irons.  As can be seen the guard irons are also currently off this model.

 

This is the second chassis (I have 3 in total).  I have a couple of sets of Jidenco Coal Tank etches that the other 2 are destined for.  More details are in my blog if interested.

 

This might be obvious, but speaking from experience, I found it easier to create the balance weights on the wheels before assembling the chassis.

[Barclay]

On 08/06/2019 at 12:33, micklner said:

How are you locking the retaining nut in that case?.

Just a dab of solder.

[k22009]

Hi Peter just checked the etches and there doesn't appear to be any brake linkage in the full kit or spacers at the pull rods, so i guess as Jol suggested they probably scratch built. The K's coal tank is looking the part though and at least it'll have plenty of mass with the white metal.

 

A little more done, i found the etched rebate for the valances on the footplate underside was slightly to narrow so was a bit tricky getting the slim valances in the right place. The cab and bunker all fitted perfectly however, the one piece floor and inner tank sides was a bit of a fiddle getting it in, i think it would have been better as 3 separate pieces the inner cab tank sides could have been then added before the tanks were soldered in place then. It all needs a rub over with the fibre brush and a clean up for now.

 

 

I've rolled myself a brass boiler so the next job for that is to cut out part of the lower rear for the motor and solder up the seam, so i guess i'd better sort out the drive train next.

 

Dave

[k22009]

Boiler and smokebox built at my latest stint at the workbench tonight, fortunately there was a smokebox front on the etches so i was able to replicate the shape easily.

 

 

I've added flats with soldered nuts to the bottom of the cut out which will sit on the bracket provided to screw to the resin boiler and inside the smokebox. This along with the front buffer beam and frame extensions can then be lifted out and removed as a complete assembly. I added rivets to the smokebox but they are far too coarse, i'll file them smooth and add some rivet transfers once i've primed the whole body. At least now i can add some much needed weight to the boiler along with the side tanks.

 

 

Dave

[Coal Tank]

Very nice work Dave