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'Tuning Fork' layouts - operational potential


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I am looking at building a really small micro layout to get me back into modelling. I've got some very temporary living arrangements at the moment so I am extremely limited for space. Therefore, I've been looking at knocking together a diorama with a 'tuning fork' plan. 

 

I have gone down the inglenook road in the past and have very much enjoyed the 'puzzle' of shuffling wagons in the 5-3-3 siding format. It's something that can give endless hours of fun. However, is there a similar puzzle that could be used for a tuning fork arrangement? Rather than just idly shunting wagons I will like to incorporate and element of an operational 'game' into the layout. I know this would be highly limited given the size of any layout/diorama, but hopefully there is still potential for a plan that means I could spot wagons to specific locations and rearrange a handful in a set order, probably using a card system (like for an inglenook design) to determine where each wagon should go. 

 

I have read comments from modellers in the past who would prefer two longer sidings for a shunting layout, rather than three short ones each with a more limited capacity. Can anyone vouch for this from experience when it comes to operation? As I say, I'm not expecting miracles given the limitations imposed by my space, I am really just after something that can keep me occupied for 20 minutes of play!

 

Anyway, any advice from folk who have build such a micro layout would be very much appreciated. 

 

Cheers,
David


 

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Hi David.

 

I have built a fair few tuning forks in the past, as you say operation is a bit limited but there are a few things you can do to make it a bit more interesting, using a brake van for instance, having more than one spot on a siding ( a coal merchant and a small loading dock for example ).

 

Using dice to determine where wagons go can be used or cards selected randomly or of course just shuffling wagons about is also fun, I hope that is of some use to you.

 

Jerry.

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Foxbile Brewery is a scenic fork involving three wagons, if I remember correctly, and operation is a cycle of moving each wagon one place forward clockwise (or anti) to get to it's next spot. 

 

Seem to recall it's 0 gauge in a boxfile with a third off scene siding, but you could omit this and follow the same procedure I'm sure. 

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21 hours ago, Jerry1975 said:

Hi David.

 

I have built a fair few tuning forks in the past, as you say operation is a bit limited but there are a few things you can do to make it a bit more interesting, using a brake van for instance, having more than one spot on a siding ( a coal merchant and a small loading dock for example ).

 

Using dice to determine where wagons go can be used or cards selected randomly or of course just shuffling wagons about is also fun, I hope that is of some use to you.

 

Jerry.

 

Hi Jerry, thanks for your reply. I have admired a number of your micro layouts over he years so thank you for the inspiration. They are all excellent suggestions for improving and enhancing operational potential. I really like the idea of using dice or cards - I'll have a look at that. You're right that a tuning fork is a limited but I just don't think I can manage to squeeze in an inglenook given my space restraints (I am working in 0 gauge). I'll have a bit more of a play about though. 

 

18 hours ago, 1722 said:

Foxbile Brewery is a scenic fork involving three wagons, if I remember correctly, and operation is a cycle of moving each wagon one place forward clockwise (or anti) to get to it's next spot. 

 

Seem to recall it's 0 gauge in a boxfile with a third off scene siding, but you could omit this and follow the same procedure I'm sure. 

 

Thanks very much. I'll see if I can track down some information on Foxbile, sounds an interesting little game. 

 

10 hours ago, noctilux2 said:

May a suggest you have a look at “Dead End” on this forum.  A tiny tuning fork example measuring just 27” in length.  Apparently size isn’t everything !

 

Again thanks for your reply. I'll have a look at that little layout, I'm sure it can provide some inspiration. 

 

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One possibility of increasing interest and operations in a simple tuning fork, is to include a building where a wagon is loaded or un-loaded. (Say a goods depot)
Wagons arrive in the other road, and are picked off one at a time (or more, if you like) and are shunted into the depot / warehouse for loading / unloading.
There is then the question as to how you arrange wagons that are due for loading / unloading, and where you put the ones you've just loaded, to move them out of the way....
Of course, the design of your layout and the length of your sidings will dictate this and can help you here (if designed properly)~

Another scenario (if you don't like wagons "disappearing" into a building) is say wagons loaded with stone, ballast, or coal. Loading taking place via a chute.
This can also be very interesting visually, and grab the attention of onlookers for some time. Though it's far more than a tuning fork Giles's "End of the Line" is a good example of this.
Of course, Giles very cleverly included a radio controlled lorry to take the loaded wagons away too - very impressive, if beyond what you're asking for here.
But I do like to see coal or other minerals being loaded into wagons - it's an added spectacle IMO

Another option for you may be to use a sector-plate as fiddle yard, and add an additional siding.....
Yes, your layout then becomes an Inglenook - but with only one point. And you then have an additional road (say at the rear) to place your loaded wagons....

Let us know what you decide - and good luck with it. Have fun :)

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Me again! Lol.
Another option is to include a wagon turntable - where wagons are taken into a warehouse or factory, one at a time - to be loaded / un-loaded.
An interesting way of doing this "hands free" could be the use of a magnet to draw the wagon into the building.
As such, the loading chute or wagon turntable may help you make a more compact scene - as you have an interesting feature

I'll shut up now ;)

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Shelfie is 4’6” by 15” deep and tall and is OO. Designed to have a run round loop, as inglenooks and similar have no interest for me. Fiddleyard is a ‘flying fiddleyard’ also known as a stick with a piece of track on, that comes off when not in use. Using Tim Horn boards, you could make similar and store it stood on end to save space. 

Also have a think about scales, this design would work in N in 3ft x 1ft with possibly more breathing space. Going up to 7mm, you could make a simple diorama, but pack the modelling elements in in a larger scale. Edit: just seen you’re in 7mm anyway, doh!

77931F78-D345-40DD-9FB9-6717E8B810C6.jpeg

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As @marc smith says the design is key, spend time on it. Get some wallpaper and draw/mock the plan full size, that will really show you the space you have, and if your design gives the play value you want from it too.

38FC9009-E0A0-44EB-98A4-3AC3F3FA96BF.jpeg

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The possibilities are endless with a small tuning fork layout. You can add virtually any building and any theme such as a coaling yard or ware house with a small platform. 

Look forward to seeing your progress.:good_mini:

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On 10/06/2019 at 10:22, marc smith said:

Another option for you may be to use a sector-plate as fiddle yard, and add an additional siding.....
Yes, your layout then becomes an Inglenook - but with only one point. And you then have an additional road (say at the rear) to place your loaded wagons....

Let us know what you decide - and good luck with it. Have fun :)

 

Echoing the comments from Marc Smith above, a design I submitted to Carl Arendt's Micro-Layout website nearly fifteen years ago now worked on just that principle - it was designed for 4mm scale / OO gauge, not 7mm, but was intended to fit into a shoebox, with a traverser (rather than a sector plate) on the lid.

 

shoehorn.gif.8e4102da459bc8b81c5a0184c467934a.gif

 

 

I'm afraid I didn't get very far building it and it never progressed beyond a lined box, but it does incorporate some of the ideas Marc suggests if they're of interest.

 

Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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On 10/06/2019 at 10:22, marc smith said:

One possibility of increasing interest and operations in a simple tuning fork, is to include a building where a wagon is loaded or un-loaded. (Say a goods depot)
Wagons arrive in the other road, and are picked off one at a time (or more, if you like) and are shunted into the depot / warehouse for loading / unloading.
There is then the question as to how you arrange wagons that are due for loading / unloading, and where you put the ones you've just loaded, to move them out of the way....
Of course, the design of your layout and the length of your sidings will dictate this and can help you here (if designed properly)~

Another scenario (if you don't like wagons "disappearing" into a building) is say wagons loaded with stone, ballast, or coal. Loading taking place via a chute.
This can also be very interesting visually, and grab the attention of onlookers for some time. Though it's far more than a tuning fork Giles's "End of the Line" is a good example of this.
Of course, Giles very cleverly included a radio controlled lorry to take the loaded wagons away too - very impressive, if beyond what you're asking for here.
But I do like to see coal or other minerals being loaded into wagons - it's an added spectacle IMO

Another option for you may be to use a sector-plate as fiddle yard, and add an additional siding.....
Yes, your layout then becomes an Inglenook - but with only one point. And you then have an additional road (say at the rear) to place your loaded wagons....

Let us know what you decide - and good luck with it. Have fun :)

 

On 10/06/2019 at 10:26, marc smith said:

Me again! Lol.
Another option is to include a wagon turntable - where wagons are taken into a warehouse or factory, one at a time - to be loaded / un-loaded.
An interesting way of doing this "hands free" could be the use of a magnet to draw the wagon into the building.
As such, the loading chute or wagon turntable may help you make a more compact scene - as you have an interesting feature

I'll shut up now ;)

 

Hi Marc, 

 

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me. There's some great suggestions there and plenty to mull over. 

 

I am really keen of your idea of adding a loading/unloading aspect to the layout for added operational and visual interest. I'm thinking of basing the design around a small engineering works or factory, which will give a chance to use a variety of vans and open wagons and of course incoming goods such as coal. I could definitely utilise that idea for the open wagons and coal. 

 

The wagon turntable is another fantastic suggestion and something to think about. I'm sure it will be easier to do in 7mm scale too, where the added bulk and mass should work well. I'll have a look to see if anyone produced one in 0 gauge. 

 

The sector-plate/traverser idea is something I have been considering. I always admired your first 7mm layout which utilised the one point but could be operated as an inglenook. Obviously I was a huge fan of Poynton Sneer too! Both of these have proved inspirational and have been shaping my thinking over design. I have always wanted to try a 'pointless' layout one day, that would very much hell in saving space - whether it is two sidings or three fed from a traverser would need to be weighed up but it does appeal to me. I have also been considering the use of your clever 'mirror trick' too.....

 

Thanks again for sharing, it's great to have your input and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me :)

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On 10/06/2019 at 10:37, PMP said:

Shelfie is 4’6” by 15” deep and tall and is OO. Designed to have a run round loop, as inglenooks and similar have no interest for me. Fiddleyard is a ‘flying fiddleyard’ also known as a stick with a piece of track on, that comes off when not in use. Using Tim Horn boards, you could make similar and store it stood on end to save space. 

Also have a think about scales, this design would work in N in 3ft x 1ft with possibly more breathing space. Going up to 7mm, you could make a simple diorama, but pack the modelling elements in in a larger scale. Edit: just seen you’re in 7mm anyway, doh!

77931F78-D345-40DD-9FB9-6717E8B810C6.jpeg

 

On 10/06/2019 at 10:43, PMP said:

As @marc smith says the design is key, spend time on it. Get some wallpaper and draw/mock the plan full size, that will really show you the space you have, and if your design gives the play value you want from it too.

38FC9009-E0A0-44EB-98A4-3AC3F3FA96BF.jpeg

 

Thanks Paul, again there are some great ideas there. As always in 7mm scale, it is the points that gobble up all the space, but there are definitely options by incorporating the clever use of a traverser or sector plate into the design. A run-round loop would be great in an ideal world, but I will probably be defeated by my space constraints.

 

I am going to be limited to a length of around 180cm (or 6' in old money), which is obviously a tiny footprint given the large scale, but others have show that something may be possible. As I said above, I may even have to go down the road of a 'pointless' tuning form or inglenook. Granted this is not everybody's cup of tea, but at the end of the day, even the smallest project is better than no layout at all! 

 

As suggested by Mr Smith and yourself, I will try some full-size planning with a roll of wallpaper, some point templates and a handful of wagons. It will quickly give me a clue as to what is realistic in such a minimum space. 

 

Thanks again!

David

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On 10/06/2019 at 11:19, OOman said:

The possibilities are endless with a small tuning fork layout. You can add virtually any building and any theme such as a coaling yard or ware house with a small platform. 

Look forward to seeing your progress.:good_mini:

 

You're very right, it offers lots of possibilities and even the opportunity for interchangable buildings to represent different settings, industries or traffic flows. That is something I have been contemplating to add to the operational interest and flexibility. 

 

On 10/06/2019 at 20:46, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

Echoing the comments from Marc Smith above, a design I submitted to Carl Arendt's Micro-Layout website nearly fifteen years ago now worked on just that principle - it was designed for 4mm scale / OO gauge, not 7mm, but was intended to fit into a shoebox, with a traverser (rather than a sector plate) on the lid.

 

shoehorn.gif.fad036003b06312c0a789169896c170f.gif

 

I'm afraid I didn't get very far building it and it never progressed beyond a lined box, but it does incorporate some of the ideas Marc suggests if they're of interest.

 

Keith.

 

Hi Keith,

 

Thanks very much for sharing that design. I was always a huge fan of Mr Arendt's website and the small layout scrapbook. If you don't mind, I will have a play about with that concept when I am doing my full-size planning and mockups :good_mini:

 

Cheers, 

David 

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9 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

 

Hi Marc, 

 

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me. There's some great suggestions there and plenty to mull over......

 

The wagon turntable is another fantastic suggestion and something to think about. I'm sure it will be easier to do in 7mm scale too, where the added bulk and mass should work well. I'll have a look to see if anyone produced one in 0 gauge. 

 

The sector-plate/traverser idea is something I have been considering. I always admired your first 7mm layout which utilised the one point but could be operated as an inglenook. Obviously I was a huge fan of Poynton Sneer too! Both of these have proved inspirational and have been shaping my thinking over design. I have always wanted to try a 'pointless' layout one day, that would very much hell in saving space - whether it is two sidings or three fed from a traverser would need to be weighed up but it does appeal to me. I have also been considering the use of your clever 'mirror trick' too.....


Hi again @south_tyne
Many thanks for your kind words re my modelling efforts - I try my best, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm a fan of doodling lots of ideas and several versions of plans, around a basic concept in my head. Even once I've decided on a particular option, I like to sketch out the plan on some wallpaper, as PMP says. This helps me visualise the plan in 3D and decided on positions of buildings, and sometimes helps me tweak the final plan.

Re the question of a Wagon turntable - I'm pretty sure Skytrex did one? I may be wrong there, and am happy to be corrected. I've certainly got a narrow gauge O-16.5 one I painted up. It even came with "lazy Susan" bearing. If you're going to use a wagon TT, I would definitely consider using such a bearing. I've seen Simon Castens (and at least one other person) use the spindle from a Multi CD case as Turntable (Simon's was in Gauge 1 though) - you know the sort of case you get 50 or 100 CD's in? - the type when you buy CD's without individual Jewel cases? But ahem, do people still use CD's? Apart from me, that is?

I thought of another good example of this sort of design layout - the original version of Dave Tailby's "Trevanna Dries" China Clay layout
That employed only one point. The rear road could be used for "arrivals" of clay hood wagons plus supplies such as coal. This road disappeared at one end behind the clay dries, and underneath the overbridge at the other end (where the sector plate is) One of the foreground roads went into the dries - so you could load / unload either in the building or behind it (loading wagons, or simply taking them off the track) I use the past tense when talking about this layout because it has since been extended. The original design was more compact. You could use it with an additional cassette at the road behind the dries - say when at exhibition, or without the casette it could function in a smaller space at home.

I make that last point, because some people have limited space at home, but may want to consider adding cassettes for additional operating potential when exhibiting
If you get some sketches together south_tyne, please share them - I'm intrigued to see what you're thinking about :)

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9 hours ago, south_tyne said:

Hi Keith,

 

Thanks very much for sharing that design. I was always a huge fan of Mr Arendt's website and the small layout scrapbook. If you don't mind, I will have a play about with that concept when I am doing my full-size planning and mockups :good_mini:

 

Cheers, 

David 

 

Go for it! One thing I'm learning is that, when I'm looking at plans and ideas to modify for my own projects, it can also help to refer back to protoype photos as often as possible too for details. I don't do it nearly often enough, but there are plenty of resources to refer to.

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Just a though, and era dependant, you could use conflats,

 

These where used for containers, as supplied by some RTR manufactures, Packing boxes, machinery and even small vehicles/tractors.

 

 These have the added advantage, in that it is relatively easy to lift off the loads  .

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22 hours ago, marc smith said:


Hi again @south_tyne
Many thanks for your kind words re my modelling efforts - I try my best, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm a fan of doodling lots of ideas and several versions of plans, around a basic concept in my head. Even once I've decided on a particular option, I like to sketch out the plan on some wallpaper, as PMP says. This helps me visualise the plan in 3D and decided on positions of buildings, and sometimes helps me tweak the final plan.

Re the question of a Wagon turntable - I'm pretty sure Skytrex did one? I may be wrong there, and am happy to be corrected. I've certainly got a narrow gauge O-16.5 one I painted up. It even came with "lazy Susan" bearing. If you're going to use a wagon TT, I would definitely consider using such a bearing. I've seen Simon Castens (and at least one other person) use the spindle from a Multi CD case as Turntable (Simon's was in Gauge 1 though) - you know the sort of case you get 50 or 100 CD's in? - the type when you buy CD's without individual Jewel cases? But ahem, do people still use CD's? Apart from me, that is?

I thought of another good example of this sort of design layout - the original version of Dave Tailby's "Trevanna Dries" China Clay layout
That employed only one point. The rear road could be used for "arrivals" of clay hood wagons plus supplies such as coal. This road disappeared at one end behind the clay dries, and underneath the overbridge at the other end (where the sector plate is) One of the foreground roads went into the dries - so you could load / unload either in the building or behind it (loading wagons, or simply taking them off the track) I use the past tense when talking about this layout because it has since been extended. The original design was more compact. You could use it with an additional cassette at the road behind the dries - say when at exhibition, or without the casette it could function in a smaller space at home.

I make that last point, because some people have limited space at home, but may want to consider adding cassettes for additional operating potential when exhibiting
If you get some sketches together south_tyne, please share them - I'm intrigued to see what you're thinking about :)

 

Thanks again Marc. I am very much the same, I love doodling and drawing up schemes and ideas. I find planning in full-size is the best way to see whether things work, not only from a space point of view but also visually, regarding sight-lines and angles. The problem is, very much unlike yourself, my efforts rarely transfer to reality due to procrastinating and the inability to make a decision! 

 

There are some excellent ideas there regarding the wagon turntable - I'll have a look. As an aside, funnily enough I've just packed all my CDs away in the loft.... I have hundreds of different genres that reflect my eclectic tastes - pop, jazz, big band and brass ensemble etc - but nothing to play them in anymore!! They might come back into fashion one day I suppose. Anyhoo..... 

 

I will see if I can find any information or pictures of Trevenna Dries, it sounds intriguing. I have been a fan of a number of Dave's layouts over the years, but I have never seen this one. A hidden sector-plate or traverser is something I have been toying with... I have an idea for a wagon traverser inside a building, which would move a wagon between two sidings, it would enter empty then magically re-emerge loaded. 

 

The option to expand is definitely something I could do. As I mentioned, I have about 180cm at home but could have an optional fiddle yard for use at a show (being very optimistic that it will be good enough to exhibit!). That would mean it would have to be operable at home in the smaller format though. It needs some careful consideration. 

 

As ever, I'm full of good ideas....... just need to transfer that to reality.....!

 

Thanks again for you input. 

David 

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22 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

Go for it! One thing I'm learning is that, when I'm looking at plans and ideas to modify for my own projects, it can also help to refer back to protoype photos as often as possible too for details. I don't do it nearly often enough, but there are plenty of resources to refer to.

 

Thanks, that's useul advice. It's very true mind, we often forget to look back at the prototype and get fixated on looking at other models for inspiration. After all, we are supposed to be echoing the real thing in our layouts....

 

16 hours ago, d&h said:

Just a though, and era dependant, you could use conflats,

 

These where used for containers, as supplied by some RTR manufactures, Packing boxes, machinery and even small vehicles/tractors.

 

 These have the added advantage, in that it is relatively easy to lift off the loads  .

 

Thanks, that's another interesting idea. I'm modelling the late 1960s, early 1970s in a setting with industrial locos on their last legs, so it's probably fitting. 

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Shelfie is an entertaining layout to operate having spent some time enjoying it myself, it has even been used as a medically theraputic layout so has a lot going for it.

In 7mm, to obtain a run round facility, split the loop at one end and run it onto the traverser, gives added operational interest and possibilities over a sidings only type layout IMHO.

 

Mike.

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54 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

......I will see if I can find any information or pictures of Trevenna Dries, it sounds intriguing. I have been a fan of a number of Dave's layouts over the years, but I have never seen this one. A hidden sector-plate or traverser is something I have been toying with... I have an idea for a wagon traverser inside a building, which would move a wagon between two sidings, it would enter empty then magically re-emerge loaded. 

 

Thanks again for you input. 

David 


Hi again -  see, you got my interest.... and now I won't shut up! ;) lol
Trevanna Dries is now owned by fellow South-Walian and pal @Wayne 37901. So if you can't find much info, Wayne may have some more pics
Though as I mentioned earlier, the layout has now been expanded, with increased storage capacity at each end (and I think maybe another off-stage point?) I'm fairly sure Dave Tailby used to exhibit it on an ironing board....

The basic principle of the design is still there to be seen though, and the use of a sector-plate inside the building could work really well in this design.
I'm sure you'll see that, if you manage to track down some photos.
You say that unlike myself, your designs are subject to much procrastination.... well I can assure you there has been, and remains to be much procrastination and chin scratching in the Smith household ;)

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9 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Shelfie is an entertaining layout to operate having spent some time enjoying it myself, it has even been used as a medically theraputic layout so has a lot going for it.

In 7mm, to obtain a run round facility, split the loop at one end and run it onto the traverser, gives added operational interest and possibilities over a sidings only type layout IMHO.

 

Mike.

 

Cheers Mike.

 

The thumbs up for Shelfie is interesting. Replicating that in 7mm scale would ultimately be too large but I will have a look to see whether I am able to incorporate elements of the design into some plans. 

 

You're right that a loop would be preferable for operational interest. As you suggest, I think the only way this would be possible will be by using a sector plate instead of one point. What I am very conscious of with such a small layout is the loss of overall length to hidden storage. Ideally I would like to maximise the scenic aspect, in a perfect world being scenic over the whole length with any hidden storage behind scenery/buildings. That is where the thinking of an optional fiddle yard for exhibiting might be an idea - it would still have to be operable at home in the smaller format though. 

 

It's certainly a quandary! 

 

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10 hours ago, marc smith said:


Hi again -  see, you got my interest.... and now I won't shut up! ;) lol
Trevanna Dries is now owned by fellow South-Walian and pal @Wayne 37901. So if you can't find much info, Wayne may have some more pics
Though as I mentioned earlier, the layout has now been expanded, with increased storage capacity at each end (and I think maybe another off-stage point?) I'm fairly sure Dave Tailby used to exhibit it on an ironing board....

The basic principle of the design is still there to be seen though, and the use of a sector-plate inside the building could work really well in this design.
I'm sure you'll see that, if you manage to track down some photos.
You say that unlike myself, your designs are subject to much procrastination.... well I can assure you there has been, and remains to be much procrastination and chin scratching in the Smith household ;)

 

Please feel free to chatter away!! :) I think I've tracked down some photos of Trevanna on t'interweb. It appears to be an inglenook with one point and a sector plate at each end. Does that sound about right? Tracked down a thread but I wonder whether this is the revised version.  

 

Inertia obviously happens to the best of us then.... I don't feel as bad!! I'm determined to get 'something' up and running, even if it is just a really small diorama. 

 

The sadly recently departed Shortliner of this parish worked up some great ideas that he shared through the old Small Layout Scrapbook. A couple of them have long been favourites of mine, which I am drawing inspiration from through the project....

 

Smithfield Street Yard and Shortover Yard can be seen here: http://www.carendt.com/micro-layout-design-gallery/traversertransfer-table-lines/

 

Then also Rayners Yard, which can be viewed on this page: http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-54-october-2006/. I really like the use of the short traverser on this plan.... hiding inside a building would offer a real boost to operation. 

 

 

 

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I've never built an inglenook although I do fancy trying it out. I've got a sector plate on my current layout and it does make operation enjoyable although if I don't use the crossover I could always operate it as an inglenook I guess. It measures 5ft 3 x 15 inches and the fiddle yard is 24 inches. I added a kick back to make things a bit more interesting.

 

Steve.

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