LNWR London Road - Locomotives and rolling stock

[billbedford]

14 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Me neither. I have always assumed that they were either more like a piece of BH rail in cross section, with a flat top and bottom face. Either that or the top and bottom flanges weren't a crisp right angle but had a more rounded profile (if you see what I mean).

 

See page 66 of LNWR Non-Corridor Carriages.

[Compound2632]

Thanks - that is now very clear. In that photo one can even see the positions of the pads supporting the body, at about 2'0" - 2'6" intervals. These carriages are 50 ft 8'0" wide vehicles from 1899-1901. The square not rounded ends to the headstocks are also clear.

 

Edit: I was looking at p. 55 which has your photo. But yes p. 66 has a sketch of the bulb section. I should read my library more carefully!

Edited April 22, 2019 by Compound2632

[Buhar]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Like so. But that's a Gresley bulb - I think. 

It was a discussion on GNR stock but I assumed it would be a standard engineering profile.  I'd forgotten the LNWR scratch -built everything down to rolling their own steel. 

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Buhar said:

It was a discussion on GNR stock but I assumed it would be a standard engineering profile.  I'd forgotten the LNWR scratch -built everything down to rolling their own steel. 

 

Quite apart from Crewe rolling its own, I wonder to what extent there was standardisation of steel profiles in the 1880s - 1890s? British Standards started to be issued by the Engineering Standards Committee in 1901, with BS9 for bullhead rail dating from 1904.

[billbedford]

I would have thought that, even in 1900, there were a limited number of comanies that could turn new mill rolls.

 

I have a Navy constructor's manual from 1941 which gives a similar profile to the GNR & LNWR for bulb angles, and notes that typical scantlings are 5 x 2.5 x 8.49 lbs, 9 x 3.5 x 21.2 lbs and 8 x 3 x 13.6 lbs.

[Compound2632]

... and I suppose that when BS profiles were introduced, they reflected established practice.

[Jol Wilkinson]

6 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

See page 66 of LNWR Non-Corridor Carriages.

Well spotted, Bill.

 

I usually go to the WCJS book as it has more detail information than the others. Where would we LNWR modellers be without  Philip Millard?

[N15class]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Thanks - that is now very clear. In that photo one can even see the positions of the pads supporting the body, at about 2'0" - 2'6" intervals. These carriages are 50 ft 8'0" wide vehicles from 1899-1901. The square not rounded ends to the headstocks are also clear.

 

Edit: I was looking at p. 55 which has your photo. But yes p. 66 has a sketch of the bulb section. I should read my library more carefully!

They are not rubber pads, it's that dodgy etched perforation you get for the bottom fold on some kits.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The weather having smiled upon us, I was able to start spraying the batch of finished models. I use a "portable" spraybooth and run the exhaust hose out of an open window. The Renown, 2500 gallon tender and 4' 6" Tank are in PPP grey etch primer, the D71, D352 coaches and D425 parcel van have been etched primed and then given a coat of cellulose red oxide as that is a better undercoat for the LNWR Coach Lake.

 

 

The various bits are in the base of a plant propagator that I keep the painted models in, handy for the airing cupboard.

 

[Compound2632]

Noting that you've gone easy with the red primer on the upper panels.

[Jol Wilkinson]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Noting that you've gone easy with the red primer on the upper panels.

Only because it isn't really needed.

 

I should really have painted the upper panels white, masked them and added the red oxide followed by the coach lake.  I'll have to write a procedure schedule to remind myself next time.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Painting complete, it is now time to get out the lining pens, etc. I'll start on the carriages using a bow-pen and tubular pens, before I move onto the locos which will be lined with transfers.

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

While plodding along with lining the carriages, I decided to have a look at a rather unusual kit.

 

Years ago I came across two Modellers World 4mm kits for the LNWR D17 six wheel 20T brake van. Unlike the all w/m GEM kit, this is a mix of etch and w/m castings for the outside framing. A letter in the box from Barry of MW to the original recipient says that the etches need modifying as the axle holes are too low and clearly patterns had to be created for the w/m castings. However, as far as I know, this kit didn't become available as a production item. There are no instructions but an exploded drawing is included, etc. so it will be a bit of a challenge. The photo shows the etches from one kit after cleaning up.

 

 

The sides and ends folded up neatly and with the interior partition. it was quite easy to put the body "box" together.

 

However, the underframe is turning into something of a nightmare. The solebars have to be folded into a U shaped channel, and the w-irons then fold down from this. The first fold is along the top of the half etched solebar, the second fold along the bottom edge. I made a bit of a hash of the first, with a rather distorted result but did it differently for the second which is much better.

 

The bearing system for the wheels is much like the that used on the M&L six wheel carriages of the time, to give a centre axle that can rock as well as move up and down. One outer axle is fixed, the other rocks about a simple pivot. However, the fold lines for the bearing units are 19mm apart and so don't match the dimensions for inside  bearings in 4mm although that is what the drawing shows so I will remove the w-irons and grind away a small section of the bottom lip of the channel to accept Bill Bedford's sprung w-irons. I'll have to build these up and offer them up to the underframe to check the ride height before finally fixing in place. For such a short wheelbarrow, I don't know if it'll be worth adding any side-play to the centre axle for P4 curves.

 

 

[jwealleans]

Now that's the sort of challenge I enjoy.  It's very satisfying to make something presentable out of a set of etches which who knows how many people have looked at and thought 'Maybe not...'.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Photos of the LNWR six wheel brake van body and underframe folded up. The u/f sole-bar lower sections have been ground back to accept the BB sprung w-irons. I'll assemble two of the sprung w-irons with wheels, etc. to check the ride height next. The underframe needs cut-outs at each to clear the back of the buffer assembles as it is fitted to the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

I am working on the six wheel brake van between lining sessions on the three LNWR coaches. I find it best to line each side in short sessions and then allow the paint to dry thoroughly overnight. So to keep everything together but remove it from the workbench while I get on with the brake van, I have just bought a Humbrol Workstation. The carriage on the cutting mat is a completed 42ft WCJS Brake Third, which I am using as a "guide" to get reasonably consistent results.

 

[Compound2632]

Aha! You are exposed as an accumulator of hotel mini-jam-jars. My late mother was another such - from her I have a useful collection.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I like to think of it as recycling, preferably with  Wilkins of Tiptree jars,  but I may have to start looking for those with the taper sides to fit into the workstation more securely..

[Jol Wilkinson]

Having filed clearance slots to clear the tails of the buffers when fitting the body, I made up the BB w-irons and set up the outer axles to check the ride height, which was slightly high but will hopefully settle when the other part, castings, etc are  added. I then soldered one end w-iron using the RSU and aligned with the marks I had scribed to the underside of the floor. The second was then added using a Brassmaster alignment jig with dummy axles fitted to the spring units. I am using AGW split spoke  wheels so that I can fit a sliding axle to the centre w-iron. I used Exactoscale tapered pin point bearings to give the correct alignment for the spring carriers and keep the w-irons vertical. I'll fit the centre w-iron next and then the rest of the underframe details.

 

 

 

[57xx]

On 08/02/2019 at 17:33, Jol Wilkinson said:

These are the John Hayes scrapers (blue) and etch kit tag chisel (yellow).  John ground them from old hacksaw blades.

 

What thickness are these blades, Jol? I saw these tools in John's superb book but failed miserably trying to replicate them.

[Gordon A]

I don't know how relevant this is, I am building the ex D&S 6 wheeled Midland brake van which I have modified by fitting Bill Bedford sprung W irons. This brake van's wheel base is a scale 5ft + 5ft.

I have found by testing that it will run through A5 points and runs round my test track which has been laid with 42" radius curves without any problems.

 

Gordon A

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

What thickness are these blades, Jol? I saw these tools in John's superb book but failed miserably trying to replicate them.

The scrapers are made from standard size hacksaw blades, probably Eclipse judging by the colour of the blue ones. They are .027" - .68mm thick. I don't know of the brand for the yellow chisel.

 

 John gave me the scrapers and chisel about 35 years ago. I have since made another couple of chisels from red Draper blades. They are okay but I made them a bit too short to hold comfortably and see the chisel end to ensure it is accurately located, 80mm is about right.

[Jol Wilkinson]

7 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

I don't know how relevant this is, I am building the ex D&S 6 wheeled Midland brake van which I have modified by fitting Bill Bedford sprung W irons. This brake van's wheel base is a scale 5ft + 5ft.

I have found by testing that it will run through A5 points and runs round my test track which has been laid with 42" radius curves without any problems.

 

Gordon A

Thanks Gordon,

 

the LNWR wheelbase is the same. I've made up one sliding axle with a 1.0mm Exactoscale steel axle, a piece of 2.0mm OD, 1.0mm ID brasstube and AGW split spoke wagon wheels, so I can try plain or pearl.

 

Making up this axle was a worthwhile test as I have several Mallard LNWR 6 wheel Fish Vans to build and may use that approach with those.

 

Jol

[57xx]

30 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

The scrapers are made from standard size hacksaw blades, probably Eclipse judging by the colour of the blue ones. They are .027" - .68mm thick. I don't know of the brand for the yellow chisel.

 

 John gave me the scrapers and chisel about 35 years ago. I have since made another couple of chisels from red Draper blades. They are okay but I made them a bit too short to hold comfortably and see the chisel end to ensure it is accurately located, 80mm is about right.

 

Thanks Jol, I'll have to get out in the workshop and give making them another try.

[Coal Tank]

Hi hi Jol any chance of a better photo of the D71

john 

 

ive just realised that the co ache in the tray isn't the D71 which diagram is it 

john 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Coal Tank