LNWR London Road - Locomotives and rolling stock

[Penlan]

In respect of the red ends to the Ballast Brake Vans, I painted my original scratch built brake vans some time before the 'LNWR Liveries' was thought about in the LNWR Society.
The possibility of the red ends is also based on the occasional photos I've seen of Ballast/Breakdown trains, where the half height end has been a distinctly darker colour (B/W photo's) such as at the Penmaenmawr washout in 1899
If I recall rightly, the red ends were 'copied' from a Geoff Williams van on Aylesbury, following one of the LNWR Society's very early visits to his layout, long before the Livery book, but all E.& O.E.

[PenrithBeacon]

Or perhaps with rocking W-irons. Not everybody wants to do CSB springs

[billbedford]

5 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Or perhaps with rocking W-irons. Not everybody wants to do CSB springs

 

I'm answering this on the mousa wagon thread

[Compound2632]

Apropos the pale planks on the brake van end in the film of Jeanie Deans (for she it is / for it is she). Compare the Midland covered goods wagon just left of centre in this line-up posted by Sandy @Penlan a couple of years ago:

That's certainly not a conversion or an unusual livery variant!

 

Caveat: photo is almost certainly post Great War.

[billbedford]

On 26/12/2020 at 12:16, t-b-g said:

 

I know some railways of that period painted the ends of their brake vans red and it made me wonder if some LNWR ones were perhaps red on just the top half. It somehow looks too neat and deliberate to me to be a repair.

 

 

It looks to me like a repair, and the planks had been pre-painted before fitting. Preparing materials in advance for jobs in the queue would be just the sort of workflow that I would expect from men who were doing piece-rate work. 

[t-b-g]

23 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

It looks to me like a repair, and the planks had been pre-painted before fitting. Preparing materials in advance for jobs in the queue would be just the sort of workflow that I would expect from men who were doing piece-rate work. 

 

You could very well be right. I just thought it interesting enough to ask the question.

 

[Chas Levin]

On 26/12/2020 at 11:15, Jol Wilkinson said:

The latest addition to the reference library.

 

 

An excellent new book from Peter Davis and jointly published with the LNWR Society.

 

My next loco builds are the LRM 2-4-0 Jumbo and Teutonic kits . The book has contains a rare photo of the Teutonic class "Adriatic"  (Jeannie Deans was the most photographed), taken in 1907 shortly before scrapping, so that will be very useful. There is also a detailed line drawing of Adriatic in 1895/7 condition when she ran in the Railway Race to the North.

Happy New Year Jol - I love that lined cover!

[Compound2632]

58 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

I love that lined cover!

 

It's uniform with Talbot's Illustrated History of LNWR Engines. But the black line between the cream and grey is a bit dodgy. isn't it?

[Chas Levin]

6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's uniform with Talbot's Illustrated History of LNWR Engines. But the black line between the cream and grey is a bit dodgy. isn't it?

Oh dear - I hadn't noticed that but yes, it shouldn't be there at all, should it?

My excuse for failing to comment on it myself is that I'm an LNER man really...

[PenrithBeacon]

My copy of the book arrived today from Bill Hudson, prompt service as always. 

I have only just started reading the book after thumbing through it and it seems to be a mixed bag. Wonderful illustrations, a lot of seriously good research marred by some poor typesetting and, this got me spitting feathers, calling Francis William Webb, Frank. In my view a good historian doesn't impose his own era on that of his subject. Poor form this: Webb would have been called Francis by family and close friends, Mr Webb by his social inferiors and plain Webb by his superiors at the LN&WR.

I have always wondered however, what a workshop foreman would have called a premium apprentice, does anyone know?

[Compound2632]

26 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I have always wondered however, what a workshop foreman would have called a premium apprentice, does anyone know?

 

To his face or behind his back?

[Jol Wilkinson]

Yes there should not be a gap between the grey and the cream, and the latter should also be narrower IIRC. 

 

However, that's a minor niggle, the book has lots of information, drawings and photos of use to modellers. It is on a par with the book on Coal "Tanks, Bashers, Gadgets and Mourners" and no LNWR enthusiast should be without either.

 

I am also looking forward to the Wild Swan book on Geoff William's Aylesbury, written by his son Bob.

[Coal Tank]

There is a video on U Tube on Aylesbury by its new owners. 

John 

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I am also looking forward to the Wild Swan book on Geoff William's Aylesbury, written by his son Bob.

 

1 hour ago, Coal Tank said:

There is a video on U Tube on Aylesbury by its new owners. 

John 

London Road, Aylesbury, Clarendon, Hope under Dinsmore and Buckingham - some of my favorite models

 

[PenrithBeacon]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To his face or behind his back?

Sauce!

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Sauce!

 

"Yes Mr Gresley Sir, of course, as you say sir."

 

" What a blinking Nigel. He'll come a cropper sooner or later!"

 

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I am also looking forward to the Wild Swan book on Geoff William's Aylesbury, written by his son Bob.

 

I considered myself privileged to see Aylesbury at RailEx at Stoke Mandeville a few years ago, having been in awe of it and its reputation since first encountering it an a Model Railway News from the late 1960s, that had been passed on to me in the mid 1970s. 

[Chas Levin]

On 26/12/2020 at 11:15, Jol Wilkinson said:

The latest addition to the reference library.

 

 

An excellent new book from Peter Davis and jointly published with the LNWR Society.

 

My next loco builds are the LRM 2-4-0 Jumbo and Teutonic kits . The book has contains a rare photo of the Teutonic class "Adriatic"  (Jeannie Deans was the most photographed), taken in 1907 shortly before scrapping, so that will be very useful. There is also a detailed line drawing of Adriatic in 1895/7 condition when she ran in the Railway Race to the North.

I shall follow your Teutonic build with great interest Jol, as I have one on order from John at LRM, though when it will be available given the current lockdown situation on top of previous supply delays I dare not guess. Mind you, that might work out quite well, as I have quite a number of other builds ahead of it in the queue, so by the time it arrives I might actually be ready to build it! That would be a first, as generally - like lots of others I'm sure - I don't get around to opening and building a kit until quite some time after aquiring it .

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hi Chas,

 

John phoned today but as we we just about to go out to my wife's hospital appointment, we didn't have much time to chat. He is very busy at present with lots of orders coming in. I forgot to ask him if the etches for the new 6 wheel LNWR brake van had turned up yet, so I'll speak to him again soon. I know that both etchers he uses have been busy and with long order times, which has held up packing some kits. He did say that Watford Post Office is "overwhelmed" which isn't helping either.

 

My own Teutonic will take some time as I am still waiting for the sign off from the eye surgeon before I book an appointment with my optician for new specs (if they are still open during lockdown). When I can take up kit building again I'll probably start with Teutonic tender, then move on to the chassis for the Jumbo and Teutonic, before building the bodies. I also want to finish lining the two locos and three carriages that went into store when we moved last March. So don't hold your breath! When the better weather arrives (?) I can then also start on the layout as I'll have to move the MGB out of the garage to do the carpentry.

 

Just to whet your appetite,  here is a picture of the final test build of the Teutonic chassis, now in John's hands as a display item on the LRM stand. It has working Joy valve gear, interesting to see in action.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chas Levin]

On 05/01/2021 at 22:36, Jol Wilkinson said:

Hi Chas,

 

John phoned today but as we we just about to go out to my wife's hospital appointment, we didn't have much time to chat. He is very busy at present with lots of orders coming in. I forgot to ask him if the etches for the new 6 wheel LNWR brake van had turned up yet, so I'll speak to him again soon. I know that both etchers he uses have been busy and with long order times, which has held up packing some kits. He did say that Watford Post Office is "overwhelmed" which isn't helping either.

 

My own Teutonic will take some time as I am still waiting for the sign off from the eye surgeon before I book an appointment with my optician for new specs (if they are still open during lockdown). When I can take up kit building again I'll probably start with Teutonic tender, then move on to the chassis for the Jumbo and Teutonic, before building the bodies. I also want to finish lining the two locos and three carriages that went into store when we moved last March. So don't hold your breath! When the better weather arrives (?) I can then also start on the layout as I'll have to move the MGB out of the garage to do the carpentry.

 

Just to whet your appetite,  here is a picture of the final test build of the Teutonic chassis, now in John's hands as a display item on the LRM stand. It has working Joy valve gear, interesting to see in action.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jol - appetite duly whetted. Lovely photos, different to the ones on the LRM site and very interesting to see both chassis and loco from different angles. I'm sure the  wokring valve gear looks excellent - I found a couple of vidoes on YouTube showing Joy valve gear and it is absolutely fascinating! Such an unusual looking motion...

There's no hurry for me - as I said, I have plenty of other things to keep me busy (my current C12 build is keeping me pretty busy right now) and I'm sure John has a lot to deal with.

Do you enjoy lining? What little lining I have done so far has been on teak coaches so I have yet to line my first loco; I recently read Ian Rathbone's book which made me feel a lot more confident as it has a lot of very interesting techniques in it.

[Coal Tank]

Just out of interest Jol Will the Teutonic be driven on one axle. If so what do you anticipate the hauling power Will be like

John 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Coal Tank

[Jol Wilkinson]

11 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Thanks Jol - appetite duly whetted. Lovely photos, different to the ones on the LRM site and very interesting to see both chassis and loco from different angles. I'm sure the  wokring valve gear looks excellent - I found a couple of vidoes on YouTube showing Joy valve gear and it is absolutely fascinating! Such an unusual looking motion...

There's no hurry for me - as I said, I have plenty of other things to keep me busy (my current C12 build is keeping me pretty busy right now) and I'm sure John has a lot to deal with.

Do you enjoy lining? What little lining I have done so far has been on teak coaches so I have yet to line my first loco; I recently read Ian Rathbone's book which made me feel a lot more confident as it has a lot of very interesting techniques in it.

Chas,

 

John is busy, but there are long lead times with the etchers so it might be worth enquiring about availability, etc. I used Sharman Wheels which are no longer available in the correct size, spokes, etc. Alan Gibson does a 7' 22 spoke wheel and if you don't fit the crankpin I think the front wheel hub is sufficiently well hidden behind the valve gear for it not to be noticeable.

 

Lining LNWR carriages is rather tedious but the result is worth the effort. I don't (can't?) follow Ian R's technique of lining around the inside edge of the beading so use the "cheat" approach that John Redrup showed me and I subsequently wrote up for MRJ #52. For locos I simply use waterslide transfers (Fox, Modelmaster) and HMRS pressfix for the upper cabsides. The only issues I have had is that sometimes the print registration is poor on the Modelmaster products and the corners don't always match the straight sections, so some sheets aren't much use.

 

10 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

Just out of interest Jol Will the Teutonic be driven on one a le. If so what do you anticipate the hauling power Will be like

John 

John,

 

I plan to drive the rear axle only, with my usual "underslung motor approach to leave some room in the firebox for ballast. The tender front  and center axles will be lightly slung and the front of the tender hang on the loco drag beam for more weight. 

 

Roger Stapleton (LNWR Steam Shed) built his 00 Teutonic with a small open frame motor (Hanazano LH21s, probably, which he prefers) driving each axle, partly because he wanted to produce a video of it running on his rolling road with the wheels rotating in opposite directions. If you knew Roger, you could understand!

 

Mashima 1015 would probably fit and be better than the Hanazano. They are still listed on the web if you do a search, for about £22 - £24.

 

As for pulling power, how long is a piece of string? Most of the stock I would run with the Teutonic will be 42' etched carriages so fairly light.

 

All this is really giving me the itch to get back to model making but until I get the sign off from the eye surgeon at Ipswich Hospital (still waiting for an appointment, not surprising given Covid19) I can't get a new prescription for glasses so I am effectively one eyed. That's okay for typing but no good for modelling. Very frustrating and depressing. 

 

[Coal Tank]

Thanks Jol

    I am close to ordering a other engine and the Teutonic is very tempting 

John 

[t-b-g]

On 05/01/2021 at 22:36, Jol Wilkinson said:

Hi Chas,

 

John phoned today but as we we just about to go out to my wife's hospital appointment, we didn't have much time to chat. He is very busy at present with lots of orders coming in. I forgot to ask him if the etches for the new 6 wheel LNWR brake van had turned up yet, so I'll speak to him again soon. I know that both etchers he uses have been busy and with long order times, which has held up packing some kits. He did say that Watford Post Office is "overwhelmed" which isn't helping either.

 

My own Teutonic will take some time as I am still waiting for the sign off from the eye surgeon before I book an appointment with my optician for new specs (if they are still open during lockdown). When I can take up kit building again I'll probably start with Teutonic tender, then move on to the chassis for the Jumbo and Teutonic, before building the bodies. I also want to finish lining the two locos and three carriages that went into store when we moved last March. So don't hold your breath! When the better weather arrives (?) I can then also start on the layout as I'll have to move the MGB out of the garage to do the carpentry.

 

Just to whet your appetite,  here is a picture of the final test build of the Teutonic chassis, now in John's hands as a display item on the LRM stand. It has working Joy valve gear, interesting to see in action.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That, Jol, looks gorgeous!

[Chas Levin]

Thanks Jol, info duly noted; I'll investigate the wheel situation in due course. I have an order in with John from a while back, to be fulfilled 'when available' but I might just enquire.

So sorry you're currently in limbo on the eye sign-off; as you say, in the current situation it's not surprising but that doesn't make it any easier for you! Hope you hear back about it soon...

[philip-griffiths]

Hello Jol,

 

do you know whether John R. has had time to look at the alternative frames for the 28’ 4-wheel carriages.  When I spoke to him last he said that it had come up the agenda because it had emerged that the chassis used on the SW Stock was also retrofit to the Birmingham/London carriages.

 

regards