Hulton Vale - Fictitious BR/LMS Branch Terminus

[TomChapfallen]

Hi there, and welcome.

 

I've been lurking on the forums as a guest for the best part of the last ten years, but I thought it was finally time to pull the trigger and get something started.

 

I've been into railway modelling since I was young, but truthfully, I have never really been good at it insofar as I go at thinks like a bull-in-a-china shop, spend a ton of money, and get overwhelmed or demotivated! Things never end up looking quite right, or I bite off more than I can chew, and so I want to start something, see it through to its completion, and ideally, slow down and enjoy the progress (which I'll be forced to do if I'm trying to update anyone on here on my progress).

 

To that end, may I present the start of things to come: Hulton Vale - a fictitious LMS branch line terminus, somewhere in Staffordshire; the specific details of its location are still up for discussion, but I was toying with the idea of placing it, geographically speaking, as an imaginary line that deviated from the Silverdale - Market Drayton Branch on the North Staffordshire Railway, purely for the excuse of getting in a glorious GWR 14xx and Autocoach, that, may well be an awful cliché, but I have been in love with that train since I first saw Oliver and Toad on Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends as a child.

 

The track plan is as follows, and is unashamedly based on Woodstowe, but with a few minor tweaks to fit my needs (the obvious example being that I've knocked 2 feet off the length!) and will be on two separate 900mm x 600mm boards, with a further board to act as a ladder-style fiddle yard. Other layouts of influence are Hintock by the late, great John Flann, and Much Murkle, by Nick Wood. (What makes me laugh is that I have just realised that they are all GWR layouts, but I am a faithful LMS man!).

 

I can't say that I hope to match the same standards as the aforementioned modellers, and the layout will very much rely on my imagination, but my overall aim is to try and capture some of the ex-NSR essence in a handsome little package. Track will be Peco Code 100 Streamline out of necessity, but other than that, the only thing I am more or less certain of is the track plan itself, and the fact that the setting is Staffordshire in LMS days (with a possible change of time now and again to run some BR stock).

 

Baseboard size is unfortunately non-negotiable, as I have precious little room available, and I can't physically manage the typical "4x2" boards myself once the scenery is in place. The above size is a very happy compromise between comfortable working space, and maintaining a happy living environment at home with the parents - its said in our house that, 'whenever you see Tom with a tape measure, you start panicking - you're about to lose the kitchen table/living room/spare room etc"!

 

Happy to talk over anything, and I hope this sparks some interest!

[tractionman]

sounds terrific, I do like LMS branchline termini!

 

some discussion also here in case of interest:

 

 

keep us posted on progress!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

 

 

[Gordon A]

Trap point for the two back sidings?

 

Gordon A

[TomChapfallen]

Thankyou very much for the link tractionman, I will definitely check that out once I get back later. I've always wondered how someone takes a map and transforms it into a layout, because there's actually a (former) station nearby where the track plan looks a lot like the one shown on the thumbnail - Bucknall and Northwood on the old Stoke-Leek line.

 

Gordon A - silly me! I actually had intended on using trap points on this layout, but clearly forgot to put them in, so thanks for reminding me on that. Which way would they face in the instance above?

 

Tom

[TomChapfallen]

6 hours ago, tractionman said:

sounds terrific, I do like LMS branchline termini!

 

some discussion also here in case of interest:

 

 

keep us posted on progress!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

Double post; oops!

 

Keith, having looked through that thread, I do have to say I found a few nice images. Of particular note were Buntingford, if only for that lovely station front, which is exactly how I imagined Hulton Vale would look, and Holmfirth, for the pretty buildings, and how 'green' everything was in the 50s! (Links below):

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/buntingford/

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/holmfirth/index.shtml

 

Also, the layout you describe at Barnoldswick looks interesting, purely because I designed my track plan around the idea of being able to extend it from both sides at the future, and, should I decide to keep it as a terminus instead of a through station, having the loco shed and further sidings located past the station would certainly look very attractive.

 

5 hours ago, Gordon A said:

Trap point for the two back sidings?

 

Gordon A

 

Gordon, having looked again at my plan, and as I stated, I forgot to put them in, I have attached a plan with where I imagine the trap points should go (marked with arrows). The red dots are where I anticipate that I will need to install magnets for uncoupling, although I plan on printing the design at 100% and 'playing trains' for a bit to see if this is correct.

 

 

Finally, and I apologise for the length of the post, they do say pictures are worth a thousand words, so I thought it might be prudent to show a few of the books that I've been looking to for inspiration (and best yet, they're mine and not from a library, because I'm a self-confessed bibliophile - I imagine thanks to the English degree!)

 

 

Now, more planning!

 

Tom

[Luke123]

Hi Tom,

I'm willing to be corrected as i'm not majorly experienced with these things, but i don't think you need the upper most trap point.

My understanding is that they are to protect the main running line, so the trap that you have placed to the left of the cattle dock would carry out that function.

 

Luke

[TomChapfallen]

10 minutes ago, l_robbo_101 said:

Hi Tom,

I'm willing to be corrected as i'm not majorly experienced with these things, but i don't think you need the upper most trap point.

My understanding is that they are to protect the main running line, so the trap that you have placed to the left of the cattle dock would carry out that function.

 

Luke

 

No, by all means, I really think you're right on that - I wondered it myself as I was putting them on to the plan - at £9 a pop, I'd rather not stick it on for the sake of it, when, like you, I'm under the impression that only the other two are the ones that are critical.

 

Tom

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Likewise the bottom-most trap on the goods(?) siding; it's not required because the headshunt forms the trap. 

 

Watching with interest, I like an LMS layout 

[Titanius Anglesmith]

42 minutes ago, l_robbo_101 said:

Hi Tom,

I'm willing to be corrected as i'm not majorly experienced with these things, but i don't think you need the upper most trap point.

My understanding is that they are to protect the main running line, so the trap that you have placed to the left of the cattle dock would carry out that function.

 

Luke

 

Just a thought.... If the cattle dock siding is just that, I completely agree. But if it's a passenger bay then the upper trap point is needed. 

[TomChapfallen]

26 minutes ago, Titanius Anglesmith said:

 

Just a thought.... If the cattle dock siding is just that, I completely agree. But if it's a passenger bay then the upper trap point is needed. 

 

Thankyou, I thought as much. That bay will definitely be for cattle only; I only anticipate that the bottom bay, which I had in mind for parcels, could also serve as a passenger platform for a shuttle.

[Gordon A]

Hi Tom,

 

You only need the one trap point to protect the main line from unauthorised moves.

If you move the left hand trap further left you could still carry out some limited moves between the two sidings, or you could replace the trap point with a right hand point and a short length of track giving you a head shunt.

If the lower siding is a passenger bay then a trap is not required. If it is a freight platform where wagons are left, then yes.

 

Gordon A

[tractionman]

7 hours ago, TomChapfallen said:

Thankyou very much for the link tractionman, I will definitely check that out once I get back later. I've always wondered how someone takes a map and transforms it into a layout, because there's actually a (former) station nearby where the track plan looks a lot like the one shown on the thumbnail - Bucknall and Northwood on the old Stoke-Leek line.

 

 

hi Tom,

 

I tend to start with the historic OS maps on NLS eg:

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.0231&lon=-2.1562&layers=168&b=1

 

Then using the map scale-bar I can convert to 4mm to 1 foot, and use AnyRail to draw up an approximate track-plan to scale, as I did for Barnoldswick:

 

 

 

It's a bit rough and I use Peco points so there are compromises!

 

I like the look of Kirkburton too:

 

 

I can wile away loads of time doing this, dreaming of yet unbuilt layouts...!

 

all best wishes,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

[jazzer]

Hi Tom, instead of a trap point on the top yard it will be better if you can fit it a headshunt, even a short one so you don’t have to run on the main line when shunting. The will then serve the same safety function as a trap point.

 

You will need to fit a Goods shed in one of the sidings. Remember that when these rural branch lines were built their primary function was freight, particularly farm produce. Try to work out provision for a small coal yard, perhaps next to the cattle dock. Those rural villages were dependent on railways for coal until the early 60’s , some even into the 70’s. Like most modellers you suffer from lack of space, but it look like a good basic plan

 

 

[TomChapfallen]

10 hours ago, jazzer said:

Hi Tom, instead of a trap point on the top yard it will be better if you can fit it a headshunt, even a short one so you don’t have to run on the main line when shunting. The will then serve the same safety function as a trap point.

 

You will need to fit a Goods shed in one of the sidings. Remember that when these rural branch lines were built their primary function was freight, particularly farm produce. Try to work out provision for a small coal yard, perhaps next to the cattle dock. Those rural villages were dependent on railways for coal until the early 60’s , some even into the 70’s. Like most modellers you suffer from lack of space, but it look like a good basic plan

 

 

 

Thanks for the input! As per your suggestion, I've had a play about and came up with two locations for the headshunt. This could be extended and have the coal yard on the end as shown in the plans (but obviously would be longer than what is shown. I've also provided a basic outline of the different scenic items to be included. I would consider the below a simple 'sketch' of what's intended because obviously I'll arrange the non-essential buildings and landscape in a way that is aesthetically pleasing once it comes to the real thing. (The zig-zag denotes the start of the ash ballast, in case anyone was wondering).

 

As for the goods shed, I'm toying with the location shown, or even switching around the cattle dock and goods shed, and making a model that resembles the goods shed at Blythe Bridge whereby the roof was extended outwards and onto the passenger platform to provide a shelter. Either way suits, though I know that a goods shed similar to Blythe Bridge would require a kitbash/scratchbuild (which to clarify, wouldn't be a problem). Image taken from wikipedia, though I have other views of it in the books shown previously.

 

 

I get what you're saying as regards the need for coal in the rural villages. In Stoke-on-Trent, we were fortunate (if that's even the right word) to have a number of local deep pits and collieries (not just coal, but iron, clay etc) to cater to our needs, and so I imagine the traffic would be nearly daily, especially in the winter as the demand increased - though this does of course provide the scope for a number of different types of wagon on the layout (especially as I've amassed a small collection of PO wagons from a number of different businesses in the area (Goldendale Iron Co, Chatterley Whitfield Colliery, and so on).

 

It's rather surreal around here in terms of the juxtaposition of urban/rural. You can drive five minutes in one direction and you'd be in the heart of the old factory/manufacturing complexes that use to exist, or go the other way and be met with some of the most luscious greenery I've ever seen in my life!

 

All the best and hope everyone isn't bored yet.

 

Tom

[Danemouth]

Tom,

IMHO the first plan is the better of the two. In the second plan you would still need a trap point to protect the running line from traffic in the cattle dock siding.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Izzy]

I would also say the first (latest) plan is best, but my reasoning may be different. Firstly the headshunt is of no use if used as a permanent siding, but is probably too short to work with anything longer than a very small tank engine and a couple of wagons. Better to site the cattle pens here, put the goods shed behind the platform in their place, and have the long siding to the rear for coal etc. Mostly you would have to shunt wagons via the main line and the fiddle yard anyway with the track plan you have.

 

Izzy

[TomChapfallen]

19 hours ago, Danemouth said:

Tom,

IMHO the first plan is the better of the two. In the second plan you would still need a trap point to protect the running line from traffic in the cattle dock siding.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

Dave, I thought that myself as I was putting the plans together. I guess that settles it. 

 

9 hours ago, Izzy said:

I would also say the first (latest) plan is best, but my reasoning may be different. Firstly the headshunt is of no use if used as a permanent siding, but is probably too short to work with anything longer than a very small tank engine and a couple of wagons. Better to site the cattle pens here, put the goods shed behind the platform in their place, and have the long siding to the rear for coal etc. Mostly you would have to shunt wagons via the main line and the fiddle yard anyway with the track plan you have.

 

Izzy

 

Izzy - perfect! I think sometimes the answers are so obviously staring you in the face, but sometimes you need someone to give you that nudge in the right direction. 

 

Siting the cattle dock where you suggested would work perfectly, allow me to have a bash at modelling the goods shed at Blythe Bridge, and, to my mind, make the layout feel a little more 'open,' shall we say? 

 

It calls to mind the cattle dock at Rolleston-on-Dove, another NSR platform but nearer to the Uttoxeter-Derby lines, and in that way, helps my terminus become an amalgam of all of my favourite features. 

 

On a side note, I've been looking into uncouplers for the layout. It was my intention to slowly upgrade all of my rolling stock and locos to those with NEM pockets fitted as standard, and then to fit Kadees as I like the look of them, but, I didn't realise that they were quite so temperamental, and that the electromagnets were £20 a pop! 

 

Thoughts? 

 

Tom

[5BarVT]

I’m trying Kadees at the moment. You don’t need as many electromagnets as you would normal uncouplers and some can be permanents too.  I suggest that you get a few Kadees to fit some stock that you will shunt initially and a couple of above rail magnets (cos they’re ‘cheap’). I bluetacked mine in position for the trial. Then you can see exactly where magnets are needed and get a feel for whether fixed or electro are what you need. Once that is settled, then replace with electro or under track permanent as required.  Over track get relegated to fiddle Yard use.  Don’t glue or ballast track ‘til magnets are sorted!!!

There are sone good articles in here about Kadees and some good ideas in some layout threads.  Camel Quay has some good info in the early build part.

HTH,

Paul.

[TomChapfallen]

16 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I’m trying Kadees at the moment. You don’t need as many electromagnets as you would normal uncouplers and some can be permanents too.  I suggest that you get a few Kadees to fit some stock that you will shunt initially and a couple of above rail magnets (cos they’re ‘cheap’). I bluetacked mine in position for the trial. Then you can see exactly where magnets are needed and get a feel for whether fixed or electro are what you need. Once that is settled, then replace with electro or under track permanent as required.  Over track get relegated to fiddle Yard use.  Don’t glue or ballast track ‘til magnets are sorted!!!

There are sone good articles in here about Kadees and some good ideas in some layout threads.  Camel Quay has some good info in the early build part.

HTH,

Paul.

 

Paul, thankyou for the insight into your process. I think I'll do just that when I get around to making the baseboards (pay day can't come quick enough!) 

 

As an aside, I've drawn up a very rough sketch of Cheddleton Station on the Churnet Valley Line as it has a bit of everything I'm looking for in an NSR style station, and provided I get rid of the little store-type building, it will fit into the available footprint I've suggested on the Anyrail plans. 

 

Apologies that it might not be all that clear, but I thought people may appreciate a look at where I'm heading with the project. 

 

Tom

 

[TomChapfallen]

Quick update:

 

I've been having a play around again on Anyrail. I'm aware that the following isn't prototypical, but, looking at how much more neat everything appears, I have to say that I like the outcome. I intended to compromise and run two-coach trains, but now I can definitely fit three in the loop.

 

 

The cattle dock is built up from two Ratio kits; the goods shed will still be scratch built to look like the shed at Blythe Bridge, and the two huts to the left of the board join are concrete-type provender stores, and I'll scratch build those from pictures I have available in my LMS Architecture book.

 

Having drawn up more sketches on the station building, I've mocked up the following on TinkerCAD. It's my first tentative step into the world of CAD and honestly, I'm just using it to check on proportions - the mock up doesn't take into account the fancy gables on NSR buildings, and admittedly, I was thinking about making them into the curved type found on buildings in the city centre, rather than the 'blocky' ones on the actual Cheddleton building.

 

And here is an example of the curved gables, as seen on the North Stafford Hotel opposite Stoke Station:

 

Comments and suggestions are always appreciated.

 

Tom

 

[Izzy]

 Hi Tom,

 

A couple more thoughts if I may. Whatever you decide with the track plan, if you intend to run passenger trains into the lower/shorter platform at any time, then the bottom siding, (which I presume is behind the platform rather than another platform face), will need a trap. I am also not quite sure whether the Blythe Bridge goods shed with passenger shelter will look right/fit in with being next to a station building since it is on the opposite side to the main station building on a double track line.

 

Izzy

[TomChapfallen]

Pic heavy update!

 

After taking the above into consideration, I actually decided to 'flip' the layout around and I have to say, I'm incredibly happy with the result:

 

As you can see, I've added a trap to the goods shed siding, and the goods shed itself can now be built in line with Blythe Bridge.

 

While I wait for pay day to pick up wood and other materials, I decided to make a start on the station building itself. After coming up with detailed drawings, and checking the proportions on the 3D mock-up, I transferred the drawings on to an A1 piece of mountboard. Usually I'd be using A4 but, it was only £3 for an A1 sheet and despite the difficulty of working with something that size, there has been significantly less wastage, and having everything in my line of sight was really useful. In future, I will definitely do the same again and just use a bigger sheet!

 

 

Anyway, this is the station design that I'm going for, although I should state that I want it to be a representation rather than a 1:1 copy. I took this picture and a few others for reference, and, whilst I felt a little embarrassed at first walking around with a tape measure and notepad, the staff were actually really helpful and seemed to take an interest in the project (and even held the tape measure for some longer measurements!)

 

And here is a rough guide to the type of weathering I'll eventually be going for, again, taken on site.

 

I did take a 360 degree video of the card building, tacked together with masking tape so that I could show my partner the progress, but obviously, the file isn't supported.

 

In this case, you'll have to take my word for it - it's looking pretty good so far!

 

Tom

 

[1722]

On 12/06/2019 at 19:01, TomChapfallen said:

as an imaginary line that deviated from the Silverdale - Market Drayton Branch on the North Staffordshire Railway, 

 Sounds great, the Market Drayton - Stoke line has high interest for me; would dearly love to model Norton-in-Hales Station. 

 

Followed. 

[TomChapfallen]

Update time!

 

After a few monster night shifts, I've barely had time to do anything but pay day arrived and so I purchased the wood for the baseboards.

 

Gus the Railway Inspector is keen that more progress be made so that he can retake his place in front of the fire (yes, even in Summer!)

 

 

[TomChapfallen]

All the track has now been purchased and while I wait for them do be delivered, I've done a little more work on the station building.

 

I've also dropped on a second-hand DCC controller for next to nothing so I thought might be a good chance to finally take the steps towards upgrading and improving my collection.