Tank wagons on the S&DJR ?

[03060]

Does anybody know of any photos of tank wagons, other than milk tanks, out running on the S&DJR, please ?

 

Ideally I would like something in the 1920s to 30s but would be just as interested in anything later. I know both Emborough Quarries and Read & Son owned tank wagons for carrying  tar (S&DJR Loco and Rolling Stock Registers) but did Shell, Esso or BP tanks make an appearance in ones or twos ....or maybe (hopefully) John Robinson & Co Seed Crushers of Bristol ? I have photos of some of these wagons in my collection of wagon books.

 

I have been 'given' a box with 4 tank barrels and a couple of chassis kits in it so am currently looking out for suitable potentials to model, although I am aware that the subject looks like a bit of a minefield ...hence the desire for some photos.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited June 13, 2019 by 03060
Extra info added.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Ian,

 

My apologies for using your query by expanding the search, worse still, I cannot providecan answer.

 

However, was there any significant non-dairy tanker traffic on the SDJR, apart from during WW2? 

 

Scouring the various picture albums* and Graces reveals a very rural agri-based economy with the North Somerset coal traffic as the notable exception - otherwise, what else?

 

*Peter's 1950 Vol2 102-103 one solitary tank wagon, both images of the same train.

 

cheers

 

Jack

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Ian,

 

My apologies for using your query by expanding the search, worse still, I cannot providecan answer.

 

However, was there any significant non-dairy tanker traffic on the SDJR, apart from during WW2? 

 

Scouring the various picture albums and Graces reveals a very rural agri-based economy with the North Somerset coal traffic as the notable exception - otherwise, what else?

 

cheers

 

Jack

 

 

There was quite a lot of quarrying on the northern part of the line, with tank wagons being used for tar and bitumen. A notable rail user was 'Roads Reconstruction (1934) Ltd', who had a main works and quarry at Mell's Road, and sidings at Binegar, Masbury, Radstock and elsewhere. I believe that, in later years, they were part of ARC, who still operate Whatley Quarry.

The extreme south of the line had several military establishments.

[Guest Jack Benson]

44 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

There was quite a lot of quarrying on the northern part of the line, with tank wagons being used for tar and bitumen. A notable rail user was 'Roads Reconstruction (1934) Ltd', who had a main works and quarry at Mell's Road, and sidings at Binegar, Masbury, Radstock and elsewhere. I believe that, in later years, they were part of ARC, who still operate Whatley Quarry.

The extreme south of the line had several military establishments.

 Several military establishments? 

 

RS Blandford and HMS Dipper, neither rail connected.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

 Several military establishments? 

 

RS Blandford and HMS Dipper, neither rail connected.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

Blandford was receiving traffic by rail, perhaps via the local goods yard, until the end of the 1960s. I believe it also received fertiliser traffic from Avonmouth.

I'd thought that West Moors fuel depot was on the S&DJR, but it seems to have been on the S&DR

[Guest Jack Benson]

2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Blandford was receiving traffic by rail, perhaps via the local goods yard, until the end of the 1960s. I believe it also received fertiliser traffic from Avonmouth.

I'd thought that West Moors fuel depot was on the S&DJR, but it seems to have been on the S&DR

As the thread concerned tank wagons on the SDJR - fertiliser traffic to Bradfords is not relevant moreover it is unlikely to be military traffic.

 

Defence Fuels exRLC West Moors was rail connected to the SDJR - just the wrong SDJR (not S&DR).

 

And no response to the comment about 'Several military establishments'?  In fact the only dubious connection to any military establishment on the 'extreme' south of the line would have been the pumping station near Sturminster Marshall to RNOF Holton Heath which was rail connected but to the exLSWR line.

 

I also cannot understand why 'tank wagons being used for tar and bitumen' were situated at any stone quarry, surely the quarry was solely used for the extraction of stone rather than a base for road mending?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

 

[RailWest]

>>> Defence Fuels exRLC West Moors was rail connected to the SDJR - just the wrong SDJR (not S&DR).

 

But if you look at the track plan, whilst it may have been close to the end of the S&DJR the actual connection was to the S&DR :-)

[Guest Jack Benson]

17 minutes ago, RailWest said:

>>> Defence Fuels exRLC West Moors was rail connected to the SDJR - just the wrong SDJR (not S&DR).

 

But if you look at the track plan, whilst it may have been close to the end of the S&DJR the actual connection was to the S&DR :-)

To be factually correct, it was connected to the S&DJR via the S&DR.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

[Fat Controller]

22 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

As the thread concerned tank wagons on the SDJR - fertiliser traffic to Bradfords is not relevant moreover it is unlikely to be military traffic.

 

Defence Fuels exRLC West Moors was rail connected to the SDJR - just the wrong SDJR (not S&DR).

 

And no response to the comment about 'Several military establishments'?  In fact the only dubious connection to any military establishment on the 'extreme' south of the line would have been the pumping station near Sturminster Marshall to RNOF Holton Heath which was rail connected but to the exLSWR line.

 

I also cannot understand why 'tank wagons being used for tar and bitumen' were situated at any stone quarry, surely the quarry was solely used for the extraction of stone rather than a base for road mending?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

 

I had mis-remembered the various defence establshments- my apologies.

Regarding quarries; to this day, many still have coating plants. In earlier times, the coated stone would be delivered by rail to the nearest  railhead. Bitumen, or tar, would be brought in by rail. This traffic persisted, albeit not on the S&DJR, but to Cranmore (on the Cheddar Valley line),into the 1980s. 

There is a photo of a 'Roads Reconstruction' rectangular tank at Mell's Road in Volume 2 of 'Non-Pool Freight Stock 1948- 1968' by David Larkin. In the accompanying text, he lists some of the other sites served, at least some of which were on the former S&DJR.

[Guest Jack Benson]

38 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

There is a photo of a 'Roads Reconstruction' rectangular tank at Mell's Road in Volume 2 of 'Non-Pool Freight Stock 1948- 1968' by David Larkin. In the accompanying text, he lists some of the other sites served, at least some of which were on the former S&DJR.

Hi Brian,

 

Most interesting and relevant to the original query by 03060 but despite extensive searches, albeit, using less than helpful picture albums and Graces, I have been unable to locate any other activity at quarries attached to the SDJR other than the initial extraction of stone.

 

This website mentions the coating plant established at Mells Road in 1934 but it should be noted that Mells Road was not a SDJR station but part of the GWR on the Bristol and North Somerset Railway.

 

The only mention of a coating plant actually near the SDJR was at Binegar but this was not installed until 2001 and outside the timeframe of the SDJR.

 

Therefore, were any of the quarries served by the SDJR actually coating plants, possibly not.

 

Possibly another source of liquid by-products would have been town gasworks - Bath was rail connected, would this have been a source?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Fat Controller]

Tar from gasworks would have been taken to a specialist tar distillers, to have the most valuable by-products removed. One such was my former employers , William Butler (latterly Tenneco), though the 'Butler' name survives in 'Butler Oil Products'. The heaviest distillates would be sold as tar for road surfacing; this traffic would have greatly increased just prior to WW2, when a national programme of upgrading roads took place. 

Larkin lists a number of locations on the S&DJR where Roads Reconstruction had a presence.

These included :-

Binegar

Chilcompton

Masbury

The tanks would have been anonymous rectangular ones, easily mistaken for mineral wagons at a distance.

Other potential sources of tank traffic might include motor spirit; this was often delivered to country goods yards by rail tank, then either loaded into road tankers, or stored in steel drums. Unloading would have been by hand-pump, so, if there wasn't a tank present, the only evidence of such activity might be a stack of drums.

 

[phil_sutters]

Read & Sons (Binegar) Ltd had at least one cylindrical tar tank wagon, built by R.Y. Pickering of Wishaw, as illustrated in Richard Kelham's PO wagons of Somerset. It was numbered 3 and registered with the GWR in 1904 as no. 64071 The company was sold to Roads Reconstruction Ltd in 1934. 

Apart from that one example of cylindrical tank wagon the book has no others illustrated.

The Eclipse Fuel Company works at the western end of Highbridge Wharf had a large pitch reservoir, but none of the photos of the wharf, that I have seen shows it and among the many goods wagons to be seen on the wharf there are no tank wagons, cylindrical or rectangular.

 

[RailWest]

The S&DJR had at least one twin-barrel gas tank storage wagon for conveying gas for carriage lighting etc, but I don't know when they stopped using them.

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, RailWest said:

The S&DJR had at least one twin-barrel gas tank storage wagon for conveying gas for carriage lighting etc, but I don't know when they stopped using them.

 

I'm not positive about the S&DJR/Midland ones but they were still in use well into the 1960s. They were mainly used for catering vehicles rather than lighting by then.

 

 

Jason

[dube]

From all the books I have there’s just one photo of a single 14 ton tank wagon, freight seems to be mostly vans, opens and minerals 

 

[IWCR]

Dont know of a specific S&D one but many town goods yards had a small scale oil terminal  at  one time, generally for Naptha  (Paraffin),  this would  be one or two raised storage tanks and a small hut for  the pump, supplied by a single tank wagon as required.  The  Anglo  American Oil Co was one company with "Royal Daylight" branded tank wagons.  This traffic was much reduced by the 1920's with the spread of electricity and the use of motor lorries for deliveries.

 

Pete

 

[RailWest]

11 hours ago, IWCR said:

Dont know of a specific S&D one but many town goods yards had a small scale oil terminal  at  one time, generally for Naptha  (Paraffin),  this would  be one or two raised storage tanks and a small hut for  the pump, supplied by a single tank wagon as required.  The  Anglo  American Oil Co was one company with "Royal Daylight" branded tank wagons.  This traffic was much reduced by the 1920's with the spread of electricity and the use of motor lorries for deliveries.

 

Pete

 

Ah, that reminds me that there was an oil depot at Wells (Priory Road) - the photo is circa-1948. However I don't know if the tank traffic came via the S&DJR or GWR.

[bécasse]

1 hour ago, RailWest said:

Ah, that reminds me that there was an oil depot at Wells (Priory Road) - the photo is circa-1948. However I don't know if the tank traffic came via the S&DJR or GWR.

It is an Anglo-American (ie Esso) vehicle probably originating from the refinery at Fawley - so it may well have journeyed over the SDJR.

[Malc2085]

This tank wagon was actually in the yard of Tincknell and Sons, Agricultural Merchants which was directly opposite the Priory Road S & D Station.  The yard was accessed via the S & D branch from Glastonbury but of course in BR days when Priory Road was the only remaining goods facility in Wells the branch was the head shunt for the yard.  The water tank in the picture was by the S & D Engine Shed.   There is a picture in one of the Cheddar Valley Line books of an Esso Tanker in the same siding.  Tinknells supplied fuel (and still do) to Farms in a wide area of central Somerset.  

[phil_sutters]

This was taken by my Dad in 1954 - and sandwiched between a pannier and a GWR Toad ........................

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by phil_sutters
Replacement of lost photos.

[03060]

Apologies to everyone who has replied so far as I have been on holiday since I posted the request.

 

Just before I went I managed to come up with 4 photos myself, although one is the same 1949 image as shown above in the post by RailWest (thanks Chris and Becasse) as seen in Middleton Press's Burnham to Evercreech Junction book, image 93, there is also a glimpse through the shed in photo 94 as well as either a van or 'shed' with the ESSO emblem on it's end. This would probably tie in with Phil's Dad's photo above. I had also found the reference and photo to the Read and Son's tar tank(s) noted again by Phil.

 

Photo 91 in Middleton Press's Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction shows a single black fuel tanker (?) on the long, curved siding at Templecombe shed in amongst a line of wagons which includes PO opens and large lettered company vans so I can 'hopefully assume' this undated photo is from the 1920/30 period. The only detail that I can make out is a white star on the bottom right hand side of the tank cylinder, although there is possibly a letter 'B' and the number 1682 on the solebar but this is just a guess on my part. I've managed to borrow a copy of Tourret's Petroleum Rail Tank Wagons so I'll see if I can verify that.

 

The 4th photo I've found shows the end of tank wagon 1201 at Bath Junction in 1953 (p.102 in Ian Allan's S&DJR View From The Past by Stephen Austin) but again I don't know whether this wagon had actually worked over the S&DJR route or not.

 

It seems that tank wagons were rare beasts on the line (excepting milk and wartime movements / storage) but I've got something to look at modelling now in regard of the kits that I've been given (there are some ESSO transfers in the box) ....I think a Read and Son's tar tank and an all black petrol tank may also appear....and just for 'Rule 1' devilment ....a model of John Robinson & Co's Seed Crushers of Bristol tank wagon No.3 as shown on the cover of PO Wagons of Bristol & District by Ian Pope for no other reason than I used to give a lift to a now deceased fellow 3mm Society member of the same name.

 

Thanks again for all of the contributions.

Regards,

Ian.

Edited June 29, 2019 by 03060
Corrections

[03060]

A few more glimpses....

 

P.80 The S&D Then &Now (Mac Hawkins) - Cross strapped tank wagon in the freight train used during the 1954 BTF film about 'Emergency Single Line Working.' I've re-watched this but the tank wagon can only really be seen near the end of the film when the train is being banked and the camera is looking down the train from the roof of the banker.

 

Same publication p.220 a smallish tank wagon in a short train consisting of a 6 wheel parcels van, (possibly) an S&D carriage, tank wagon and a corrugated ended van all sat in the bay platform at Wells Priory Road station in 1934.

 

Historical Survey of the S&D (Oxford Pub) - p.60 some sort of tank wagon just visible in the background above the platform canopy at Wincanton.

P.114 Black cross strapped tank wagon with white lettering (possibly No.42 ?) sat in a siding behind Highbridge East 'C' signal box in 1966.

P.124 and p.126 two more individuals in the oil siding at Wells, one black and one grey (with a not quite legible number 2xxx) both undated.

 

P.117 in the Norman Lockett Archive shows a Black tank wagon (484 ?) in the Midland Bridge Road Goods Depot at Bath 1958.

 

The Gas tank wagon mentioned in an earlier post is quite clearly seen still in use at Bath Green Park in 1954 on p.38 of Brian Macdermott's Modellers Guide to the S&D. (NB Maybe an LMS version ?)

 

Frustratingly I came across another photo in a book last week showing a similar looking cross strapped wagon to the one in the BTF film out on the line (in a train possibly crossing the under repair Bath Road viaduct in 1946) ....but can't now find it again to record here ! ....nearly 51 and losing it already !!

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by 03060
Correction.

[03060]

Found it ....but it but totally the wrong train description.

 

P.127 Radstock Coal &Steam Vol.1 a nice close view of a Black cross strapped tank, No.54, in a 1966 view of a Hymek hauled train at Radstock station heading for Bristol, frustratingly I can't make out the wording on the side of the tank which is very nearly legible .....any ideas, please ?

 

I also managed to miss another tank wagon in the very last northbound freight train to Bath from Writhlington (p.122) which a shows silver/grey tank (660 or 860 ?) being hauled by 8F 48760.

 

Interestingly I've also noticed some GRAIN wagons in the sidings at Radstock in Vol.2 p.152, two steel hopper type and one wooden van with twin roof doors ....any thoughts anybody ??

 

Regards,

Ian.

[03060]

According to Mr. Magg's S&D Life on the ...etc ....(p.155/6) an empty oil tank was one of the 37 wagons involved in the tragic accident at Bath on 20th November 1929, along with 32 loaded P.O wagons, 3 empty wagons and a 20T brake van hauled by 7F No.89 with an incapcitated crew. So far I've only found 5 photos of the incident although the London press photographers rushed to the scene apparently.

 

So far I've not come up with more than one non milk tank wagon being seen a train at any one time ....which suits my modelling time constraints and nothing South of Templecombe yet, either.

 

Hope this all of interest to somebody ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited September 29, 2019 by 03060
More photos found.