Ffarquhar - North Western Region of British Railways

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

That class 40 has a strange number D471 is somewhat past the last of the class, D399, even the clas 50's stopped at D449.

 

Gibbo.

 

I don't know the Class 40s in detail, so I appreciate the education on this. Some of the illustrations crop the image slightly, but it's number I believe is D4711 (and from what I infer you are saying, is an entirely fictional number)

 

I would quite like to model this locomotive as it appearance on the NWR fits within my modelling period. Another I'd be interested to represent was D199 (a Peak I believe, again though I'm presuming the number isn't prototypical).

 

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, 9793 said:

 

I don't know the Class 40s in detail, so I appreciate the education on this. Some of the illustrations crop the image slightly, but it's number I believe is D4711 (and from what I infer you are saying, is an entirely fictional number)

 

I would quite like to model this locomotive as it appearance on the NWR fits within my modelling period. Another I'd be interested to represent was D199 (a Peak I believe, again though I'm presuming the number isn't prototypical).

 

Hi Tom,

 

Having looked at the appropriate book I can tell you that D199 resembles a type of peak but does not have number carried by a class 46 and 7101 is not a number carried class 35 either.

 

Below are all the number series for the pre TOPS numbered Diesels:

• Class 15 D8200 - D8243
• Class 16 D8400 - D8409
• Class 17 D8500 - D8616
• Class 20 D8000 - D8327
• Class 21 D6100 - D6157
• Class 22 D6300 - D6357
• Class 23 D5900 - D5909
• Class 24 D5000 - D5150
• Class 25 D5151 - D5299 / D7500 - D7677
• Class 26 D5300 - D5346
• Class 27 D5347 - D5415
• Class 28 D5700 - D5719
• Class 31 D5500 - D5699 / D5800 - D5862
• Class 33 D6500 - D6597
• Class 35 7000 - 7100
• Class 37  D6600 - D6608 / D6700 - D6999
• Class 40 D200 - D399
• Class 41 D600 - D604
• Class 42/3 D800 - D870
• Class 44 D1- D10
• Class 45 D11 - D137
• Class 46 D138 - D193
• Class 47 D1100 - D1111 / D1500 - D1999
• Class 50 D400 -D449
• Class 52 1000 - 1073
• Class 53 D0280 / D1200
• Class 55 9000 -9021
• Deltic DP1
• DP2
• Kestrel HS4000
• Lion D0260

Gibbo.

[Tom F]

13 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Tom,

 

Having looked at the appropriate book I can tell you that D199 resembles a type of peak but does not have number carried by a class 46 and 7101 is not a number carried class 35 either.

 

Below are all the number series for the pre TOPS numbered Diesels:

• Class 15 D8200 - D8243
• Class 16 D8400 - D8409
• Class 17 D8500 - D8616
• Class 20 D8000 - D8327
• Class 21 D6100 - D6157
• Class 22 D6300 - D6357
• Class 23 D5900 - D5909
• Class 24 D5000 - D5150
• Class 25 D5151 - D5299 / D7500 - D7677
• Class 26 D5300 - D5346
• Class 27 D5347 - D5415
• Class 28 D5700 - D5719
• Class 31 D5500 - D5699 / D5800 - D5862
• Class 33 D6500 - D6597
• Class 35 7000 - 7100
• Class 37  D6600 - D6608 / D6700 - D6999
• Class 40 D200 - D399
• Class 41 D600 - D604
• Class 42/3 D800 - D870
• Class 44 D1- D10
• Class 45 D11 - D137
• Class 46 D138 - D193
• Class 47 D1100 - D1111 / D1500 - D1999
• Class 50 D400 -D449
• Class 52 1000 - 1073
• Class 53 D0280 / D1200
• Class 55 9000 -9021
• Deltic DP1
• DP2
• Kestrel HS4000
• Lion D0260

Gibbo.

 

Thanks for that Gibbo.

D199 and D7101 make sense, as they are just outside the numbering and in Sodor case (fictional). The Class 40 is an oddity where that number came from....even odder is the livery of two toned green which I don't believe the Class 40s ever received.

[Tortuga]

6 hours ago, 9793 said:

To here Gordon it’s because he is the most important engine. I do wonder if it was an early illustration to differentiate him from other engines.

Thanks! I wondered if there was a prototype example on the big railway - I know class 92 diesels have square buffers...

By the way Tom, is there any progress on baseboards or track? Or are you just gathering up stock at the moment?

[Tom F]

2 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

By the way Tom, is there any progress on baseboards or track? Or are you just gathering up stock at the moment?

 

As it happens, yes! I've just ordered them. Probably 2 - 3 weeks to delivery.

Essentially, it's 3 boards to make a 10ft scenic section, and two 4ft traverser/turntables.

[The Johnster]

IIRC none of the locos imported into Sodor secondhand from BR carried their mainland numbers on the island, and there seems little relation to their original numbers in the island's numbering system.  Presumably Awdry was concerned to avoid clashes with locos actually still operating on the mainland when he wrote the stories.

 

D7101, a Hymek, is interesting in that there very nearly was a real D7101.  The original order to B-P from WR was for the odd number of 101, D7000-D7100.  There were to be a further 98, D7101-99, lower geared locos with a maximum speed of 70mph intended for local South Wales coal work to replace the 56xx steam locos.  Cashflow problems at B- P after the income dried up after the materials for these had been paid for brought the company down, they were never built and the 56xx were replaced with EE type 3s, class 37s.  How an 8 wheeled loco would have coped in the Valleys is moot...

 

D471, as well as carrying an odd version of the 2-tone green livery as applied to Hymeks and Deltics, has a shape of yellow warning panel unlike any carried by the mainland class.  And D7101 has no route indicator panel, which all mainland Hymeks did; the loco must have been supplied direct to Sodor from B-P like this as there is no sign of it being plated in.  D199 could be a Class 44 Peak, but all the others had headcode panels.

Edited July 3, 2019 by The Johnster

[Alister_G]

14 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

And D7101 has no route indicator panel, which all mainland Hymeks did; the loco must have been supplied direct to Sodor from B-P like this as there is no sign of it being plated in.  D199 could be a Class 44 Peak, but all the others had headcode panels.

 

It would be difficult to incorporate a face with the headcode panels, so perhaps that's why they were left off?

 

Al.

[Tom F]

8 minutes ago, Alister_G said:

 

It would be difficult to incorporate a face with the headcode panels, so perhaps that's why they were left off?

 

Al.

 

That's always been the reasoning for me. I have a Heljan model to represent D7101, but after he has joined the NWR and reverted to his BR two toned green livery, and numbered D2 (nicknamed 'Bear').

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by 9793

[Gibbo675]

3 minutes ago, 9793 said:

 

That's always been the reasoning for me. I have a Heljan model to represent D7101, but after he has joined the NWR and reverted to his BR two toned green livery, and numbered D2 (nicknamed 'Bear').

Hi Tom,

 

But D2 is a class 44, now I am confused !

 

Gibbo.

[Titan]

The picture shows it as D3 too.

 

I was going to say that D199 was probably a class 44 on the grounds that headcode discs were shown when he was hauling the tank train, however since Bear also seems to have acquired discs in the above picture that may not be the case...

[Gibbo675]

9 minutes ago, Titan said:

The picture shows it as D3 too.

 

I was going to say that D199 was probably a class 44 on the grounds that headcode discs were shown when he was hauling the tank train, however since Bear also seems to have acquired discs in the above picture that may not be the case...

Hi Titan (1665 / 47 080)

 

I have referenced page 21 of Enterprising Engines and I think that the discs may well be Southern Railway style discs that are fitted to the lamp irons as the picture shews a class 3 goods, probably correct if all the tanks are fully fitted, for there is a spare lamp iron over D199's left buffer.

 

Perversely, I'm rather enjoying the pedantic tedium of discussing made up stories as though they are real !

 

Gibbo.

[russ p]

Did D199 stay there as I seem to remember he was obnoxious whereas the hymek was friendly,  I seem to remember my gran reading the story and the hymek suffered an exhauster failure and was rescued by Henry 

Fantastic level of realism in the original books and introduced me to assistance of failed trains before I could actually read, strange thing was I always remembered it and was actually useful to me in my career unlike 90% of things I later learnt at school!

[Tom F]

53 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Tom,

 

But D2 is a class 44, now I am confused !

 

Gibbo.

 

38 minutes ago, Titan said:

The picture shows it as D3 too.

 

I was going to say that D199 was probably a class 44 on the grounds that headcode discs were shown when he was hauling the tank train, however since Bear also seems to have acquired discs in the above picture that may not be the case...

 

My apologies, I have D2 on the mind as it is currently on the workbench (Class 28, BoCo). Bear is indeed D3

Gibbo, the NWR Diesel fleet has it's own numbering scheme. Daisy (One of Railcar design for the Ffarquhar branch was D1, BoCo D2 and Bear D3)

 

25 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Perversely, I'm rather enjoying the pedantic tedium of discussing made up stories as though they are real !

 

I think that is because Wilbert created a world that to all intents and purposes 'was real'. I'm thoroughly enjoying visiting that little known island off the coast of Barrow in Furness.

[Tom F]

11 minutes ago, russ p said:

Did D199 stay there as I seem to remember he was obnoxious whereas the hymek was friendly,  I seem to remember my gran reading the story and the hymek suffered an exhauster failure and was rescued by Henry 

Fantastic level of realism in the original books and introduced me to assistance of failed trains before I could actually read, strange thing was I always remembered it and was actually useful to me in my career unlike 90% of things I later learnt at school!

 

'Super Rescue' (the name of the story) is possibly one of my favourites.

 

Rather than me recite it for those interested, I suggest having a listen to the late Wille Rushton narrate the story from the early 80s.

 

[Nearholmer]

All this story-trivia has caused me to get out the entire set, which a friend gave as presents to my son over multiple Christmases and birthdays, and skim the post-1960s ones, which I've never actually read ........... a whole island of locos, and I think coaches, that I'd never heard of, although for others here they were clearly the stories.

 

A lot of them were, of course, written by Christopher, rather than Rev. Wilbert, Awdry.

[Legend]

I always thought the real Railway Series ended with the last book by Rev W Awdry. I haven’t seen any of the books by Christopher . The  last book was no 26 Tramway Engines published in 1972.  I didn’t have all the little books. I remember first seeing them at the local library . Then on a shopping trip to Glasgow with my Mum one Easter we spotted the first 4 books in paperback for 3/- or 15p.each   The Three Railway Engines was my first book, followed by James the Red Engine and then Thomas the Rank Engine Again and finally book No2 Thomas the Tank Engine . It seemed sometime before further paperbacks appeared and so my mother was badgered to fork out 6/- or 30p on Henry the Green Engine and Edward the Blue Engine in hardback . The colours in these books were so vivid  . I gradually built up the collection but finally bought the complete 26 stories in a compendium .  Happy days . A charming time when nothing really bad happened and the stories always had a moral and a happy ending. I can quite understand why someone would want to model it and I’m following this thread with interest . I always wanted to model the Big Station at then end of the line as seen in Thomas the Tank Engine book when he fetches the coaches and James the Red Engine, I always though the Hornby Dublo Station terminus would do the job as it was cream coloured like the Mainline station in the book.  Come to think of it all my early layouts owed a lot to Triang Hornby catalogues and Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

A good source of information is “The Thomas the Tank Engine Man” by Brian Sibley, effectively a biography of the Reverend . Recommended if you can get a copy. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Legend

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

Did D199 stay there as I seem to remember he was obnoxious whereas the hymek was friendly,  I seem to remember my gran reading the story and the hymek suffered an exhauster failure and was rescued by Henry 

Fantastic level of realism in the original books and introduced me to assistance of failed trains before I could actually read, strange thing was I always remembered it and was actually useful to me in my career unlike 90% of things I later learnt at school!

That's why I always carry a pair of leather bootlaces in my briefcase...

[Knuckles]

Change your user name to Jeremiah Jobling, then you'll really be dedicated.  :-D

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Knuckles said:

Change your user name to Jeremiah Jobling, then you'll really be dedicated.  :-D

My doctor has forbidden me to change my user name.

[Sharky]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's why I always carry a pair of leather bootlaces in my briefcase...

 

I think I'd be very worried if the Air Hostess came around the cabin, mid flight asking for some leather bootlaces. 

[Bucoops]

I have one of Christopher Awdry's books - with his signature.

 

Sadly one of my gerbils decided it looked tasty so now is missing a good chunk of it

[john new]

12 hours ago, Alister_G said:

 

It would be difficult to incorporate a face with the headcode panels, so perhaps that's why they were left off?

 

Al.

Why would it need a head code panel, just ask the loco where it is going to.  

 

Prototypical too. Years ago in the 1970s on a DMU foot-ex York to Bangor we were signal stopped (At Chester IIRC) the Bobby in the box had a shouted conversation with our driver about where we were going, then set the signals.

[Boco_D1]

6 minutes ago, john new said:

Why would it need a head code panel, just ask the loco where it is going to.  

 

Prototypical too. Years ago in the 1970s on a DMU foot-ex York to Bangor we were signal stopped (At Chester IIRC) the Bobby in the box had a shouted conversation with our driver about where we were going, then set the signals.

 

In fact it’s still in the rule book for the signalman to stop and ask the driver during times of failure, usually when you’ve lost your TD or TRUST (although these days it’s better to phone than try and shout the conversation signalling centres tend to be a bit further from location than the traditional box)

[The Johnster]

13 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I have one of Christopher Awdry's books - with his signature.

 

Sadly one of my gerbils decided it looked tasty so now is missing a good chunk of it

Guinea pigs eat books as well, borrowed paperbacks that had to be replaced in my case...

[31A]

On 03/07/2019 at 22:47, St Enodoc said:

That's why I always carry a pair of leather bootlaces in my briefcase...

 

I thought of that one a few years ago when myself (Guard) and the driver were trying to mend a leak in a Pacer's brake system with a big roll of sellotape from the local signal box and the cash bags from my ticket machine box.  Eventually a fitter came, and did the same as us but with duct tape ....