Ffarquhar - North Western Region of British Railways

[Tom F]

4 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

 I think 9793 Tom's idea of treating the NWR as a real railway to be modelled as such rather than basing a model on the book illustrations is an excellent one. 

 

Thanks David

 

I'm following the latter illustrations on the locos fairly closely, as they are quite accurate, but where in doubt I'm referring to Awdry's writing, and what was going on with BR (for example regarding wagons).

 

It's proving a fascinating research process.

[Gibbo675]

57 minutes ago, 9793 said:

 

Yes, most definitely! @Knuckles (Gavin) has made the correct 3D body shell and chassis. According to Awdry, James was experimental design based on the L&Y Class 28, with an extended running plate and pony wheels, plus 5ft 6inch drivers (as opposed 5ft 1inch).

Photo used courtesy of Gavin.

Hi There,

 

I was always under the impression that James the Red Engine was a derivative of McIntosh's 34 Class of the Caledonian Railway as that was an actual design.

It would seem though that the L&Y locomotive has the correct shape fie=re box and cab windows all the same.

 

 

I'm really enjoying the thread so far !

 

Gibbo.

[south_tyne]

Well seeing this has inspired me to dig out my collection of little books to read over the weekend. I am justifying it all on the grounds of research 

 

I too am really enjoying this! Nice to see so many fellow Sudrian fans coming out the woodwork. Let's face it, Awdry's books have inspired generations of railway enthusiasts and have probably set 99% of us in the road to bring modellers. Tales of Sodor certainly underpin my life-long interest. 

 

Keep on sharing! 

David

 

[Skinnylinny]

21 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

 

It's rather interesting to see an ex-Caledonian brake van there too - must have traveled down with the Twins!

 

Keyser did a kit for one of these in 4mm scale - given how accurate the beading is, one wonders if the illustrator was given one to copy!

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Skinnylinny said:

given how accurate the beading is, one wonders if the illustrator was given one to copy!

 

 

 

I strongly suspect so, given that the NW 20 ton brake van No. 13 in the picture of the Twins is evidently the prototype for the Triang R16 brake van! (Actually based on a late North Eastern / LNER design?)

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

 The texts of the Railway Series were based very firmly on correct prototypical operation, something I didn't appreciate as a child, so I did rather wonder whether youngsters seeing his layout at the show accepted it as the Ffarquahar branch from the books. 

They did if they talked to him  I was treated to a detailed explanation of why things were done like that at one of the Model Engineering Exhibitions by the Rev. himself, my Mum was rather surprised I liked them without faces as I was a huge fan. I knew from an early age they were based on real stories but no idea when it ‘sunk in’  

Cracking idea to take the Reverend’s modelling ethos further  

[Tom F]

8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I strongly suspect so, given that the NW 20 ton brake van No. 13 in the picture of the Twins is evidently the prototype for the Triang R16 brake van! (Actually based on a late North Eastern / LNER design?)

 

Yes, it’s the LNER Toad B recently produced by Hornby.

 

The Caledonian Brake Van is interesting. Sir Topham Hatt seemed to like to buy up other companies unwanted stock!

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, 9793 said:

 

Yes, it’s the LNER Toad B recently produced by Hornby.

 

 

... but it was the Triang one Awdry showed to the artist.

 

I've been trying to find the "prototype" for the open wagon in the foreground of the CR brake van picture - it's got no end pillars, which is rather distinctive. The Triang 7-plank open did have end pillars.

[Tom F]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

... but it was the Triang one Awdry showed to the artist.

 

I've been trying to find the "prototype" for the open wagon in the foreground of the CR brake van picture - it's got no end pillars, which is rather distinctive. The Triang 7-plank open did have end pillars.

 

Yes quite possibly, I was just meaning Hornby have brought out an all new version, which I’ll be using.

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

Yeah @Knuckles is a clever chappy! Here is the section from the IOS on James:
 

 

What isn't mentioned there is that when the engine was sold to the NWR, a standard LMS tender (or possibly an old Midland Deeley tender) was substituted for the L&Y tender.

[Fat Controller]

15 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

Thanks Phil

Why do you not think Dogfish? I'm not using the illustration as reference. I'm looking at the fact Ballast was being exported and then used throughout the NWR. Surely dog or catfish as this would be an 'engineering train'

The hoppers look like a cross between an early Iro-Ore hopper and one of the Dogfish modified to carry slag ballast. The fact that the side supports don't go to the top of the side is redolent of the latter

[Tom F]

17 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

The hoppers look like a cross between an early Iro-Ore hopper and one of the Dogfish modified to carry slag ballast. The fact that the side supports don't go to the top of the side is redolent of the latter

 

Cheers Brian (Shouldn't you be running the Railway!  )

I suspect there has been some artistic license regarding the depicted hoppers in Book 42.
I do like the idea of Dogfish!

[Knuckles]

As hinted upon at the start of this thread I'm friends with Tom (9793) and we discussed last night this post I'm making now.  I didn't want to chime in as it may seems like I'm trying to steal his lime light so to speak.  It's for that reason I talked it over first and he is happy me posting what I'm about to considering we are both in agreement on how we research and model, so with the bumf out of the way, here is some of my input ye may find interesting.

 

Railway Series (RWS/RS) research is something I and Tom and a small-medium group of others take very very seriously.  Sure we like the character faces and the stories etc but unlike 99.999r franchises out there the RWS is re-searchable to a depth nothing else is.  Even Lord of the Rings can't compete.  Personally, I've been researching and modelling for well over a decade now.  I'm surprised at a lot of the comments here that seem excited or perplexed people indeed do look at the RWS with a fine-tooth comb and seek to establish the most likely fictional truth on various matters.   Some of you know who I am, others don't but I'm known for a small selection of niche things mainly: 

 

I model the RWS in a way that is as uncompromising as realistically possible and I model pre-grouping stuff and do 3D design and printing (Sparkshot Custom Creations).  What I do is 95% RWS and only 5% 'Thomas the Tank' because let’s face it, the latter mongrel fell off the rails years ago; we're in the restoration game!

 

So, I model mostly as I believe Wilbert Awdry intended and described, not as he did.  His own models rarely if ever followed his own descriptions, mainly due to using what was available at the time and being hampered by the necessities of selective compression, ooooh how I hate this one.  I have the feels...

 

O, so firstly I model in N, 00 & P4.  00 has been what I started out with and have the biggest collection of, P4 was a trial I liked and managed and N is a side project.  I’m designing loft layouts that will be 00 and P4 but can’t currently decide which will be which, anyway.  I’ve rambled long enough now about ow seriously I take things, I’ll let you decide what you think with the following.

Here in RMweb I only have a small selection of gallery pictures, mainly because I just haven’t bothered to update them.

First up is NWR #3 Henry, my 1st ever RWS bash and possibly my first ever bash of anything other than a standard kit build.

 

It is a Hornby A1/3 cut n shut essentially.  Bit rough but looks like it does in the books.  First picture shows the original to rebuilt version.

 

The layout doesn’t exist anymore. 

Next is NWR #3 after his 1935 rebuild due to a disagreement with some ice, a compromised signal, a brake van, some tit who likes cocoa and a few tons of smoked herrings.

It’s just a repainted Black 5, nothing more, nothing less.  The forward top feed is incorrect for the chronology yet me and Tom both agree that it is easily explained by Ivatt giving it Hatt as an early experiment or similar.

Hornby Henry comparison.

The #3 has since be revisited.

https://twitter.com/KnucklesSCC/status/1138160188157046784

The original version of Henry I now believe can best be represented as a variant of the A0 pacific, see below.  Will be making a model of it but not yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is my model of NWR#4 Gordon as I and some others have concluded he likely looked in 1923 shortly after arriving on Sodor.  He is based largely on Gresley’s prototype Pacific drawings of 1915 and 1920 that I have copies of (I call them A0 plans, ‘A0’ seems to have gained traction in RWS ‘fannon’ strangely) seeing as Wilbert basically spelled this out in ‘code’ form.  Even his original sketches look like the 1915 plan.  But without going into loads of depth, this is the conclusion:

It is a Hornby Great Northern (1st pacific so closest to the concept of a prototype) with slightly modified valve gear at the top, and a scratch built running plate.  Notice the different curves at the front and back of it?   This matches the illustrations and also a particular drawing that was found at the NRM that I can’t currently show.  I opted not to ad a number 4 as these came later in the books although I might add one at some point.

 

Here is my model of NWR #4 Gordon in his post 1939 Crewe rebuild.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/1690-nwr-4-gordon-1939-crewe-rebuild/

 

Here is it compared to Wilbert’s Princess bash.

 

It is another Hornby Great Northern with scratch built running plate, drive converted to the other side, black 5 valve gear with modified Britannia cylinders, a right beast!  Tender is a comet models brass etched kit of a 3500 gallon flush riveted Fowler example with the horizontal strip removed to represent the Deeley rebuilds.  The #4 in these pictures is a paper print out glued on and has recently been removed and replaced with a home made decal.

https://twitter.com/KnucklesSCC/status/1138496820370464768

Shameless plug, I made some bodyshells, literally every possible combination of the real drawings and also the Awdry rebuilds of them according to my (and some others) researched options so you can make the real prototype pacifics, Henry’s and Gordon’s if you want. B There is another version of the 1920 drawing I need to do but other than that it’s all there.  If you want any in S, 0 or 1 gauge let me know and they can be re-scaled.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparkshotcustomcreationsscc?section=4mm+A0+Prototype+Pacific+%26+Freelance+Variants&s=0

 

 

 

 

Next up is NWR #5 James.  I made this from a Craftsman Kit of a L&YR Class 28 soldered and bashed up differently to match Wilbert’s writings.   As a result it is has 5’ 6” wheels instead of 5’ 1” wheels, a running plate extension, a pony wheels, different cab front window profile and another Deeley type Fowler tender bash.  It was my first ever working etched kit so I hope you’ll forgive the wobbilyness of it and the fact the running plate should be a bit longer.  It needs a new chassis now too. 

 

 

The Episode 8 promo is old now!

 

Another plug, I designed a bodyshell to make this in a quick n easy jiffy.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/SYPEFV95E/l-yr-class-28-29-mogul-experiment-body-wsf?optionId=72425155

&

https://www.shapeways.com/product/AJH3AUUSV/l-yr-class-28-29-mogul-experiment-body-fud?optionId=72416930

As you can see the prices for their FUD/SFDP resin are OVERLY prohibitive so if you are interested drop me an email at sparkshot082@gmail.com I can print you one in resin from my Anycubic Photon at considerably less than half price of Shapeways’ ~£96.  Same goes for 90% of the current SCC range, if you see anything you’d like drop me an email and pay a lot less!  The quality is very similar.

Next up is NWR #8, 5471 Montague, or Duck.  This again has been through a few changes as it has been repainted and has a P4 chassis.  The version without a face is one I did for a friend, I have a full blog about it in RMweb.

 

Here are some plans of Knapford Junction pre 1955 version and also Tidmouth that I will build once the loft has been sorted.  I can’t decide whether to do it in 00 or P4 but I’m thinking the latter as I take this seriously and P4 is not beyond me as I model it and 00.  However, I APPRECIATE those curves are horrible and I may be asking for trouble, but like my radius tests blog on RMweb shows I can fit most of what I want around the curves easily.  Henry and Gordon are the challenge so I plan to build them first to see what I can get them around and if too difficult will do it in 00.  However, I’m ok bodging things!  It’ll be a long project either way.

00

P4 (Will go through Templot firstly)

As Tom has already shown on his initial post I also created a RWS database so please do click the download and read.  

Ok, will leave it there!  Hope you enjoyed some of that.

 

There are other RWS models I have done, Diesel and BoCo for example.

 

Also wagons and stuff, and Percy progress...

 

The Percy progress is a RWS Green Goblin V2 with the cylinder shrouds for a Peckett W4.   It's my Shapeways shop as a body shell for a silly price, or you can order one directly from me at £34.89 plus postage.

 

 

EDIT:

Ok, i missed out my early version of NWR #1 'Thomas' in his 1915-1920s guise.  Since these 4 pictures were taken he has had balance weights, brake hangers/pads and rear window grills added so you'll have to imagine those in.  The #1 was hand painted.  The bodyshell was one of my own SCC 3D printed shells, FUD in this case.  Chassis is a compensation ready chassis printed on my Robox although still developing them.

 

There is also a YT video on it

 

Also I finished Percy!

 

I will be making my own chassis for it as I want slightly bigger 14mm/ 3' 6" wheels (rather than 12mm / 3') and slower running so the Peckett W4 chassis it is mainly designed for I have just borrowed from my own Peckett W4, that's why I have not painted the wheels greener.  The #6 is a home made decal, not perfect but good enough.  I'm VERY happy!  Will get some faces sorted later as I like to use faces as well as smokebox doors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Knuckles

[Gibbo675]

11 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, will leave it there!  Hope you enjoyed some of that.

Hi Knuckles,

 

Enjoyed all of that !

 

I have to say that the models I have edited into the above are the best representations of the various locomotives I have ever seen. I especially like your model of Gordon, it has a look of the RHDR locomotives about it from when they trailed their original short tenders.

 

My favourite engine was Percy, do you have a model of Percy ?

 

Your track plan looks effective although I would question how you will work express trains back into the big station without any form of balloon loop ?

 

The reason I ask is that a train on the Red line may terminate at the Big station, have a locomotive attached at the other end and worked back out onto the Blue line but once on the Blue line it cannot get back into the big station with out either reversing on a balloon loop or having a locomotive dispatched light engine. The only other option is that you could cheat and connect the Green through line in the big station to the Blue line in the back scene and sneak trains in that way.

 

Gibbo.

[Knuckles]

Hi Gibbo, thanks for your post.

 

Percy is in progress, bottom of my post!!

 

With Tidmouth the return is easy.  If not using the Ffarquhar branch track at Knapford as a reverse loop simply use Knapford or a scene in the middle as a run around opportunity.

 

Trains going into Tidmouth are not trapped, they just decouple right of the left crossovers inside the canopies and run outside.

 

This trackplannis compressed for the space though.  In reality it may of had several slips to allow trains to run in and out without conflict...like Tom's first post showing my bigger Tidmouth.

[Tom F]

Thanks for sharing your musings @Knuckles

 

I thought I would share this, It's my idea of a WTT for Tidmouth Yards, with help from Gav.

[St Enodoc]

This is all fascinating stuff, especially as the 60s were my own Thomas years (born 1956).

 

There used to be a website called "The Real Lives of Thomas the Tank Engine", which had on it a lot of the sort of stuff being discussed here but it seems to have disappeared. I don't know who ran it - if it was anyone already posting here perhaps it could be (or has been?) resurrected somewhere.

[Corbs]

It was Martin Clutterbuck’s site, I think it’s been moved onto the same site as Sodor Island Forums

[Tom F]

Little Western Bling!

Need to tone down the representation of burnished rods and general under frame weathering, but I'm rather pleased with these two!

 

The warehouse is one off my old Leaman Road layout (I've several) which will work well as part of the Tidmouth back drop.

 

[south_tyne]

What a great post by @Knuckles! It's great to see serious modelling of the Rev Awdry's railways. It seems to be becoming more popular to consider Sudrian projects and can is only a good thing in my opinion. My favourites were always Toby and Edward..... look forward to seeing those two modelled one day 

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Corbs said:

It was Martin Clutterbuck’s site, I think it’s been moved onto the same site as Sodor Island Forums

Thanks Corbs. I just had a quick look there, and read some of your content, but couldn't find anything that resembled remotely what I remember of the old site.

 

Anyone got more clues?

[Knuckles]

The Real Lives of Thomas site and content is being moved over to the new Sodor Island Fansite. Ryan is a busy man though!

 

Thanks for the appreciation on the models. I forgot to post pictures of Thomas though!   Will edit tomorrow most likely. Edward is in progress. Made 3D printed shells for him too.

[ian]

In the meantime you could look on the Wayback machine archive - this link takes you to an archive made in December 2017:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20171214212919/http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/

[Gibbo675]

9 hours ago, south_tyne said:

What a great post by @Knuckles! It's great to see serious modelling of the Rev Awdry's railways. It seems to be becoming more popular to consider Sudrian projects and can is only a good thing in my opinion. My favourites were always Toby and Edward..... look forward to seeing those two modelled one day 

Hi South Tyne,

 

Here are my versions of Toby and Edward, Toby was scratch built recently using a Dapol Pug chassis and Edward was a converted Triang L1 from about thirty years ago.

 

 

 

Gibbo.

[Pacific231G]

I'm probably overthinking this and of course Rule One applies but seeing both here can't help feeling that a serious model of the railways described in Rev. Awdry's books is better without the faces. For me the faces suggest a model of the book illustrations rather than of the "real" NWR. We do of course have the example of Awdry's own models of the railway's locos which were definitely without faces.  I think the first Ffarquhar layout came some time after the first books but I liked the interplay between them with Duck getting its name in the books from the waddling motion of Awdry's Gaiety pannier tank. 

 

Anyway, thanks to both Tom and Knuckles for all this. Now, has anyone built a serious model of the Merioneth and Llantisilly Rail Traction Company Limited?.Phss..ti..kuff but  I'm not sure about the antaomy of a small heraldic dragon!

Edited June 16, 2019 by Pacific231G