Ffarquhar - North Western Region of British Railways

[Aire Head]

4 minutes ago, Tom F said:

Essentially, this livery.

However there will be a BR black patch representing its nationalised stock. Some will be repainted into BR grey though (which would be inevitable by the late 50s/early 60s). Even this illustration shows one in BR livery.

 

Yeah I see it now. I misread black patch as black livery .

 

Are we to assume that the FQC bought a bunch of LMS 3 planks at some point in their history then?

[Tom F]

2 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Yeah I see it now. I misread black patch as black livery .

 

Are we to assume that the FQC bought a bunch of LMS 3 planks at some point in their history then?

Something along those lines. After discussions with others, large stone would have to be in wagons no bigger than 3 planks.

I've always looked at it that the NWR put orders in for wagons/coaches with other big four companies as they didn't have the manufacturing ability back in the 1920s-1940s, in particular with the LMS and LNER.

[Aire Head]

4 minutes ago, Tom F said:

Something along those lines. After discussions with others, large stone would have to be in wagons no bigger than 3 planks.

 

Yes I remember that, otherwise you end up with a lot of overloaded wagons!

 

I'm just being nosy to be honest and talking about wagons is far more interesting than the 4" hole I've got to drill through a double skinned wall today! 

[Tom F]

8 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

I'm just being nosy to be honest and talking about wagons is far more interesting than the 4" hole I've got to drill through a double skinned wall today! 

 

Haha, thats fine. It's good to discuss this stuff with people who 'get it'!

Enjoy drilling the wall! I'm just about to head on the work bench, I've two Duchesses to weather for a client. Then some respite tomorrow as I go fell walking!

[Aire Head]

6 minutes ago, Tom F said:

 

Haha, thats fine. It's good to discuss this stuff with people who 'get it'!

Enjoy drilling the wall! I'm just about to head on the work bench, I've two Duchesses to weather for a client. Then some respite tomorrow as I go fell walking!

 

I really need to get onto my workbench but since the baby is due in 5 weeks it's all having to wait at the moment!

 

Where abouts are you off fell walking?

 

I've walked about half of North Yorkshire and ventured into Cumbria over the last few weeks because it's was the only thing I could leave the house to do other than work!

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

I really need to get onto my workbench but since the baby is due in 5 weeks it's all having to wait at the moment!

 

Where abouts are you off fell walking?

 

I've walked about half of North Yorkshire and ventured into Cumbria over the last few weeks because it's was the only thing I could leave the house to do other than work!

 

Your are fortunate in your location! (As will be the child.)

[Aire Head]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Your are fortunate in your location! (As will be the child.)

 

Even more fortunate if everything goes to plan and in a few years time I get to live up that way aswell!

 

And of course having a child means Thomas and I know for a fact I won't be allowing Fiery Flynn or any other such nonesense!

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

I'm just being nosy to be honest and talking about wagons is far more interesting than the 4" hole I've got to drill through a double skinned wall today! 

 

Yes, drilling holes is boring.... ;-)

[Csalem]

I am glad to see you back at this and look forward to see how you develop the layout and the trains.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Yes, drilling holes is boring.... ;-)

Reminds me of the old joke about the Yellow Pages entry:

 

"Civil Engineers - see Boring".

[Jesse Sim]

On 19/12/2020 at 01:28, Tom F said:

 

Really appreciate your comments Tony, thank you.

Its been a tricky road, but I think my own mental health journey these past few months has helped me. My Awdry modelling had created two issues, one was certain areas of the hobby not taking my modelling seriously, and a bit of leg pulling. I know it was only meant in jest, but it didn't help me and my mental state at the time.

The other is the 'Thomas' fandom on twitter which only ever saw it as 'trains with faces' and had no interest in my 'real prototype' outlook.  Leaving twitter was the best thing I ever did.

 

Anyhow, that was then and this is now. I'm in the process of working on the first stone wagon today, which I should be able to show photos of in the coming days.

I’m glad you’re back and enjoying it Tom, a few things to say if I can?

 

1. Who gives a flying f**k what other people think of what you are doing, you’re doing it for yourself and if they don’t like tell them to pi** off! 
 

2. You don’t have to please everyone, there are always going to be people that don’t agree with you and the easiest thing to do is give them the finger and laugh as you keep doing what YOU want to do.

 

Apologies, but I’m Australian, we are a very colourful people with choice of words. 
 

I say this from my own personal challenges and triumphs growing up.....I was a dancer, who liked model railways and heavy metal music....I would have bullied myself if I had the chance. Did I stop doing the things I love? No, I told them to f**k off, got up and danced in front of my whole school. I got a tremendous amount of respect from everyone for having the balls to do what I did. Of course there was and there is always going to be some that kept mocking/bullying me but that’s life. Don’t stop doing what you love cause others put you down. Regarding mental health, you need to teach yourself to keep moving forward, but that’s no easy task and some days it defeats you, but if you get back up fighting, that’s what counts! 

When posting anything on social media, whether it be model railways, a new selfie, or something you’ve done, there are always going to be critics. 

 

[AJW98Productions]

Hi Tom, I'm looking forward to seeing how the wagons turn out! I really like your "real prototype" take on the North Western Region, and I'm looking forward to seeing how your version of it pans out. Enjoy the Fell Walking as a little break - I was lucky enough to visit England a couple of years back, and Yorkshire is a beautiful place.

 

Anyway, as someone without a huge understanding of the real operations of British Railways, but is trying and wants to learn, and someone who also wants to model the North Western Region one day (sometime in the future), I must say that your work is something truly inspiring to me. For example, I wouldn't have known that large stone (presumably before it is cut to shape in the Ffarquhar yards?), would only be carried in 3-plank wagons. But now I do know that, and I also know I have some old private owner ones lying around from Hornby that I could convert into proper FQC/BR ones, one day...

 

I agree with a decent amount of what Jesse has to say as well, though I know how tough such things can be while in a poor frame of mind, I'm glad you're feeling better now. I just want to say do what makes you happy mate. We all appreciate your work and efforts here, and can't wait to see what you've got for us down the road. But again, at your own pace, without overwhelming yourself with it, or making it too central to what yourself.

 

Enjoying the little back and forth about boredom from drilling holes, and the yellow pages too. And Aire Head, wonderful idea to keep your children away from such - errr - content, as Firey Flynn.

 

Take care out there everyone, and stay safe.

-Alex

Edited December 20, 2020 by AJW98Productions
Edited for additional clarity, and extra detail.

[Aire Head]

14 minutes ago, AJW98Productions said:

I wouldn't have known that large stone (presumably before it is cut to shape in the Ffarquhar yards?), would only be carried in 3-plank wagons.

 

Large stone blocks would be in 3 planks this can be both before and after shaping.

 

Hardcore/Ballast(not nessecarily railway it's a construction term aswell) would be taken in 5 plank or similar wagons.

[Ben B]

I really love this project- your eye for detail and attention to getting the information from the illustrations is superb.  Don't listen to the naysayers, the final project will more than prove your approach!  Are you planning on doing a model of Mavis?  The book with her in has always been my favourite of the series, and I love the illustrations.  Probably heresy to admit amongst the Thomas fandom that my childhood favourite locomotives were "Mavis" and (Devious) "Diesel"

[AJW98Productions]

50 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Large stone blocks would be in 3 planks this can be both before and after shaping.

 

Hardcore/Ballast(not nessecarily railway it's a construction term aswell) would be taken in 5 plank or similar wagons.

Thanks, Aire Head! I wouldn't have known this previously, so thank you for sharing. I think I vaguely remember reading that a few pages back, when I read through the whole topic, but thank you for reminding me. I love how through Tom's modelling of Ffarquhar, and the information that you and others have to share, there's so much for people to learn (particularly the uninformed like me). It's honestly really inspiring, everyone.

 

If I may ask, what it be safe to assume that Ffarquhar quarry would also supply Hardcore/Ballast for the railway? Thanks a bunch for the info, it's really appreciated!

 

24 minutes ago, Ben B said:

I really love this project- your eye for detail and attention to getting the information from the illustrations is superb.  Don't listen to the naysayers, the final project will more than prove your approach!  Are you planning on doing a model of Mavis?  The book with her in has always been my favourite of the series, and I love the illustrations.  Probably heresy to admit amongst the Thomas fandom that my childhood favourite locomotives were "Mavis" and (Devious) "Diesel"

I agree, the work and knowledge, plus eye for detail that is shown by Tom and others here is superb, it's really inspiring, and I likewise would encourage everyone to not listen to the naysayers. Because the whole project will turn out superb, and it's so inspiring to see!

 

Also, Ben, I wouldn't say that's heresy at all, despite my love of the "real prototype" approach (and preference for it, honestly), I do occasionally get some fun by diving more into the fandom side of things. And I wouldn't say that saying Mavis and (Devious) Diesel are favourites is heresy. Everyone's got their preference. It's certainly a unique combination that I haven't heard of before, but it's still fascinating to know. But I fear we're drifting too far off Tom's topic here.

 

A little unrelated, but Tom, I know you used to be working on the Skarloey Railway a little bit. If you don't mind my asking, how has this been going for you? I was unaware of where it was at when your hiatus began, and was just curious to see how it was/is going. Anyway, enough from me for now. I've gone on long enough. Sorry for the long message everyone. Stay safe out there,

-Alex

[Mark Saunders]

On 19/12/2020 at 09:30, Tom F said:

Essentially, this livery.

However there will be a BR black patch representing its nationalised stock. Some will be repainted into BR grey though (which would be inevitable by the late 50s/early 60s). Even this illustration shows one in BR livery.

There is no reason why there would not be non pool wagons on the island as a number of quarries retained their wagons in 1939 and subsequent nationalisation. BQC was one and the ones owned by Ffarquar could also have been non pool as restricted to a certain portion of line!

Edited December 20, 2020 by Mark Saunders
Make easier to understand!

[Aire Head]

7 hours ago, AJW98Productions said:

If I may ask, what it be safe to assume that Ffarquhar quarry would also supply Hardcore/Ballast for the railway? Thanks a bunch for the info, it's really appreciated!

 

Depends on what type of stone Ffarquahar stone is. I can't remember is the Reverend ever said.

 

If it was it Limestone could be used. sandstone or Gritstone however wouldn't be used.

 

@Corbs@Tom Fmight know if the Awdry ever stated what type of stone it was.

[Tom F]

5 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Depends on what type of stone Ffarquahar stone is. I can't remember is the Reverend ever said.

 

If it was it Limestone could be used. sandstone or Gritstone however wouldn't be used.

 

@Corbs@Tom Fmight know if the Awdry ever stated what type of stone it was.

 

As far as Awdry's own comments on it, the stone is used for building work (but never states the actual rock type), but I am presuming there would be a large proportion of hardcore left over, and I could imagine that prior to the Arlesdale/Mid Sodor Ballast production that started in 1967/68, then the FQC could have been supplying the NWR with ballast.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Tom F

[Tom F]

3 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

There is no reason why there would not be non pool wagons on the island as a number of quarries retained their wagons in 1939 and subsequent nationalisation. BQC was one and the ones owned by Ffarquar could also have been non pool as restricted to a certain portion of line!

 

Interesting thoughts. I'd presumed stone quarry traffic after nationalisation would have become standard pool wagons. In my case they are essentially standard 3 plank wagons. I liked the idea from a modelling perspective of depicting the wagons with the odd plank repainted, or in some cases full repaints into BR grey. I like visual differences in my wagon fleet, hence I was going down this route. Food for thought though.

Any thought? @jwealleans

[jwealleans]

As I understand it, wagons were not pooled if they were restricted in their use, so tipplers (couldn't be used for general mineral traffic), some tankers, the LMS powdered coal hoppers, that sort of thing.   If these are fairly run of the mill 3 plankers then exclusion from the pool would seem unlikely.

[Aire Head]

12 minutes ago, Tom F said:

 

As far as Awdry's own comments on it, the stone is used for building work (but never states the actual rock type), but I am presuming there would be a large proportion of hardcore left over, and I could imagine that prior to the Arlesdale/Mid Sodor Ballast production that started in 1967/68, then the FQC could have been supplying the NWR with ballast.

 

6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

As I understand it, wagons were not pooled if they were restricted in their use, so tipplers (couldn't be used for general mineral traffic), some tankers, the LMS powdered coal hoppers, that sort of thing.   If these are fairly run of the mill 3 plankers then exclusion from the pool would seem unlikely.

 

During the second world war private owner wagons for things like quarries weren't pooled.

 

As far as in aware these were 9ft WB 16'6" over headstocks 5 plank wagons in the most part.

 

After nationalisation they were pooled and given M360xxx prefixes.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Perhaps these maps may help in ascertaining the type of stone quarried on an imaginary island in the Irish Sea!!!:

 

http://earthwise.bgs.ac.uk/images/5/55/P916042.jpg

 

https://cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/538/755/1929/17716/17717/42117103947.PDF

 

It would seem having had a look the maps West Cumbria is either mudstone, millstone grit, sandstone with coal mixed in, and eastern Isle of Man is also mudstones and sandstones. 

 

I'm sure a geologist will turn up and put us all straight !

 

Gibbo.

[Tom F]

Popped into the shed earlier, first time I've been in there in ages.

Now I have decided to not depict the quarry, and instead use it as an off scene fiddle yard, I am able to extend the scenic section. This will hopefully allow me to represent the level crossing/road that runs in front of the station masters house.

My intention is to go beyond the station masters house, which will then represent the Alresburgh-Ulfstead Road level crossing. This was un-gated and allowed access to the lane, a short section of duel road and tramway. This will work as the layout scenic break.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tom F

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, Tom F said:

Popped into the shed earlier, first time I've been in there in ages.

Now I have decided to not depict the quarry, and instead use it as an off scene fiddle yard, I am able to extend the scenic section. This will hopefully allow me to represent the level crossing/road that runs in front of the station masters house.

My intention is to go beyond the station masters house, which will then represent the Alresburgh-Ulfstead Road level crossing. This was un-gated and allowed access to the lane, a short section of duel road and tramway. This will work as the layout scenic break.

 

 

 

Do you have a track plan for the model. I'd be interested to see your interpretation of the Station 

[jwealleans]

Very fetching shade of pink, that wagon behind Mavis.