Ffarquhar - North Western Region of British Railways

[Paul_sterling]

18 hours ago, Tom F said:

 

I'm looking to include it!

 

 

The tractors are something of a mash between a fordson/ford 4000/5000 (and their predecessor the super major) and a Massy Ferguson 500 series. 

 

Paul

[TrainMan2001]

Tom,

I've read the article you've provided and I have a couple of questions regarding Thomas' services in particular. I know on an average day, Thomas obviously does what was described, but it seems as though he also has extra jobs, because in Percy's Promise, he says he is busy and allows Percy to take them. Is there any indication on what his other jobs would be? Also, I know that there is the stone traffic on the line as well, but what other types of goods are there? Are there any details on what those operations would look like? Thanks for any information you can provide.

-TrainMan2001

[BritishGypsum4]

15 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Tom,

I've read the article you've provided and I have a couple of questions regarding Thomas' services in particular. I know on an average day, Thomas obviously does what was described, but it seems as though he also has extra jobs, because in Percy's Promise, he says he is busy and allows Percy to take them. Is there any indication on what his other jobs would be? Also, I know that there is the stone traffic on the line as well, but what other types of goods are there? Are there any details on what those operations would look like? Thanks for any information you can provide.

-TrainMan2001

Think that Percy's Promise is set on a Sunday as Thomas says it's the Vicar's Sunday school on a trip to the beach.

 

As for other duties it might be that he has an engineering train to work later on. There has been nothing definite written down anywhere that says as to what trains he would work. Wilbert did a timetable for his model layouts for the shows that he went to 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

Think that Percy's Promise is set on a Sunday as Thomas says it's the Vicar's Sunday school on a trip to the beach.

 

 

I very much doubt the Sunday School outing would be on a Sunday - in the 50s they'd certainly be expected to be in church on Sunday morning and quite possibly still evening as well. Saturday afternoon is more likely or maybe a weekday in the school holidays or a bank holiday.

[Aire Head]

18 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Tom,

I've read the article you've provided and I have a couple of questions regarding Thomas' services in particular. I know on an average day, Thomas obviously does what was described, but it seems as though he also has extra jobs, because in Percy's Promise, he says he is busy and allows Percy to take them. Is there any indication on what his other jobs would be? Also, I know that there is the stone traffic on the line as well, but what other types of goods are there? Are there any details on what those operations would look like? Thanks for any information you can provide.

-TrainMan2001

 

It's meant to represent a "typixal" (if ever such a thing existed) branch line.

 

Even into the 1950s in rural areas a significant amount of goods was transported by rail. 

 

For example given the amount of farming in the region you could have Cattle, Animal Feed, Fertilizer, Seeds and Farming machinery travelling in and have Cattle and Produce travelling out.

 

Factor in a few towns and villages which will require Coal, manufactured goods, food etc and you have a surprisingly large amount of freight.

[Kumata]

21 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Tom,

I've read the article you've provided and I have a couple of questions regarding Thomas' services in particular. I know on an average day, Thomas obviously does what was described, but it seems as though he also has extra jobs, because in Percy's Promise, he says he is busy and allows Percy to take them. Is there any indication on what his other jobs would be? Also, I know that there is the stone traffic on the line as well, but what other types of goods are there? Are there any details on what those operations would look like? Thanks for any information you can provide.

-TrainMan2001

"Wilbert the forest engine" details how it is Thomas' job to drop off milk tankers for filling at the dairy every afternoon and then Percy's to collect them next morning, obviously set quite a bit later in time than the 50s/60s but presumably the dairy run had existed in some form throughout the line's history. 

 

EDIT: just remembered that in "Branch Line Engines" a milk van is also stated to be coupled to Thomas' first train every day.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Kumata

[Corbs]

How's it going with the modelling, Tom? I found that Knuckles' photon printed E2 was of far superior quality to the shapeways-printed FUD version I'd previously made, a lot stronger/less brittle and required far less paint prep.

[Tom F]

More road vehicles finished this afternoon. A 'Moggy' Royal Mail van, and a Landy Mail van...perhaps for 'Mid Sodor' country where the many farmsteads cling to the fell side.

 

 

 

[LNWR18901910]

On 01/02/2020 at 12:59, Tom F said:

Thomas will be hopefully secured to his chassis later today.

 

What a fantastic model! It reminds me of the Kenney illustrations of how Thomas looked until the Post-Breakfast crash.

[BritishGypsum4]

22 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I very much doubt the Sunday School outing would be on a Sunday - in the 50s they'd certainly be expected to be in church on Sunday morning and quite possibly still evening as well. Saturday afternoon is more likely or maybe a weekday in the school holidays or a bank holiday.

Not being in anyway religious this is news to me so thank you for that.
I had presumed Sunday on the basis that they would meet at school and then head off on their day trip.

All it says in the book is; "A mob of excited children poured out of Annie and Clarabel one morning, and raced down to the beach. "They're the Vicar's Sunday School," explained Thomas. "I'm busy this evening, but the Stationmaster says I can ask you to take them home." "Of Course I will," promised Percy."
The it goes on to say by tea time dark clouds loomed and then the storm starts then Percy takes them back. 
The other reason I always presumed Sunday was the potential for cheaper tickets with regards organising a trip out and plenty of rolling stock availability for that day too. As I say, not religious nor have I ever researched into day trips with regards to Church trips. I knew about half day trips, works outings on a Saturday. For some reason thought differently about Church.

 

21 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

It's meant to represent a "typixal" (if ever such a thing existed) branch line.

 

Even into the 1950s in rural areas a significant amount of goods was transported by rail. 

 

For example given the amount of farming in the region you could have Cattle, Animal Feed, Fertilizer, Seeds and Farming machinery travelling in and have Cattle and Produce travelling out.

 

Factor in a few towns and villages which will require Coal, manufactured goods, food etc and you have a surprisingly large amount of freight.

And by the time it got to Ffarquhar the train could well have been a lot shorter in length due to dropping off of wagons enroute.
It is also mentioned about a brewery at Ffarquhar too so potential for barley, wheat and hops etc in and beer out!

[Aire Head]

7 hours ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

 

And by the time it got to Ffarquhar the train could well have been a lot shorter in length due to dropping off of wagons enroute.
It is also mentioned about a brewery at Ffarquhar too so potential for barley, wheat and hops etc in and beer out!

 

Any other industries mentioned as being present on the Branch?

[Corbs]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

Any other industries mentioned as being present on the Branch?

Everything not in italics* on the 'Companies and Businesses' tab in this spreadsheet...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_eaw1o4RKgCk6Pnrtrp_bhfHsTNMesgEhSJu-pDtbvc/edit#gid=339820363

 

My offer of sending TIOS still stands as it has the answers to most of what you seek in it  Drop me a PM with your email if you do.

 

*because everything in italics has been made up by me

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Corbs

[Aire Head]

37 minutes ago, Corbs said:

Everything not in italics on the 'Companies and Businesses' tab in this spreadsheet...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_eaw1o4RKgCk6Pnrtrp_bhfHsTNMesgEhSJu-pDtbvc/edit#gid=339820363

 

My offer of sending TIOS still stands as it has the answers to most of what you seek in it  Drop me a PM with your email if you do.

 

Sounds like an offer I can't refuse!

[PatB]

11 hours ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

 

It is also mentioned about a brewery at Ffarquhar too so potential for barley, wheat and hops etc in and beer out

Coal in too, which in PO wagon days could be from quite a distance away. Brewing required coal low in arsenic and other heavy metal toxins, which may not be available from more local pits. Potentially an excuse for running those wagon liveries you like but which are hard to justify geographically. 

[Compound2632]

31 minutes ago, PatB said:

Coal in too, which in PO wagon days could be from quite a distance away. Brewing required coal low in arsenic and other heavy metal toxins, which may not be available from more local pits. Potentially an excuse for running those wagon liveries you like but which are hard to justify geographically. 

 

Easy to justify geographically for exactly the reason you state. South Wales anthracite for the brewery, for instance; Notts/South Yorks coal for the gas works...

 

... but I've remembered that we're talking autumn 1959 here, so coal is arriving in indiscriminate ex-PO, ex-pool, P-branded wagons or maybe even the dreaded newfangled steel 16 tonners with absolutely nothing to give away the point of origin.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Compound2632

[Pacific231G]

On 02/02/2020 at 13:07, Compound2632 said:

 

I very much doubt the Sunday School outing would be on a Sunday - in the 50s they'd certainly be expected to be in church on Sunday morning and quite possibly still evening as well. Saturday afternoon is more likely or maybe a weekday in the school holidays or a bank holiday.

 

In the 1950s (or possibly ever) I don't think children would be expected to go to evensong and even very regular churchgoers (like my parents) only went to the morning service.

I found any number of references to Sunday School Outings but only one that mentioned the day.

"The Parish Magazine of August 1903 recorded the treat offered by Mr Morley, the owner of  Shockerwick House, from 1.45 until 7pm on the Sunday: In the absence of Mr and Mrs Morley, Mr Botcherby undertook all the arrangements, which were carried out in a most efficient manner. It was difficult to borrow sufficient wagons to carry the children to Shockerwick because hay-making was in full swing. And an unfortunate accident occurred, the Wadswick wagon being upset as the driver was attempting to turn by the schools, and all the occupants thrown out. Fortunately none were seriously hurt; though greatly frightened."

Other later memories refer to an annual all day outing, to the seaside by train (one starting at 07.00) with the train sometimes picking up children from a number of local stations in turn but later by coach. Saturday seems more likely for such outings. In Britain Saturday became the day for sporting activiities etc. and Sunday Schools were the roots of many football teams including several in the Premier League. Sundays, certainly in the 1950s, were a bit puritanical with nothing open.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

 

In the 1950s (or possibly ever) I don't think children would be expected to go to evensong and even very regular churchgoers (like my parents) only went to the morning service.

I found any number of references to Sunday School Outings but only one that mentioned the day.

"The Parish Magazine of August 1903 recorded the treat offered by Mr Morley, the owner of  Shockerwick House, from 1.45 until 7pm on the Sunday: In the absence of Mr and Mrs Morley, Mr Botcherby undertook all the arrangements, which were carried out in a most efficient manner. It was difficult to borrow sufficient wagons to carry the children to Shockerwick because hay-making was in full swing. And an unfortunate accident occurred, the Wadswick wagon being upset as the driver was attempting to turn by the schools, and all the occupants thrown out. Fortunately none were seriously hurt; though greatly frightened."

Other later memories refer to an annual all day outing, to the seaside by train (one starting at 07.00) with the train sometimes picking up children from a number of local stations in turn but later by coach. Saturday seems more likely for such outings. In Britain Saturday became the day for sporting activiities etc. and Sunday Schools were the roots of many football teams including several in the Premier League. Sundays, certainly in the 1950s, were a bit puritanical with nothing open.

In the early 90s at our parish church the vicar would invite the congregation for Evensong to join us in the choir stalls as a) there were more of us than there were of them and b) in winter it was warmer.

[Tom F]

7 hours ago, PatB said:

Coal in too, which in PO wagon days could be from quite a distance away. Brewing required coal low in arsenic and other heavy metal toxins, which may not be available from more local pits. Potentially an excuse for running those wagon liveries you like but which are hard to justify geographically. 

 

Coal is very much the predominant import to Sodor. I imagine there could easily be a few 'coal trains' crossing from Barrow, as well those attached to regular pick up goods. I suspect several wagons coming up the branch from Knapford on a pick up goods, and then being dropped off at the various stations on route to Ffarquhar.

 

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, Tom F said:

 

Coal is very much the predominant import to Sodor. I imagine there could easily be a few 'coal trains' crossing from Barrow, as well those attached to regular pick up goods. I suspect several wagons coming up the branch from Knapford on a pick up goods, and then being dropped off at the various stations on route to Ffarquhar.

 

 

Potentially enough to justify a ln entire dedicated train. Ffarquhar does also provide goods to travel to Ulfstead.

[BritishGypsum4]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

Potentially enough to justify a ln entire dedicated train. Ffarquhar does also provide goods to travel to Ulfstead.

Potentially although the coal for the loco shed at Ffarquhar may well come up with the pick up goods.
Different types of coal being needed for the variety of things from the brewery to the gas works means you would need some way of distinguishing the different wagons. I suppose that would be easy by sticking a van or two in between on the train up. Wouldn't matter for the empties.

 

And wool and whatever other goods from Ulfstead to Ffarquhar for the journey onwards

Edited February 4, 2020 by BritishGypsum4

[Tom F]

Working on another 'BRS - Sodor Roadways' wagon. In this case a  Scammell Scarab. This is even based on a Railway Series illustration to some extent.

Next stage, weathering and then varnishing! Really enjoying working on road vehicles.

[petethemole]

The wagons should have labels indicating the destination for each load. All wagons for one destination would be marshalled together. A coal merchant receiving different grades of coal would know which was which from their origin.

[Tom F]

6 hours ago, petethemole said:

The wagons should have labels indicating the destination for each load. All wagons for one destination would be marshalled together. A coal merchant receiving different grades of coal would know which was which from their origin.

 

I'm using the principles of the goods traffic, like I did on researching the Bala-Blaenau Branch. For example, the goods stock for Trawsfynydd was always marshalled at the back of the train for dropping of first, on route to Blaenau. I would suggest the same was done with wagons for Elsbridge being marshalled to the rear of the train.

[Corbs]

Does it depend upon the orientation of the sidings at the station? e.g. If they are facing, then having them at the back makes sense, but if the sidings were trailing, then the front could make it easier to split from the train and shunt back into the yard.

[Aire Head]

14 hours ago, Tom F said:

 

I'm using the principles of the goods traffic, like I did on researching the Bala-Blaenau Branch. For example, the goods stock for Trawsfynydd was always marshalled at the back of the train for dropping of first, on route to Blaenau. I would suggest the same was done with wagons for Elsbridge being marshalled to the rear of the train.

 

I'd assume your planning that outgoing wagons would be collected on the way back?