relaxinghobby Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Here is my set up, a £10 Lidl pillar drill stand and a small 12v drill. I've got these old style Romford wheels that need drilling to take crank pins. There are just shallow blind holes provided. On the piece of wood, I have two more of the wheels, the small one is held done with a tiny screw but can still rotate. So how do I hold it more firmly? Am I just too hopeful about the chances of such a set up drilling the crank pin holes accurately? What sort of crank pin set up is best for upgrading this old Trinagchassis, drill and tap to fit current Markits screw in pins or will bits of wire do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangoOscarMike Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I have no idea what the right answer is, but the "masking tape and super glue trick" has popped into my head. So here it is. Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Tom, in to your piece of wood drill a shallow how approx 6mm or 1/4ins dia, this clears the boss on the wheel back and allows it to lay flat. Hold the wheel with your lefthand and work your drill with righthand. Remove wheel, tap 10BA and fit crankpin, secure with loctite, Araldite or as a last resort "Super Glue". Yours, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) I use a pin chuck to hold the drill and just drill very carefully by hand. Likewise I hold the tap in the chuck. I use Triang con rod screws with the point on the end filed off, but I space the rods away from the wheel tyres with 10BA washers on the screws. I have just drilled the outer wheels and tapped the centre ones a la Triang in the past, but again the rods need spacing away from the tyres. Big plus with these older Romfords is you can file off the pips and drill the wheels for a bigger crank throw, maybe not the full GWR 30" but better than the standard 24" ish. Edited June 19, 2019 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted June 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2019 8 hours ago, micknich2003 said: Tom, in to your piece of wood drill a shallow how approx 6mm or 1/4ins dia, this clears the boss on the wheel back and allows it to lay flat. Hold the wheel with your lefthand and work your drill with righthand. Remove wheel, tap 10BA and fit crankpin, secure with loctite, Araldite or as a last resort "Super Glue". Yours, Mick. Me? I'm a firm believer that if something can snatch (or move) in a Pillar Drill then it probably will. I have the scars... I'd be temped to drill a deep 1/8" hole in a decent, square bit of wood (not rough sawn) and counterbore slightly as Mick has suggested above to clear the boss, then degrease, roughen up then epoxy a Romford axle into the hole using 24 hour Devcon (apparently stronger than Araldite?), leaving just enough protruding to secure the wheel to the square on the axle end using the axle securing nut. Should do the job. HTH Brian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 You can buy small machine vices from shows and off sites like eBay even Lidl or Aldi sell them now and again Very basic https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sprung-Loaded-Vice-for-circular-objects-such-as-locomotive-wheels-watch-cases/382396077962?hash=item590895178a:g:QU4AAOSw2gxY0SaG Better https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-Machine-Vice-to-Suit-Vertical-Top-Slide-and-more/283487857473?hash=item4201316b41:g:RJkAAOSwO7Nc3r4r Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 When I was a teenage modeller, taking my first step from "train set" to scale this was the type of Romford available. I "scale wheeled" several Triang chassis without any of the proper tools. Things were harder to find back then and some things would have required too much pocket money. I drilled the crank pin holes from the Romford cast centre marks using a small drill held in a pin vice and twirled between thumb and fingers. For a six coupled chassis I used the Triang fixed pins in plain holes on the outer wheels (as Triang did) and not having a 10BA tap until later force fitted a bit of brass rod (probably brazing rod) into the hole on the centre driver and using bits of paper to separate everything soldered a (home made) washer to the pin to keep the coupling rod on. With the soldered joint filed down it looked no worse than the Triang original. On a serious note I second what has been said about not trying to hold the wheels by hand while using a power drill. Far too likely to win free and damage fingers. A machine vice on it's own is not much help either as you really need something which grips a circular object. The home made jig using an axle is probably the best without too much investment. I have a small 3 jaw lathe chuck (Unimat) fixed to a steel plate, facing upwards, for these kind of jobs now but I have been slowly building up my tool collection for 60+ years. best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Holding Romford wheels while drilling is a good way to slice a couple of fingers open. Using the axle hole risks damaging the square. If I were to use a pillar drill I would drill a piece of wood as above to clear the wheel boss and then hold the wheel to the wood with those plastic top drawing pins through the spokes before drilling. 10 BA taps are available ridiculously cheaply from China these days. They are rubbish but cope with Mazak. The Triang screws are available on eBay I think they are S2010 but I might well be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted June 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2019 For drilling Mazak, lubricate with spit, take it slow and back off frequently - do the same with the tap otherwise it will seize and break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Interesting. I’ve been thinking about the possibility of a Bachmann style crankpin in Markits wheels so to convert Bachmann locos to EM without altering the rods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 These itema on eBay seem extremely cheap buy might be an answer https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multifunction-Worktable-Milling-Working-Table-Milling-Machine-Bench-Drill-Vise/292675374576?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted June 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, hayfield said: These itema on eBay seem extremely cheap buy might be an answer https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multifunction-Worktable-Milling-Working-Table-Milling-Machine-Bench-Drill-Vise/292675374576?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Thanks for the link John; I found the same item cheaper, with a UK supplier here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compound-Worktable-Cross-Slide-Bench-Drilling-Milling-Vise-Working-Table-310mm/282901340082?hash=item41de3bdfb2:g:HRgAAOSwvutaubPb HTH Brian Edited June 19, 2019 by polybear 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 19/06/2019 at 12:38, polybear said: Thanks for the link John; I found the same item cheaper, with a UK supplier here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compound-Worktable-Cross-Slide-Bench-Drilling-Milling-Vise-Working-Table-310mm/282901340082?hash=item41de3bdfb2:g:HRgAAOSwvutaubPb HTH Brian Interesting. Is there a drill/milling machine to match anywhere at a similar price level suitable for 4mm work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 This seems to be too cheap to be any good? but I may be wrong https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Precision-Multifunction-Milling-Machine-Bench-Drill-Vise-Fixture-Work-table/352427537629?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, 5050 said: Interesting. Is there a drill/milling machine to match anywhere at a similar price level suitable for 4mm work? On the back of all the vice listings I found this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Katsu-100080-Mini-Bench-Drill-Press-180w-220v-50hz-7000rpm-Fit-Max-6-5mm-Bits/1955852756?_trkparms=aid%3D666006%26algo%3DPRP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20161103085654%26meid%3D1037593fcb6c4836842a9d0e4ffff652%26pid%3D100697%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2349526.c100697.m4697 All the machine vices appear to be the same - but the price varies considerably! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 On 20/06/2019 at 07:42, hayfield said: This seems to be too cheap to be any good? but I may be wrong https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Precision-Multifunction-Milling-Machine-Bench-Drill-Vise-Fixture-Work-table/352427537629?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 That's just the X-Y table not including the drill press. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 15 hours ago, AndyID said: That's just the X-Y table not including the drill press. Must read things a bit closer Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 On 19/06/2019 at 02:00, Michael Edge said: For drilling Mazak, lubricate with spit, take it slow and back off frequently - do the same with the tap otherwise it will seize and break. Exactly what happened to me , first five wheels no problem and then the final wheel......................... Any one know of a five wheeled class of locomotives or better still a way of getting the broken tip out regards Bob A ps have still got all my fingers mostly thumbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted July 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2019 It's not easy, heating the wheel to any extent will result in the tyre falling off (assuming it's an insulated one). You could use a punch and hammer out the broken bit of tap, then see if you have anything left to tap... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Thanks for that , will try the punch and hammer approach ( no change there then ! ) ...........................slowly regards Bob A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Bob What size and type of wheel have you damaged ? Edited July 25, 2019 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 21/06/2019 at 18:26, AndyID said: That's just the X-Y table not including the drill press. I bought one - they're OK, but don't expect a precision instrument. For instance, the dial on the handle is a stick-on label. For the price, though, still worth having IMHO. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 25/07/2019 at 12:07, hayfield said: Bob What size and type of wheel have you damaged ? Apologies for delay , life gets in the way ........................ romford insulated driving wheel 21mm ? really old type in appearance with balance weight already 'cast' in situ regards Bob A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Bob I have a spare one you can have, far less trouble than trying to get the tap out of it. PM me your address John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Many thanks Done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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