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10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

but the most effective way of dealing with weeds (I.e. chemicaly destroying the seeds as they hit the ground) is banned. 

Exactly so.

 

And we will continue to reap the consequences of that.

 

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23 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

A mid-1890s down train headed I think by one of the troublesome 0-4-4Ts. I'm not sure whether the on signal is Saltash's advanced starter (no 18?) or RAB box's outer home. (The signalling varied over the years.)

 

saltash-bridge-small.jpg

Interesting picture and relatively easy to date within a few years.  the signal at danger is Saltash's Up Advanced starter and importantly it doesn't have a lower arm distant for Royal Albert Bridge Signal Box.  The latter signal box opened in February 1902 when the line was doubled to there from St Budeaux and at which date the Up Starter and Up Advanced Starter at Saltash acquired lower arm distants.  So there is a very definite 'no later than' date.  

 

According to Goodwin. ('The Cornwall Railway, first published 1960, reprinted 1972 by D&C)  semaphore signals in Cornwall started to undergo conversion to two coloured spectacle plates (thereby adding a green light for 'all right')  in 1895 and the work was completed in 1902.  Both of the signals in the picture clearly have the two colour spectacle plate so - if Goodwin was correct - the picture was taken no earlier than 1895.  So it would fit for a 3521 class engine running as a tank engine.

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On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 01:08, phil-b259 said:

 

Not so - while rebalsting may well remove the weeds, it won’t get rid of all the seeds nor prevent others from being blown in to restart the process afresh.

 

Railways across the UK (be they NR or Heritage ones) face the same dilemma - ‘contaminated’ ballast (yes weeds are no different from clay pumping up from below or mud from a land slip or oil build up from where trains stand for extensive periods) will always inhibit drainage  - but the most effective way of dealing with weeds (I.e. chemicaly destroying the seeds as they hit the ground) is banned. 

NO if the ballast was clean there would not be enough fines in the ballast to hold the water needed to support plant life. You might get the odd hardy plant but if you look along the track at rail level and the impression you get is a shimmer of green, it is a sure sign that the ballast is fouled with fines and needs reballasting. Strangely the passage of trains also seems to inhibit weed growth as if you have two identical tracks one in use and one disused, more will grow on the disused track. The rails etc also seem to rust faster when the track is not used.

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This period film is worth a watch...https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-beautiful-panorama-of-railway-ride-from-st-german-to-milray-1901-1901-online  The title should say “Royal Albert Bridge to Keyham”. And the horse tram is clearly electric!

I have told BFI about all the errors in their text, but they don’t appear to be interested in doing anything about it. Shame.

 

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11 hours ago, pb_devon said:

This period film is worth a watch...https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-beautiful-panorama-of-railway-ride-from-st-german-to-milray-1901-1901-online  The title should say “Royal Albert Bridge to Keyham”. And the horse tram is clearly electric!

I have told BFI about all the errors in their text, but they don’t appear to be interested in doing anything about it. Shame.

 

Thanks for posting the link; a very interesting clip.

It shows the original approach spans with rounded top flanges.

It also explains why the road bridge just off the approach spans

is so much wider than the bridge over the southern line;

it originally spanned two tracks.

 

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1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

How were weeds dealt with in the past?  I assume that the ballast was simply 'weeded' by hand

By an annual programme of weedkilling trains, which sprayed effective fluid that is no longer legal. 

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11 hours ago, rab said:

It also explains why the road bridge just off the approach spans

is so much wider than the bridge over the southern line;

it originally spanned two tracks.

 

 

It only shows 2 tracks in the film, but it was later on there were 3 tracks going under it. 

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4 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

How were weeds dealt with in the past?  I assume that the ballast was simply 'weeded' by hand

 

Originally by hand, then converted old tenders spraying simple chemicals like sodium chlorate, then more modern trains using chemical weed killers. Different chemicals were sprayed on different areas, a kill anything green chemical went on the track, a kill anything but grass chemical was sprayed on the lineside, and there was a chemical designed to take out scrub sprayed on areas where woody growth was becoming established.

 

Now as others have said the effective chemicals have all been banned, and there is not enough manpower to keep the track clear by hand. So the growth of plants like buddleia goes unchecked. To the extent that in places the interruption to sight lines is a hazard to those working on the track.  

Edited by Trog
Poor grammer and spelling.
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1 hour ago, Trog said:

 

Originally by hand, then converted old tenders spraying simple chemicals like sodium chlorate, then more modern trains using chemical weed killers. Different chemicals were sprayed on different areas, a kill anything green chemical went on the track, a kill anything but grass chemical was sprayed on the lineside, and there was a chemical designed to take out scrub sprayed on areas where woody growth was becoming established.

 

Now as others have said the effective chemicals have all been banned, and there is not enough manpower to keep the track clear by hand. So the growth of plants like buddleia goes unchecked. To the extent that in places the interruption to sight lines is a hazard to those working on the track.  

BR had the right idea in the sixties (?) - a flamethrower made of an old aircraft jet engine strapped to a wagon ................................................ oh no - that was for snow clearance !

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52 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

BR had the right idea in the sixties (?) - a flamethrower made of an old aircraft jet engine strapped to a wagon ................................................ oh no - that was for snow clearance !

 

Which by all accounts was absolutely useless at its intended task (melting snow)!

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On 20/06/2019 at 11:08, phil-b259 said:

 

Which by all accounts was absolutely useless at its intended task (melting snow)!

I heard that it disposed of the snow all right, but also disposed of the ballast as well!

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On 20/06/2019 at 10:16, Wickham Green said:

BR had the right idea in the sixties (?) - a flamethrower made of an old aircraft jet engine strapped to a wagon ................................................ oh no - that was for snow clearance !

Prototype for the gas turbine locos???

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On 20/06/2019 at 10:16, Wickham Green said:

BR had the right idea in the sixties (?) - a flamethrower made of an old aircraft jet engine strapped to a wagon ................................................ oh no - that was for snow clearance !

It was actually an engine of fairly recent design although the technology was advancing rapidly at that time.

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On 20/06/2019 at 07:23, Kris said:

 

It only shows 2 tracks in the film, but it was later on there were 3 tracks going under it. 

It shows the part completed works with the new Down Line in use as a single line while the original single line - some way above it - had been taken out of use and the formation was being lowered to the level of the new Down Line in order to improve the gradient profile.  That work was completed by February 1902 when the double line was commissioned between St Budeaux and Royal Albert Bridge.    The Down Avoiding Line (basically a passenger standard loop) between St Budeaux West and Royal Albert Bridge was added in 1908 at which time a new signal box at Royal Albert Bridge replaced the earlier 1902 'box which is seen in the film - albeit not yet in use.  

 

The 1902 St Budeaux signal box also seen in the film was closed in 1903 when Weston Mill Viaduct was opened and the double line was extended eastwards from St Budeaux to Keyham, this being the final stretch of double line to be commissioned between Plymouth and the Royal Albert Bridge Bridge.  A new signal box was opened at St Budeaux in 1908 to control the entrance to the Avoiding Line.

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On 20/06/2019 at 11:08, phil-b259 said:

 

Which by all accounts was absolutely useless at its intended task (melting snow)!

 

On 20/06/2019 at 10:16, Wickham Green said:

BR had the right idea in the sixties (?) - a flamethrower made of an old aircraft jet engine strapped to a wagon ................................................ oh no - that was for snow clearance !

This was actually in the very heavy winter of 1947, making the jet engine quite new (!).  It was an attempt to rescue a train stranded in drifts on the Abergavenny-Merthyr 'Heads of the Valleys' line, which can be bleak enough on a summer afternoon.  The wagon was chained to the track and the jet to the wagon, and given the beans, to little effect on the now solidly frozen packed snow in the drift.  

 

Things might have been quite spectacular had the wagon's restraining chains failed...

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