Procrastination and my first white metal kitbuild MTK Cl 59

[Luigi Taveri]

I picked up a Custom Finishing HO pewter kit of a US railroad tamper on eBay last year.  I’d always admired them but had never constructed a white metal kit before, and I've not built it yet.  However, I did quite bit of research including a very useful RMWeb posting ( www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39669-soldering-white-metal  ), purchasing and reading Iain Rice’s Whitemetal Locos (A Kitbuilder’s guide), and Nigel Burkin’s guide to Building Modern  4mm wagons. 

 

I wanted a practise build first and initially went looking for a 4mm wagon kit before coming across this MTK Class 59/1 unbuilt kit at a very good price.  My first impressions of the castings were quite favourable although I did spend a good deal of time filing pieces (and I didn’t resent spending that time filing either).

 

 

Now things have gone better than expected so I wanted to share my positive experiences after a long period of procrastination.  In fact I had to pause to take some photos of what was left remaining because it had gone that well, and I’d really enjoyed the experience.  Having said that, it isn’t perfect and I do have some questions about it.

 

 

On the basis of my research, I assembled a collection of suitable tools including

25W 230v Antex soldering iron

Ceramic tipped tweezers

(A very nice) 2” Engineer’s Square

Wire brush set

Glassfibre brush

White metal solder

 

I already had

Fry’s Powerflow flux

Various bulldog clips, blutack

A selection of files including a coarse b*stard file

 

I also made a work station from an offcut of worktop and topped with heat resistant traffolyte.

 

 

I also purchased a 230v dimming switch to use as a temperature control but in the end I never used it.

 

Foxy

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Luigi Taveri
Re-uploading photos

[Luigi Taveri]

Now, not knowing any better, I followed MTK’s instructions. They're basic......

 

 

This recommended assembling the 3 piece body side first.  As per the very good references, I cleaned the joints, spread flux across them before holding it together with blu-tack.  This wasn’t a success.  I wasn’t able to get the body straight.  However, I did learn that I was able to de-solder the pieces back to three sections without any mishap, although they needed cleaning up with the file.

 

So, I deviated from the instructions at that point, and soldered the body sides to the two piece solebars, and achieve a reasonable/acceptable body side profile.

 

 

 

I then put the instructions to one side altogether as they recommended that the two body sides to be joined by the bogie supports.  But as I had no dimensions I couldn’t work out whether these were the correct width and so I soldered the bodysides to the fuel tank (which is a fairly consistent shaped piece of metal!), and fixed the bogie support after that.

 

 

 

There’s some more to follow with roof assembly, some mishaps and general assembly technique but it won’t be for a week or so (although the finished kit is in another posting alongside a Q Kits 40 if you want to go hunting?).

 

Foxy

Edited October 9, 2022 by Luigi Taveri
Re-uploading photos

[stadman]

Have you built the tamper?

[Luigi Taveri]

No I've not built the tamper yet.   I've got some soldering technique questions to ask first before I commit to it.

[Luigi Taveri]

Having worked out a method of assembling the bodysides, I found the roof assembly and cab fronts a bit more straightforward (with further filing and test fitting).  I was also quite comfortable with soldering the buffers in place in the same manner as everything else, with plenty of flux, iron in, iron out.  So I now have an assembled kit (rather than a completed model) which, as others have pointed out, has given me a great deal of satisfaction to put together.

 

 

 

Now there are places on the model where fit isn’t perfect, and I have had some problems.

 

 

I've had a couple of slips with the iron, which can be rectified without too much difficulty.  They have both come about from concentrating on getting the iron into the joint between body and roof and not being fully aware of how the iron was positioned in relation to the rest of the kit.

 

 

 

One has cut through the bogie mount that is shown in one piece in an earlier photo above.

 

 

 

This one is through the solebar.To be fair I had fewer problems with heat than I anticipated.  I certainly didn’t expect to end up with something that actually looks like the photo on the box lid (although others may disagree!).

 

 

 

This was one of the first joints I completed.  You can obviously see the blob of solder on the joint to the two body pieces.  The body and solebar will have been face down and I don’t know whether this has occurred through excess flux running through the joint once heat was applied and this has dragged the solder through to the face?  I also wonder if I have used too much solder initially as well?  There is also a blob on the fue ltank which I think has come about for the same reason.

 

I’m not sure on whether this problem can be rectified?  I’m not keen on bringing the iron into contact with the body side, and I’d imagine that the solder will only spread further into the fluted bodyside?  And I can’t see any reasonable way of filing the problem away?  Therefore improved technique to avoid the problem in the first place?

 

I found controlling the solder quite difficult in comparison to normal soldering.  I used blocks of low melt rather than sticks and found that I had to melt and drip solder into the proposed joint position first.  I found this was tricky to do, particularly when dropping it in for joining the roof - this is probably the reason for the heat gouge in the solebar above.  I’ve then ‘dragged’ the blob once I put the iron to adjacent flux and then ‘flowed’ the solder as I ran the iron along the fluxed joint.

 

How do I get rid of the excess flux?  I’ve washed the model in soapy water using a toothbrush but this doesn’t seem to remove all of the flux? 

 

I’m not sure that I’ll take the kit any further (ie to make it more presentable through further filling (solder or body filler) and filing) as it was simply a test exercise, and it doesn’t fit with my HO models.  It will probably end up on eBay.  However, I have found the experience really satisfying.

 

Foxy

Edited October 9, 2022 by Luigi Taveri
Re-uploading photos

[sagaguy]

Think you need a temperature controlled soldering iron,200F (93c) is about the right temperature.No way would i use a normal soldering iron on w/m kits.

 

                         Ray.

[hayfield]

Ray

 

I have soldered quite a few whitemetal kits together using a standard Antex 25 watt Iron, yes you have to be careful where both the tip and the metal body of the iron touches, but soldering large masses of castings together a larger iron is in my opinion an advantage, I do have 3 or 4 tip sizes as this can act as a bit of a temperature control, but on the whole in and out with the iron as quickly as possible is the order of the day.

 

From this site I learnt to both flux the joint and put a piece of solder in the joint first, then bring the iron to the joint works best, rather than taking the solder to the joint on the tip of the iron, I have actually soldered quite small castings successfully using this method

 

I have been thinking about buying a temperature controlled iron for some time, but for the opposite reason, bigger wattage !!, but I can also see the benefits at lower temperature  

[stadman]

On 17/06/2019 at 05:18, Luigi Taveri said:

No I've not built the tamper yet.   I've got some soldering technique questions to ask first before I commit to it.

Thanks, just curious as I have a few models of OTP as an ex operator of such.

Kev

[Luigi Taveri]

On 29/06/2019 at 22:11, stadman said:

Thanks, just curious as I have a few models of OTP as an ex operator of such.

Kev

 

Kev, I've started it and posted some progress over on the US sub-forum. 

Foxy

[polybear]

On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 21:23, Luigi Taveri said:

I’m not sure on whether this problem can be rectified?  I’m not keen on bringing the iron into contact with the body side, and I’d imagine that the solder will only spread further into the fluted bodyside?  And I can’t see any reasonable way of filing the problem away?  Therefore improved technique to avoid the problem in the first place?

 

 

Whilst I don't think I've tried it for low melt solder, I recon that solder wick dipped in powerflow flux should soon suck the excess solder up and away quite nicely

[hayfield]

On 18/06/2019 at 21:23, Luigi Taveri said:

 

 

This was one of the first joints I completed.  You can obviously see the blob of solder on the joint to the two body pieces.  The body and solebar will have been face down and I don’t know whether this has occurred through excess flux running through the joint once heat was applied and this has dragged the solder through to the face?  I also wonder if I have used too much solder initially as well?  There is also a blob on the fue ltank which I think has come about for the same reason.

 

I’m not sure on whether this problem can be rectified?  I’m not keen on bringing the iron into contact with the body side, and I’d imagine that the solder will only spread further into the fluted bodyside?  And I can’t see any reasonable way of filing the problem away?  Therefore improved technique to avoid the problem in the first place?

 

I found controlling the solder quite difficult in comparison to normal soldering.  I used blocks of low melt rather than sticks and found that I had to melt and drip solder into the proposed joint position first.  I found this was tricky to do, particularly when dropping it in for joining the roof - this is probably the reason for the heat gouge in the solebar above.  I’ve then ‘dragged’ the blob once I put the iron to adjacent flux and then ‘flowed’ the solder as I ran the iron along the fluxed joint.

 

How do I get rid of the excess flux?  I’ve washed the model in soapy water using a toothbrush but this doesn’t seem to remove all of the flux? 

 

I’m not sure that I’ll take the kit any further (ie to make it more presentable through further filling (solder or body filler) and filing) as it was simply a test exercise, and it doesn’t fit with my HO models.  It will probably end up on eBay.  However, I have found the experience really satisfying.

 

Foxy

 

I have recently taken a loco apart which had suffered damage and had been soldered using 70 degree solder. Hold the casting over the steam coming from a kettle which is boiling. This will melt the solder not the castings. Reheat the item then quickly tap it on a hard surface and the solder will come off the casting and splatter the surface its been tapped on. Solder will come off the kitchen worktop, but use a piece of board. I guess you could try a piece of solder wick which has flux on it

As for the join on the body sides I would carefully cut and file the solder away from the sides, might take ages but far safer. As for the tank below might be safer to do the same.

 

I would carry on, it will throw up more issues and solving them will be a great chance to learn new skills and gain confidence for more important projects

Edited September 6, 2019 by hayfield

[Luigi Taveri]

Gents

 

Thanks for your comments on my excess solder problems.  I will look at giving them a go (and, Hayfield, thanks for the encouragement to continue!).

 

Foxy

[ianLMS]

Watching Tony Wrights video's on kit building loco's (Right Track series), the best way to remove the excess solder is from the back of the join. Flux on both sides, introduce the iron from behind and it should draw the excess solder back in (be very quick and dont linger though). I have tried this on my kits and it works well. 

 

I have a temp controlled workstation (iron and hot air gun) which both work well with WM parts.