Hornby MGR and LNER CCT

[Wilko1972]

G'day everyone,

 

I'm curious to know whether these Hornby offerings are accurate representations of the real thing.

 

Kind regards,

 

Andy Wilko.

[Hilux5972]

Why wouldn’t they be? The LNER CCT was only released a few years ago and the MGR was also updated to a super detailed replacement so yes they are. 

[Wickham Green]

Depends how accurate you need accurate to be .............. if you're happy to have the wheels too close together and those huge great hooky things sticking out of each end - then they're pretty accurate !

[Ravenser]

46 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

Depends how accurate you need accurate to be .............. if you're happy to have the wheels too close together and those huge great hooky things sticking out of each end - then they're pretty accurate !

 

So how does the Hornby LNER CCT compare with the Parkside kit?   Are you saying they've shortened the vehicle, Triang style? Or that the wheelbase has been reduced so that the axles aren't in the right place under the body?

[Guest]

I think he was having a pop at the Gauge...

[Steamport Southport]

30 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

So how does the Hornby LNER CCT compare with the Parkside kit?   Are you saying they've shortened the vehicle, Triang style? Or that the wheelbase has been reduced so that the axles aren't in the right place under the body?

 

I think that's a tongue in cheek jibe at 00 gauge being too narrow.

 

They did get something slightly wrong. The two centre windows should be glazed with a mesh behind them. They are boarded up on the Hornby model. I believe that was a later alteration on some of them due to the doors breaking them when being closed.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164275/Hornby_R6682D_Extra_Long_CCT_wagon_1274_in_LNER_teak/StockDetail.aspx

 

Some real ones here.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc

 

 

Jason

Edited June 19, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Wilko1972]

Thanks for all your replies. Have Hornby produced a HAA in 'as built condition"? I can't see any on Ebay.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

if you're happy to have the wheels too close together and those huge great hooky things sticking out of each end

 

Well, you could always replace the wheels with something a bit wider if thats your cup of tea, and the couplings come off quite easily, so you could put something more to your taste on the ends.  As for the folk who use ordinary track and want to get around a curve without buffer lock, then they're fine as they are!

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

They did get something slightly wrong. The two centre windows should be glazed with a mesh behind them.

 

Small drill in a pinvice, then careful use of a piercing saw, followed up by a small emery board. Or just float some thin gloss black into the apertures. Nae Problemo! 

[Steamport Southport]

Or buy the Parkside ones like I did.  

 

That was before the Hornby ones came out mind you. Mine haven't got all the intricate lettering like the Hornby ones have. At some point I'll redo them seeing as they are now available from Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

Well, you could always replace the wheels with something a bit wider if thats your cup of tea, and the couplings come off quite easily, so you could put something more to your taste on the ends.  As for the folk who use ordinary track and want to get around a curve without buffer lock, then they're fine as they are!

 

As Steamport pointed out, my comment was with tongue firmly in cheek ..................... but while we're about it, I'll add that I'll be fitting spring buffers to my CCT too - and I'm confident it'll happily traverse my minimum 3' curves without locking buffers with anything ...... but then nobody asked about accurate representations of First Radius curves so that's totally irrelevant. ( the MGR hopper is way out of my time-frame, I'm afraid )

[Ravenser]

23 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

As Steamport pointed out, my comment was with tongue firmly in cheek ..................... but while we're about it, I'll add that I'll be fitting spring buffers to my CCT too - and I'm confident it'll happily traverse my minimum 3' curves without locking buffers with anything ...... but then nobody asked about accurate representations of First Radius curves so that's totally irrelevant. ( the MGR hopper is way out of my time-frame, I'm afraid )

 

It's one of those "interesting but not quite on target" vehicles for me... Seems to have gone about 6-7 years too early for my "proper" BR Blue period and arguably I don't really need another parcels vehicle for the "funny trains" kettle period 

 

If the Hornby model was a dud I'd certainly have gone the Parkside route and saved some money (if I actually got one), though a vehicle with that long a wheelbase is going to need a compensation unit. I use Kadees and the min radius is a (mitigated 2'6 on a crossover that parcels vehicles do use.... 

[Steamport Southport]

How late are you talking?

 

As they were still plentiful in 1978 with 41 still in use according to the RCTS Coaching Stock book for that year. 

 

 

 

Jason

[Flood]

6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

How late are you talking?

 

As they were still plentiful in 1978 with 41 still in use according to the RCTS Coaching Stock book for that year. 

 

 

 

Jason

That book is from the January of 1978, they had all gone by the September with most of them being withdrawn July to August 1978. I suspect that Ravenser is modelling early to mid 1980s.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Flood

[Ravenser]

6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

How late are you talking?

 

As they were still plentiful in 1978 with 41 still in use according to the RCTS Coaching Stock book for that year. 

 

 

 

Jason

 

1985-90

 

As Paul Barlett's site has latest shots dated 1978 showing vehicles dumped condemned at Whittlesea /Ely - I took it they all went that year. 

 

It's stretching it a bit ... I've already "repurposed" a Blue Spot fish off the Boxfile to a Parcels example , for use as a DMU "swinger", and I don't really think those lasted past 1982

 

And I have a Lima 42'  LMS CCT to rework anyway- I don't think those made it to 1985 , so that will end up with the "not terribly serious kettle" fleet...

 

Behind all this is the fact that Blacklade is actually an ultra-minimum space layout though it doesn't look it, and the only platform with access to the only loop will   just take 31 + 2 x 50' vans (or a 2 car 23m Sprinter) without fouling the crossover. Hence my interest in short parcels vehicles  (I need to finish the 128 , so I can run 57' BG/GUV  vehicles occasionally - potentially with a BR CCT as well)

[County of Yorkshire]

The LNER CCT is a superb bit of kit; just wish something comparable was produced for the GWR (cough....Siphon G....cough).

 

 

[Matt]

Hornby HAAs - there are two types so watch out - the earlier model and the later "superdetail" model.  Both have been in fairly recent production with the simpler model being priced understandably lower (not totally clear if marketed as RailRoad).  Both have their pros and cons from what I understand.  Whilst the earlier model lacks some of the more modern features (sprung buffers, NEM pockets etc.), there are those that say the "superdetail" model has many inaccuracies and that the more basic model is a better starting point for an upgrade.  I'm no expert so cannot comment suffice to say that I have a sizeable fleet of the "superdetail" variety that I think look nice and run well (especially using Hornby's Roco style bar coupling).  

 

From what I can tell most of H's superdetail HAAs seem to have been released in EWS era liveries - several varieties with/without hoods, with/without Barry emblems on the sides.  There were Ltd Ed. blue framed versions with saltire symbols which date to same period (I think for Harburn's but could be wrong).  Later H did a release of the model in the earlier red framed variety but the price tag had shot up by this stage so I never invested in any - I also read reviews suggesting the red was too dark.  I don't think they have done any other liveries on the superdetail variant.  The lesser detailed model has been made available with yellow frames, red frames and probably other liveries too.

 

Hope this helps,

M

[Porcy Mane]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

They did get something slightly wrong. The two centre windows should be glazed with a mesh behind them. They are boarded up on the Hornby model. I believe that was a later alteration on some of them due to the doors breaking them when being closed.

 

Erm No. Hornby got it right. Zink mesh only.

Read on from here:

 

I'll post this again here for convenience.

 

 

The Hornby re-tooled HAA on the other hand came in for some criticism on its introduction. I can't remember what it was as it's not my era.

 

P

[66738]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Hornby HAAs - there are two types so watch out - the earlier model and the later "superdetail" model.  Both have been in fairly recent production with the simpler model being priced understandably lower (not totally clear if marketed as RailRoad).  Both have their pros and cons from what I understand.  Whilst the earlier model lacks some of the more modern features (sprung buffers, NEM pockets etc.), there are those that say the "superdetail" model has many inaccuracies and that the more basic model is a better starting point for an upgrade.  I'm no expert so cannot comment suffice to say that I have a sizeable fleet of the "superdetail" variety that I think look nice and run well (especially using Hornby's Roco style bar coupling).  

 

From what I can tell most of H's superdetail HAAs seem to have been released in EWS era liveries - several varieties with/without hoods, with/without Barry emblems on the sides.  There were Ltd Ed. blue framed versions with saltire symbols which date to same period (I think for Harburn's but could be wrong).  Later H did a release of the model in the earlier red framed variety but the price tag had shot up by this stage so I never invested in any - I also read reviews suggesting the red was too dark.  I don't think they have done any other liveries on the superdetail variant.  The lesser detailed model has been made available with yellow frames, red frames and probably other liveries too.

 

Hope this helps,

M

They also did yellow frame R6761, but these are hard to find. R6705 single red frame HAA.(Rare) 

R6706 single red frame wagon factory weathered and graffiti. Fairly easy to find. 

R6707, 3 pack red frame. (Rare).

66738

[hmrspaul]

4 hours ago, Flood said:

That book is from the January of 1978, they had all gone by the September with most of them being withdrawn July to August 1978. I suspect that Ravenser is modelling early to mid 1980s.

You can't get much deeper into the Blue period than 1978, 15 years after introduction and the gut wrenchingly awful single colour era was soon to break up, thank goodness.

Paul

[The Johnster]

Come on, Paul, by 1978 you couldn't see what colour any wooden bodied NPCCS vehicle was under the muck!

 

I actually rather liked the plain blue, but not the full yellow ends that disfigured so many locos.  Couldn't argue with the fact that they undoubtedly saved lives, especially before the early 70s when hi-viz became compulsory, though.

 

My least favourite livery of all time was NSE, let's make a perfectly respectable railway vehicle that used to have a degree of dignity and style to it look like a pair of poundshop trainers.

[Wickham Green]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

My least favourite livery of all time was NSE, let's make a perfectly respectable railway vehicle that used to have a degree of dignity and style to it look like a pair of poundshop trainers.

.............. but then what other livery have the Thameslnk 319's ever carried that wasn't drab relieved with a little drab !!?! ...................... I'd certainly agree that the NSE livery took a lot of getting used to on existing stock - but the later version with the darker blue and curved up-swipe was far better than the original style.

[blueeighties]

On 19/06/2019 at 22:27, hmrspaul said:

 and the gut wrenchingly awful single colour era was soon to break up, thank goodness.

Paul

Oh dear......

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The original MGR needs the angles filing on the ends of the rim of the tub, the newer version has these, and, in the perfect world we don't live in, both could do with an etched brass rim to do away with the overly thick plastic moulding.

 

Mike.

[SweenyTod1]

I have three LNER CCTs Two are Hornby, the other Parkside. When I built the latter I compensated one axle, as I thought it would be required on code 100 track, but it didn't like the long insulfrog diamond crossing, derailing most of the time. No problem through any of the pointwork though, so eventually the axle was de-compensated. It still wobbles, but stays on the track. When the Hornby ones came out, I bought one (eventually another) and they also wobble over the crossings. I know code 100 track is not ideal for finer scale wheels, but the layout is old and not worth ripping up to start again. I have the opportunity to operate a code 75 layout and a Parkside version runs happily on that. Perhaps some kind of infill of the frogs to stop the wheels dropping into the "chasm" might be the way to improve things? More ballast weight too? Your thoughts for a happy compromise please.

 

Tod

[The Johnster]

I have one LNER CCT, in late pre-nationalisation livery heavily weathered, on a BLT layout of Code 100 Streamline and one setrack curved point in the fiddle yard.  It runs ok, but I have no diamond crossings!  

 

Check the back to backs and sit the vans on a mirror to check that the chassis of all 3 are square and all wheels are level with each other; you've probably already done this.