Midland in Tewkesbury

[Regularity]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Nobody really knows for sure which version is correct. All you can do is look at the photos, read the comments and make a best guess based on the information you have to guide you.

That is the most sensible interpretation of this matter. In the end, it boils down to personal judgement.

And perhaps a desire to have PO wagons with a different colour!

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Well, it would please everybody ⅓ of the time, and nobody for all of it!

 

Actually, having suggested the idea, I think it would leave me totally dissatisfied. I need some materials and paint samples corresponding to those in use at the Gloucester Co. in 1900, some orthochromatic film, a variety of lighting conditions, and a good dark-room...

[Dave Hunt]

.......... or a time machine and a colour camera.

 

Dave

 

(but then someone would probably argue about proper colour rendition)

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

.......... or a time machine and a colour camera.

 

Dave

 

(but then someone would probably argue about proper colour rendition)

 

... or an analysis of what the man in charge of the photo boards had had to drink the previous evening and a recording of the foreman's conversation with him after the plates had been developed.

[Ian Smith]

I have just caught up with this thread and the fascinating discussion on the colouring of the Healing wagon. I have absolutely nothing of value to add to the discussion, however someone (several people) mentioned the difference of livery between the wagon and board description - my only comment would be that perhaps the person placing the board was illiterate anyway, and also that the photographer would be there just to take the photo (probably one of several that day) and would be looking at framing the photo rather than interested in what was written on the boards or that they related in any way to the main subject of his focus.

Ian

[Stephenwolsten]

Does this picture help or hinder please?! 

https://www.facebook.com/chocolatecoveredwagon/photos/a.455802203513/10152265508113514/

[Compound2632]

I hope @Tricky will forgive a little digression but that Empty to Netherseal Colliery, near Burton on Trent inscription has been ticking away in the back of my mind. I knew I'd seen one of the colliery's own wagons recently, in Meakins Sidings, Burton on Trent, c. 1908-1910:

 

 

[Crop from MRSC 60286.] So if an extra coal wagon is wanted for Tewkesbury, here's a candidate for scratchbuilding!

 

I wonder what the livery might be? It's obviously been in service for a while. The body could be lead grey that has gone black in reaction with the sulphurous atmosphere - compare the Midland wagon behind - but it is perhaps more likely to be black, red, or even chocolate! The lettering is shaded in what appears a lighter colour, so, most probably, red; but it could be black, with a different surface finish...

 

Netherseal Colliery was served by a Midland Railway branch (rather than a colliery mineral line) winding across the fields from Gresley on the Leicester & Burton line.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Compound2632
Inserted missing square bracket.

[Compound2632]

Oh dear. Sorry to drag this out...

 

Gloucester photo 3346, March 1907 (OK, seven years' difference), p. 115 in Ian Pope's Gloucestershire book, a second-hand wagon for James Taylor & Co., Beckford, painted chocolate, letters white, shaded black - according to the photo board. To my eyes the effect is very much the same as the Healing wagon photo: the shading (and ironwork) appear lighter than the woodwork. Then compare Photo 3352 (p. 114 in Pope), same month, another second-hand wagon for the same customer, same livery. The top of the wagon side appears to be more brightly lit, particularly near the centre. Here the shading definitely looks darker than the body colour. But lower down, most clearly at the right hand end, the shading looks lighter than the body colour (on the words BECKFORD and FOR PRICES. and the number 14). So lighting conditions clearly have an effect (as @Dave Hunt said) along with the texture of the surface and the response of the photographic emulsion.

[Tricky]

On 25/07/2021 at 16:17, Stephenwolsten said:

Does this picture help or hinder please?! 

https://www.facebook.com/chocolatecoveredwagon/photos/a.455802203513/10152265508113514/

Definitely hinder!!!

[Tricky]

On 25/07/2021 at 16:50, Compound2632 said:

I hope @Tricky will forgive a little digression but that Empty to Netherseal Colliery, near Burton on Trent inscription has been ticking away in the back of my mind. I knew I'd seen one of the colliery's own wagons recently, in Meakins Sidings, Burton on Trent, c. 1908-1910:

 

 

[Crop from MRSC 60286.] So if an extra coal wagon is wanted for Tewkesbury, here's a candidate for scratchbuilding!

 

I wonder what the livery might be? It's obviously been in service for a while. The body could be lead grey that has gone black in reaction with the sulphurous atmosphere - compare the Midland wagon behind - but it is perhaps more likely to be black, red, or even chocolate! The lettering is shaded in what appears a lighter colour, so, most probably, red; but it could be black, with a different surface finish...

 

Netherseal Colliery was served by a Midland Railway branch (rather than a colliery mineral line) winding across the fields from Gresley on the Leicester & Burton line.

An interesting digression - where might I find a drawing to use for scratch building?

Edited July 27, 2021 by Tricky
Weird grammar…

[Tricky]

Back ‘on topic’, not that any of the foregoing is ‘off’…!

I did a bit of work on the shed, namely adding the coping stones to the end wall because I made an error in drawing the wall brickwork. These are maple strips and will be painted grubby stone colours. I think it looks quite ‘Midland-esque’ though…! I’ve also mortared the brickwork ready for further weathering and picking out brick variations. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Tricky

[Tricky]

Speaking of mortaring, I’ve also had a play with the long rear wall. I splodged some mortar over small areas and then when dry rubbed it all over with wire wool. The effect I think is quite pleasing. Next will be to blend it all in and further weathering. Two more photos in the next post. 

[Tricky]

The effect after hoovering off. 

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, Tricky said:

An interesting digression - where might know find a drawing to use for scratch building?

 

I don't think a drawing is necessary. I think it's reasonable to assume that the wagon is 15 ft long over headstocks, 9 ft wheelbase, 7'6" wide, and by comparison with the adjacent D305 dropside wagon (1'9" sides) about 3 ft deep - planks 9" + 6" + 6" + 6" + 9". The top plank is through, the door 4'6" wide. Then everything else falls into place.

[lezz01]

I particularly like the lead flashing on the roof Tricky. Very nicely done mate.

Regards Lez.  

[Tricky]

On 25/07/2021 at 16:50, Compound2632 said:

I hope @Tricky will forgive a little digression but that Empty to Netherseal Colliery, near Burton on Trent inscription has been ticking away in the back of my mind. I knew I'd seen one of the colliery's own wagons recently, in Meakins Sidings, Burton on Trent, c. 1908-1910:

 

 

[Crop from MRSC 60286.] So if an extra coal wagon is wanted for Tewkesbury, here's a candidate for scratchbuilding!

 

I wonder what the livery might be? It's obviously been in service for a while. The body could be lead grey that has gone black in reaction with the sulphurous atmosphere - compare the Midland wagon behind - but it is perhaps more likely to be black, red, or even chocolate! The lettering is shaded in what appears a lighter colour, so, most probably, red; but it could be black, with a different surface finish...

 

Netherseal Colliery was served by a Midland Railway branch (rather than a colliery mineral line) winding across the fields from Gresley on the Leicester & Burton line.

Also on page 9 of the latest Midland Railway Society Journal I see…

[34006]

As a very tenuous connection with this, Netherseal Colliery was our "local" pit, up Pit Lane,not 10 mins walk from where I'm sitting now. Closed in 1947,my great grand father delivered coal from there round the village , with a pony and cart .Trojan ,now at Didcot was the shunting engine there ,later it moved to the paper mill at Tamworth .All that remains now is the old trackbed from it's junction at Castle Gresley ,and the brick built reservoir by the farm.

 

Phil

[Tricky]

A quick question if I may: what colour would the gutters and downpipe have been on the engine shed c1907? Crimson Lake? 

[Compound2632]

28 minutes ago, Tricky said:

A quick question if I may: what colour would the gutters and downpipe have been on the engine shed c1907? Crimson Lake? 

 

Venetian red?

[Dave Hunt]

Denbigh pottery cream.

 

Dave

[MarstonVale]

Just don't say they are chocolate coloured....we know how that went with the wagon

[Dave Hunt]

No, they're cream coloured. Now, is that single cream, clotted cream, whipped cream, vanilla ice cream...............

 

Dave

[Tricky]

9 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

No, they're cream coloured. Now, is that single cream, clotted cream, whipped cream, vanilla ice cream...............

 

Dave

Or maybe a fancy Farrow & Ball shade like ‘Clunch’ or ‘Dropcloth’….? 

[Tricky]

My ideal of doing a bit on Tewks most days has long since evaporated, however, I have been dabbling on and off with the rear wall and engine shed. I’ve added a bit of grubby colour around the brickwork generally and gone over again with the off-white mortar mix to bring some hi-lights. The rear wall gives a reasonable representation of an older wall showing signs of spalling and in need of repointing. The shed looks ok in natural light but under artificial looks flat. I shall experiment further…

[Tricky]

More or less finished the engine shed at last!