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Midland in Tewkesbury


Tricky
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have another idea brewing: prompted mostly by thoughts of motive power….

 

At the moment the stud will be the 0-6-0 (currently in Warren Haywood’s paint shop), a half cab (to be made) followed lastly by a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 (also to be made). This last creation will handle the quay traffic down to the mill. The specific idea I have brewing is to also employ the MW as motive power for a ‘works train’ which serves the mill workers and possibly workers associated with another industry down that end of the layout (brewery?). To this end, I imagine the MW in a free-lance livery - something perhaps like GE blue, with a free-lance coach of some antiquity to match. 
 

So, firstly what do folk think of this plan?

Secondly, do you know of any cheap-ish ways of sourcing a suitable coach (kit?) as I have no real experience of coaching stock as a whole. The MW will be from Slaters. 
 

Thanks!

 

Inspiration acknowledgments to @wenlock for his ‘Lady Jayne’ spotted shunting at Sherton Abbas over the weekend at Uckfield! And also congrats to him for ‘Best in Show’ as chosen by the exhibitors. Well deserved! 

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6 minutes ago, Tricky said:

I have another idea brewing: prompted mostly by thoughts of motive power….

 

At the moment the stud will be the 0-6-0 (currently in Warren Haywood’s paint shop), a half cab (to be made) followed lastly by a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 (also to be made). This last creation will handle the quay traffic down to the mill. The specific idea I have brewing is to also employ the MW as motive power for a ‘works train’ which serves the mill workers and possibly workers associated with another industry down that end of the layout (brewery?). To this end, I imagine the MW in a free-lance livery - something perhaps like GE blue, with a free-lance coach of some antiquity to match. 
 

So, firstly what do folk think of this plan?

Secondly, do you know of any cheap-ish ways of sourcing a suitable coach (kit?) as I have no real experience of coaching stock as a whole. The MW will be from Slaters. 
 

Thanks!

 

Inspiration acknowledgments to @wenlock for his ‘Lady Jayne’ spotted shunting at Sherton Abbas over the weekend at Uckfield! And also congrats to him for ‘Best in Show’ as chosen by the exhibitors. Well deserved! 

 

Sounds like a good plan to me Richard. What about a Slaters coach kit? It could be ex-MR or ex-GWR as desired. My little industrials are in a fictitious livery similar to that which you describe, my Peckett shown below.

 IMG_0107.JPG.86614f09a29df1318feafa0bdf026cfe.JPG

 

Dave

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9 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Sounds like a good plan to me Richard. What about a Slaters coach kit? It could be ex-MR or ex-GWR as desired. My little industrials are in a fictitious livery similar to that which you describe, my Peckett shown below.

 IMG_0107.JPG.86614f09a29df1318feafa0bdf026cfe.JPG

 

Dave

That’s the ticket! Great minds….

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5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

More inspiration here perhaps?

 

 

Yes, that’s the sort of thing - that shot of the train made up of two short coaches. The two-tone livery is quite attractive. 
If this idea is to work though I need to create a run-round at the left hand end. Pushing coaches back down the line won’t look quite right. 

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17 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Pushing coaches back down the line won’t look quite right. 

You may say that but if you look at an old NLS map of the Whittingham County Asylum Line (comes off the LNWR/L&YR Preston - Longridge branch at Grimsargh), that's exactly what they did and I think I saw upthread that this was a reference for the model.

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17 hours ago, Tricky said:

I have another idea brewing: prompted mostly by thoughts of motive power….

 

At the moment the stud will be the 0-6-0 (currently in Warren Haywood’s paint shop), a half cab (to be made) followed lastly by a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 (also to be made). This last creation will handle the quay traffic down to the mill. The specific idea I have brewing is to also employ the MW as motive power for a ‘works train’ which serves the mill workers and possibly workers associated with another industry down that end of the layout (brewery?). To this end, I imagine the MW in a free-lance livery - something perhaps like GE blue, with a free-lance coach of some antiquity to match. 
 

So, firstly what do folk think of this plan?

Secondly, do you know of any cheap-ish ways of sourcing a suitable coach (kit?) as I have no real experience of coaching stock as a whole. The MW will be from Slaters. 
 

Thanks!

 

Inspiration acknowledgments to @wenlock for his ‘Lady Jayne’ spotted shunting at Sherton Abbas over the weekend at Uckfield! And also congrats to him for ‘Best in Show’ as chosen by the exhibitors. Well deserved! 

 

Hello Richard. A firm called Alphagrafix do a nice range of reasonably priced carriage kits including a number specifically for light railways, second hand sell offs etc.

 

  https://www.alphagraphixkits.co.uk/

 

Should take you there. I have two or three of their MSLR/GCR kits, with one underway. They are pretty basic but will provide a nice base for the sort of thing you are looking for.

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Holywell town branch always pushed trains into the station no mater what the stock was because of the gradient. Given that the branch is all down hill from the high street to the quay you have the justification to have the engine at the right hand side of the train. Unless you backdate your running period to include passenger trains to the old station or ignore the fact that they built a new station. Of course if you backdate you'll have to paint the locos in green and I quite like the midland green livery, plus you don't see midland layouts in green very often.

Regards Lez.  

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4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Hello Richard. A firm called Alphagrafix do a nice range of reasonably priced carriage kits including a number specifically for light railways, second hand sell offs etc.

 

  https://www.alphagraphixkits.co.uk/

 

Should take you there. I have two or three of their MSLR/GCR kits, with one underway. They are pretty basic but will provide a nice base for the sort of thing you are looking for.

Tony - that looks to be just what I’m looking for! As a novice, if I wanted a two-coach train, which would you go for? 

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22 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Tony - that looks to be just what I’m looking for! As a novice, if I wanted a two-coach train, which would you go for? 

 

I thought they might be!

 

For a workman's train, I would choose one of the 5 compartment all 3rds and a Brake 3rd.

 

If you are modelling pre-grouping times, you should avoid the types which might still have been in service and not withdrawn, such as the North London Carriages. They were not all withdrawn until the mid to late 1920s. If I was going to build such a train, I would suggest two of the K & E S R vehicles, possibly the ex GER Brake 3rd (many were withdrawn and sold in the late 1890s) and perhaps the ex CLC all 3rd. I am pretty sure that they were withdrawn quite early too.

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5 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Holywell town branch always pushed trains into the station no mater what the stock was because of the gradient.

Yes, but they were motor trains: steam rail motors or more often, loco and motor (driving) coach. Goods trains had a brakevan at each end (of no more than six wagons): one (at the loco end) was simply for braking the train on arrival at the terminus once the loco was detached, which shunted from the other end. Not sure that’s a true run round loop. The other van carried the guard: leading uphill, at the rear downhill.

 

The Prestatyn and Dyserth line similarly was worked by pushing up hill, including the goods trains. Unrlike Holywell Town, though, the P&D had sidings that were all accessible from downhill, so no run round was required.

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I think what I'm going to do is make a type of fiddle yard at the left hand end with two 'modules' - one for the coaches and another for the loco. They slide around on a board and interconnect via pattern-maker's dowels.  So the running-round happens off stage. If anyone does Instagram and Facebook they'll know what I mean from my posts on there...but I'll post some pics on here a bit later to illustrate.  I made a micro layout for a customer and his fiddle yard employed this scheme. It's quite ingenious ( and his idea, not mine!). 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I’m on a roll - I’ve started the (very) low relief buildings to the right hand end. The ones to the front will have an extremely shallow foreshortened platform running in front, plus another building to the left with an overhanging loading canopy. If the buildings themselves are low relief, then adding some features which protrude out will help give the illusion of depth. They’re all broadly based on buildings found in old photos of Tewkesbury quay found on line. Of course, the composition is purely fictional to suit my location. 

I will be painting the hills out of the backscene and convert it all to ‘sky’. 
 


341DF07C-0235-4812-85B6-595C50279DC2.jpeg.2a9a43f33c021f62c7c97356482c018f.jpeg65711AB3-A340-4C01-819E-15C07F04681F.jpeg.fb4fb974ea0a92efa932a80f0e1bd984.jpeg

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Lovely modelling, been nice to catch up with your progress of the last few weeks. 
 

I like the idea of adding in a little private owner line with the MW. For your timeframe, you’ll be looking for some carriages from the 1860s or 1870s, suggest you take a look at the carriage kits available from SER kits. There’s some suitably antiquated examples there: https://serkits.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/ser-kits-catalog-oct-2020.pdf

 

I’ve built one of the coupe first carriages for my light railway and it went together easily. 
 

Cheers,

Andrew

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9 hours ago, Andrew Young said:

Lovely modelling, been nice to catch up with your progress of the last few weeks. 
 

I like the idea of adding in a little private owner line with the MW. For your timeframe, you’ll be looking for some carriages from the 1860s or 1870s, suggest you take a look at the carriage kits available from SER kits. There’s some suitably antiquated examples there: https://serkits.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/ser-kits-catalog-oct-2020.pdf

 

I’ve built one of the coupe first carriages for my light railway and it went together easily. 
 

Cheers,

Andrew

Hi Andrew, many thanks but going on advice given by t-b-g above I’ve ordered a couple of kits from Alphagraphix. I will of course post build progress in due course. 

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On 18/10/2021 at 19:08, t-b-g said:

 

I thought they might be!

 

For a workman's train, I would choose one of the 5 compartment all 3rds and a Brake 3rd.

 

If you are modelling pre-grouping times, you should avoid the types which might still have been in service and not withdrawn, such as the North London Carriages. They were not all withdrawn until the mid to late 1920s. If I was going to build such a train, I would suggest two of the K & E S R vehicles, possibly the ex GER Brake 3rd (many were withdrawn and sold in the late 1890s) and perhaps the ex CLC all 3rd. I am pretty sure that they were withdrawn quite early too.

Look what I came across….D6F86DB6-AF7B-424E-9AD3-5B5797549DF8.jpeg.265463f1187fd4c93f13fa75ed57312c.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Tricky said:

Look what I came across….D6F86DB6-AF7B-424E-9AD3-5B5797549DF8.jpeg.265463f1187fd4c93f13fa75ed57312c.jpeg

 

Guilty!

 

I am just in the process of finishing a rake of GER 4 wheelers from etches by David Eveleigh for the same chap that I built the LTSR set for.

 

He also has a rake of LBSCR 4 wheelers from me and there is a set of District Railway 4 wheelers under way too.

 

There are a couple of locos that I did for him as well, which appear in the 4mm gallery on Ian Rathbone's website, namely a Terrier "Thames" and an LTSR 4-4-2T "St Pancras". I chickened out on the liveries and Ian did a brilliant job of them.

 

I am lucky having such a patient customer, who likes just the sorts of period and railways that I do.

 

Tony

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I wonder if I might pose a few questions regarding the passenger train - based on likely practice circa 1907 - ? 

 

1. Would it have been vacuum fitted? Or as it’s only two coaches would the brake coach and loco brake have sufficed? 

 

2. Would the MW Loco and coaches use screw couplings or 3 link and a pair of safety chains?

 

3. Would the two coaches have been close-coupled, or joined in a different way than screw or 3-link? 
 

As the Loco and coaches won’t be representing a real prototype I’m not overly concerned but it would be nice to get it looking plausible. I’m looking forward to building the coach kits as I’ve never built coaches before. Also pondering livery options for them and the loco. Aesthetically they need to complement crimson lake. What about teak coaches and a black loco? 
 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tricky said:

I wonder if I might pose a few questions regarding the passenger train - based on likely practice circa 1907 - ? 

 

1. Would it have been vacuum fitted? Or as it’s only two coaches would the brake coach and loco brake have sufficed? 

 

2. Would the MW Loco and coaches use screw couplings or 3 link and a pair of safety chains?

 

3. Would the two coaches have been close-coupled, or joined in a different way than screw or 3-link? 

 

1. If running on the main line, then yes by law. I'm not sure about colliery lines and the like.

 

2. I would have thought screw by this date.

 

3. Could be close-coupled.

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1 hour ago, Tricky said:

I wonder if I might pose a few questions regarding the passenger train - based on likely practice circa 1907 - ? 

 

1. Would it have been vacuum fitted? Or as it’s only two coaches would the brake coach and loco brake have sufficed? 

 

2. Would the MW Loco and coaches use screw couplings or 3 link and a pair of safety chains?

 

3. Would the two coaches have been close-coupled, or joined in a different way than screw or 3-link? 
 

As the Loco and coaches won’t be representing a real prototype I’m not overly concerned but it would be nice to get it looking plausible. I’m looking forward to building the coach kits as I’ve never built coaches before. Also pondering livery options for them and the loco. Aesthetically they need to complement crimson lake. What about teak coaches and a black loco? 
 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

Although the carriages may have started life as varnished teak, the chances are that by the time they got sold off as second hand, they would be so old that the varnished teak finish would have deteriorated to the stage where many railways gave them a coat of brown paint instead. If the coaches were in such good nick that they could still varnish them (not lots of repairs and patches that would be visible) they would probably have kept them a bit longer.

 

So a painted finish is more likely.

 

Back at that period, many industrial locos tended to mirror the main line railways and go for liveries a bit fancier than black.

 

So if they were black, they might have some fancy lining.

 

I tend to think of what livery combinations worked on the main line railways and most of the companies that used teak or brown livery carriages hauled them with green locos, apart from the GER with their dark blue. There will be other variations and there were some black locos hauling brown carriages but they were much less common than green ones. I am totally biased but GCR green looks very nice with teak/brown!

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