Hornby RailRoad HST

[GWR-fan]

I have both the Lima HST and old Hornby tooled HST and several super detailed models.  I would happily run the Lima Swallow livery with a super detailed model.  The old Hornby tooling which seems to have been shelved for many years is OK to run with other Hornby tooled HST models but I would not mix with the Lima and super detailed models (chalk and cheese for looks).  For many modellers I believe the Limby Railroad model will be more than enough.  Hopefully Hornby will make full use of its tooling and release other Railroad liveries.

[Legend]

Agree I still run my Lima InterCity 125 alongside other HSTs and it looks good . I still have original Hornby ones (one being an original 1977 release that I repainted into Exec livery) but these ones are much more rudimentary . Principally they don't have roof deflectors and the headlight lenses are usually fairly crudely fitted . My Lima one is much better in that respect , so if the Railroad one follows the Lima model it should be reasonable . I also vote for a series of releases covering the main operators , with accompanying Mk3s but I doubt it will happen as it would dent the sales of the super detailed version @£269 per pair of powercars .  its alright releasing low cost models (eg 66) when its your competitor that suffers, but not when its your own model.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Legend

[GWR-fan]

Most likely a marketing ploy,  but I find that a pair of Railroad blue/grey HST locomotives at the same price as a Railroad "GWR" trainset with power cars, coach and track a little strange.  It would be odd if there was still licencing fees on a livery from the 1970's/early 1980's.  Perhaps the GWR livery is "dumbed down" to keep costs lower.  I would not mind a couple of pairs of the Railroad blue/grey livery to replace my mint Hornby tooled models.

[andyman7]

On 18/12/2019 at 14:55, MrTea said:

Just had a notification that this has come into stock at Hattons but it also looks as though Kernow have got theirs?

 

Given the current LNER HST Farewell tour this is almost perfect timing from Hornby! Hopefully it'll sell like hot cakes.

 

Has anyone got a photo of the models? On both the sites I've seen it's still the pre-production photo and I can't tell if the livery is more like the correct prototypical version with yellow cab roofs etc.?

 

I've seen the actual models which are considerably better than the catalogue pictures. The InterCity 125 logo is in outline and they are W43002 and W43003 so numbered correctly. If one is going to be picky, they have the logo with black centres which only represents the HST power cars in very early service (1976) as the infill quickly changed to blue; but the power cars have exhaust baffles and guard's window filled in which places them into the early 80s. 

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

Most likely a marketing ploy,  but I find that a pair of Railroad blue/grey HST locomotives at the same price as a Railroad "GWR" trainset with power cars, coach and track a little strange.  It would be odd if there was still licencing fees on a livery from the 1970's/early 1980's.  Perhaps the GWR livery is "dumbed down" to keep costs lower.  I would not mind a couple of pairs of the Railroad blue/grey livery to replace my mint Hornby tooled models.

The GWR train set has power cars based on the original 1970s Hornby tooling albeit with a new chassis and with the oversized bolt holes removed and light lens much more neatly fitted. The powered card only is lighted by LED, white light only which lights up in both directions of travel. I assume this is because otherwise the dummy car would need to be decoder socket fitted. Having said that, it is clearly a budget offering of a 'modern' train for those that don't want and old tyme steam train set and much to be welcomed. The Railroad power cars are ex-Lima and so a step up. So it appears that for HST models Hornby now offer 3 classes of travel.....

Edited December 19, 2019 by andyman7

[Legend]

• You really wonder why they would use the Old Hornby model and the Lima model ? 

[scottrains29]

58 minutes ago, Legend said:

• You really wonder why they would use the Old Hornby model and the Lima model ? 

They haven't used the old Hornby model in the GWR set, R1230. It is the Lima tooling, same as the railroad offering. The picture on the outer box is the old Hornby model but looking at Hattons shows the actual model is the ex Lima offering, with Limby motor and DCC socket. Strange why they didn't use the better looking ex-Lima model for the box picture.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430642/hornby_r1230_starter_train_set_gwr_high_speed_train_/stockdetail.aspx

[87004]

8 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

They haven't used the old Hornby model in the GWR set, R1230. It is the Lima tooling, same as the railroad offering. The picture on the outer box is the old Hornby model but looking at Hattons shows the actual model is the ex Lima offering, with Limby motor and DCC socket. Strange why they didn't use the better looking ex-Lima model for the box picture.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430642/hornby_r1230_starter_train_set_gwr_high_speed_train_/stockdetail.aspx

I expect the artwork has been prepared for at least 12 months, long before the model itself actually existed.  Hornby are big users of Photo-shop and renders for prospective models.   Most people won't notice the difference between the box lid and the model.  Those that do will be pleasantly surprised.

Edited December 20, 2019 by 87004
typo

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The GWR train set has power cars based on the original 1970s Hornby tooling albeit with a new chassis and with the oversized bolt holes removed and light lens much more neatly fitted. The powered card only is lighted by LED, white light only which lights up in both directions of travel. I assume this is because otherwise the dummy car would need to be decoder socket fitted. Having said that, it is clearly a budget offering of a 'modern' train for those that don't want and old tyme steam train set and much to be welcomed. The Railroad power cars are ex-Lima and so a step up. So it appears that for HST models Hornby now offer 3 classes of travel.....

The GWR HST Train Set (R1230) utilizes the ex-Lima tooling and has been updated with a 5-pole motor and a DCC socket.

[andyman7]

9 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

The GWR HST Train Set (R1230) utilizes the ex-Lima tooling and has been updated with a 5-pole motor and a DCC socket.

Ah, OK, I haven't had the chance to compare the mouldings so I was working off the fact that the box/artwork was clearly from the old Hornby tools. But it makes sense to use a single set of tools and the Lima mouldings are a step ahead.

[MrTea]

Quick update: 

After following the HST Farewell railtour on Twitter I caved in  and ordered a set of power cars from a well known box-shifter. 
 

I’ll post a few pics when I get the models if anyone is interested?

 

One thing that is interesting and maybe slightly disappointing is that apparently only the powered model of the pair is DCC ready (I discovered this when I ordered the model over the phone). I guess that’s fair enough and not really a surprise but it is frustrating when the TTS DCC chips with the Valenta sounds are sold in a pair. That means if you buy the model and want sound in both power cars you’ve either got quite a lot of work to do or you’ll have a silent dummy power car and a spare DCC chip. 

But overall you’re still saving over a hundred quid over the ‘full fat’ version. 

[acg5324]

Only the powered car is DCC ready and has headlights but no tailights. The dummy car doesn’t have any pickups hence no head or tail lights.

[Waverley47708]

I am looking to repower a couple of old Lima HSTs I have with the motors from these ones.

 

If I can source motor from this release (the blue grey will it drop into and old Lima chassis.  Or will I need to buy the chassis and motor and will an old Lima body attach to the new chassis.

 

Pictures of the inside, motor and inside of body would be appreciated.

 

Slightly confused but are we saying the GWR railroad is the old Hornby model and the blue grey are the old Lima.

 

[MrTea]

7 minutes ago, Waverley47708 said:

Pictures of the inside, motor and inside of body would be appreciated.

 

Slightly confused but are we saying the GWR railroad is the old Hornby model and the blue grey are the old Lima.

 

Ok. I’ll upload some pics once it’s arrived. 
 

As @MGR Hooper! says above both models use the ex-Lima tooling. The box artwork on the GWR train set is the source of the confusion as it features the pre-super detail era Hornby mouldings. 
 

It’s also not helped by the pricing strategy as @GWR-fan points out - you can get a train set complete with a carriage, track and controller for the same price as two blue/grey power cars. 

[RAF96]

If you go here and scroll down the list...

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/articles.html

Article 11 deals with remotoring (DVD unit) and Article 10 deals with lights. Ref is made to additional pickups including for  the dummy car.

[Waverley47708]

14 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

If you go here and scroll down the list...

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/articles.html

Article 11 deals with remotoring (DVD unit) and Article 10 deals with lights. Ref is made to additional pickups including for  the dummy car.

 

Thanks, but been there done that.  Seems that CD motors don't like Gaugemaster controllers and it lasted an hour or so.  At least that was the advice I got from the Ebay seller who to his credit gave me a full refund.

[adb968008]

On 19/12/2019 at 10:34, Legend said:

 its alright releasing low cost models (eg 66) when its your competitor that suffers, but not when its your own model.

B17/4, Black 5, class 08, 31, A3, A4, Schools, B12 just from memory.. seem to be coexisting in the range overlapping.

 

31 and Schools in railroad seem to be more long living than their detailed counterparts.

Edited December 22, 2019 by adb968008

[Waverley47708]

50 minutes ago, MrTea said:

Ok. I’ll upload some pics once it’s arrived. 
 

As @MGR Hooper! says above both models use the ex-Lima tooling. The box artwork on the GWR train set is the source of the confusion as it features the pre-super detail era Hornby mouldings. 
 

It’s also not helped by the pricing strategy as @GWR-fan points out - you can get a train set complete with a carriage, track and controller for the same price as two blue/grey power cars. 

 

Thanks, looking at the photos and of the rear boogie in particular, I suspect it may need a replacement chassis or a mod to the original Lima one to fir a new motor.

[Legend]

30 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

B17/4, Black 5, class 08, 31, A3, A4, Schools, B12 just from memory.. seem to be coexisting in the range overlapping.

 

31 and Schools in railroad seem to be more long living than their detailed counterparts.

 

Have to admit you make very good point there , except I’d say that’s more a result of their confused marketing . 

[tarifa]

2 hours ago, Waverley47708 said:

I am looking to repower a couple of old Lima HSTs I have with the motors from these ones.

 

If I can source motor from this release (the blue grey will it drop into and old Lima chassis.  Or will I need to buy the chassis and motor and will an old Lima body attach to the new chassis.

Back in the 80's before the advent of the Hornby Super HST I re-motored and fitted lights to my Lima model.  It will pull 12 coaches at a scale 125+mph (OK I don't need 12 coaches). When the V4 sound chips arrived I fitted a couple of spare V3.5's.  You may be interested in these photos as a pointer.  The motor is a Cannon and the power car speaker is bespoke.  The model does not look out of place running with the Hornby super detailed  HST.

 

Mike

 

[JohnR]

Had a quick test run of mine that I bought on a whim after seeing all the HST farewell stuff on LNER these last few days. They look really good, and the livery application along lifts the old Lima mouldings.

 

However, I am disappointed that only one power car is fitted with lights - and only white ones. Its most disconcerting to have no headlights when running with the dummy car leading, and the rear power car showing headlights instead of red marker lights.

 

Any tips on how to upgrade the lighting? I quite fancy splashing out on the TTS Valenta chips too. 

[Waverley47708]

Have been looking around the web, but cant find a service sheet for the Railroad HST yet.  Looking at the other railroad diesels they seems to have gone for a different chassis to the old Lima where there is a single connection on top of the motor that connects into a bridge on the chassis.

 

As a result assuming the chassis will fit into the Lima body (fingers crossed) I'd need a new motor, chassis and most likely a front boogie.

 

 

[miles73128]

2 minutes ago, Waverley47708 said:

Have been looking around the web, but cant find a service sheet for the Railroad HST yet.  Looking at the other railroad diesels they seems to have gone for a different chassis to the old Lima where there is a single connection on top of the motor that connects into a bridge on the chassis.

 

As a result assuming the chassis will fit into the Lima body (fingers crossed) I'd need a new motor, chassis and most likely a front boogie.

 

 

Far easier to buy this new HST pack or R2707 (Virgin) and swap the bodies over? 

[Waverley47708]

26 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

Far easier to buy this new HST pack or R2707 (Virgin) and swap the bodies over? 

 

Thanks, had not realised these ones were potential donors.

 

Unfortunately a quick look on the web and (annoyingly) even places with them listed with a price are "Out of Stock".

 

Will keep my eye out.

 

Are you able to confirm the old Lima body will fit onto these Railroad chassis.

 

Even using that R number still can't find a Hornby service sheet.

 

Of course all this assumes the railroad motor is better than a serviced, wheels kept clean Lima motor in the first place!

 

Just to add to the confusion there is an old Hornby version of the Virgin HST aswell.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Waverley47708

[Hroth]

I was disappinted that the dummy power car was indeed excessively dumbed down.  One retailer had been advertising that R3608 required 2 decoder chips right up to the point they received stock, and I put the price differential between that and the trainset down to the unmotored power car of R3608 being DCC ready!

 

Oh well, a bit of work to put pickups on the wheels, a couple of LEDs/resistors and an 8 pin socket (only a fiver or so, even at retail prices) and matters should be remedied.  I suppose there should also be a high-wattage resistance installed between the motor pins too, as in the TTS van, to allow easier setting of CV values. 

 

I bet some thicko cost-accountant at Hornby was at fault to make a few more pence profit on the Train Pack...