Repairs to Hornby Bulleid Pacific; wheels not rotating more than half turn.

[John Tomlinson]

12 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I have decided that I was too ambitious when I decided on a collection of loco's to serve my pathetically slowly developing layout. Not a clever idea really but who can resist bargains eh? I could easily have made do with half a dozen Packets and a dozen or so Spams of both modified and 'original' form examples. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and in my case is probably better described as having my head up my own asr$e when planning things. Hey ho, first world problems.

P 

FWIW I think I have seven "Spams", all bought second hand on Ebay - as you say who can resist a bargain!

 

I think four of them, if not five have needed attention for congealed grease jamming the axles - usually the driving axle - which if power had been applied for a long period would have burnt out the motor. Mint/ unused and 10 plus years old seems to lead to a surefire grease problem.

 

I'm not sure I've had any split gears, although I do have a set of spare driving wheels in the drawer "just in case". I have had split gears - the loud "click" - on a King Arthur and simply replaced the wheelset - job done.

 

All my "Spams" have had plasticard spacers fitted to the chassis around the front axle holes - a simple "U" shape, no need to take wheels off axles - and that cured the proclivity to mangle connecting rods on curves because of excess sideplay.

 

As with other Hornby models the pick-up system isn't foolproof and the contact inside the baseplate on one side can easily not work. If your loco won't go without the tender attached this may well be the problem. I've slipped in small slivers of metal after a good clean to make this contact less unreliable.

 

My jury is still out on the sprung rear axle on most of my "Spams", I'm begining to conclude this reduces adhesion as it allows too much movement, I suspect it also can lead to something of a "clonking" noise as the rods pull the wheels up and down on the track in rotation. Not completely sure on this one, perhaps one day I do some proper experiments.

 

Having said all that, I think they are a great model - with the detailing bits added, etched plates and cylinder drainpipes, and closing of the loco/ tender gap they really do it for me!

 

John.

 

 

[Barry Ten]

It's only one data point, but of my three Rebuilt Spams, the only one that didn't go wrong was the one I weathered, detailed and ran from time to time. The two that were tested and then put in their boxes (and then up in the attic) for a few years) were the ones that gave the problems. 

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

Could you or Ian perhaps spill the beans on what was wrong and how it was fixed, please.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

 

Pretty sure both had split gears on the "top" gear, the one that engages with the worm, but in those cases I was able to get spares. It was only after

fitting the new gears that it became clear something else was up with both models. I think in one Ian had to replace the driving gear and wheelset, but

in the other it was just locked bearings/gunk creating the same issues. I'm not sure if the idler gear, deep in the chassis, was split as well. These

things are a swine to take apart, too.

 

I had this with a Black 5 which initially seemed to have all the symptoms of split gears, after being in storage, but which gradually sorted itself out

until it became a good runner again.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

...As with other Hornby models the pick-up system isn't foolproof and the contact inside the baseplate on one side can easily not work. If your loco won't go without the tender attached this may well be the problem. I've slipped in small slivers of metal after a good clean to make this contact less unreliable.

 

My jury is still out on the sprung rear axle on most of my "Spams", I'm begining to conclude this reduces adhesion as it allows too much movement, I suspect it also can lead to something of a "clonking" noise as the rods pull the wheels up and down on the track in rotation. Not completely sure on this one, perhaps one day I do some proper experiments...

In common with all the steam models that I have seen from Sanda Kan before the Britannia, the unreliable pick up contact using the chassis block in the conduction path has to go. Snap off the cast 'peg' on the chassis block underside, unsolder the link from the chassis block to the decoder socket, and solder in a wire between the wiper strip and the decoder socket making clearance for a path as required. (That done you won't need the tender pick up, so if desired you can do either or both of discard the horrible loco to tender link and replace with a plain link, and remove or take out of contact the tender wheel wipers for reduced drag.)

 

Fixing the rear coupled axle so that all the wheels are on the rails is a good plan. A stiff enough spring so that the gear axle is then only lightly loaded is even better, if you can arrange that. (Same fix on the Bachmann Pepp A1 and A2; on these it is the leading coupled axle that has a soft spring, equally disadvantageous...)

 

12 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

It's only one data point, but of my three Rebuilt Spams, the only one that didn't go wrong was the one I weathered, detailed and ran from time to time. The two that were tested and then put in their boxes (and then up in the attic) for a few years) were the ones that gave the problems. 

If you know models are going into store for years, run them several hours on track forward and reverse and both directions around the smallest curves you plan to use until consistently quiet, smooth and free running. That ensures that any grease is well distributed in a thin film over the full working range of the moving parts. The model may still be 'gummed up' after storage because the volatiles in the lubricant have evaporated, but a small dot of light oil on every moving part and a little movement will quickly restore the previous performance as the lubricant residue dissolves in the fresh oil.

[RedgateModels]

18 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Pretty sure both had split gears on the "top" gear, the one that engages with the worm, but in those cases I was able to get spares. It was only after

fitting the new gears that it became clear something else was up with both models. I think in one Ian had to replace the driving gear and wheelset, but

in the other it was just locked bearings/gunk creating the same issues. I'm not sure if the idler gear, deep in the chassis, was split as well. These

things are a swine to take apart, too.

 

I had this with a Black 5 which initially seemed to have all the symptoms of split gears, after being in storage, but which gradually sorted itself out

until it became a good runner again.

 

Just to clarify, your two locos both had locked axle bearings on the axles. One had all six bearings locked which once freed up and lubricated with silicone oil ran perfectly. The other had locked bearings on the front driver only. This may have lead to extra strain being put on the centre drive gear on the axle which was slipping on the splines of the axle. This necessitated a replacement wheelset. Neither loco needed the intermediate gears replacing, unless this had already been done of course

 

The main thing that makes these fiddly to work on is the wiring passing from the pickups to the circuit board, the hole that they pass through is small and they do not want to pull through to allow some freedom of movement ......

[John Tomlinson]

Many thanks to Barry Ten, 34B-D, and Ian/ Redgate for your prompt responses.

 

I shall have a play with the springing and pick-up arrrangements on the basis of the advice.

 

John.

[TRAILRAGE]

My Father recently gave me a Railroad DOG which although had been ran in had barely been used.

Problem is it going forward it runs like a DOG! Reverse is smooth as can be. He did say he thought it was like it when he first ran it but I've been running it for weeks and so far no improvement.   I did take a film on my phone of it running in each direction (about 10 secs) but it's 18mb I cannot upload.

 

2 questions come to mind :-

 

1 If it was quatering would the running be the same in both directions ?

2 If it was a split gear would the running be the same in both directions ?

 

Ayone else experienced this with theirs?

 

Cheers Trailrage

[Mallard60022]

21 minutes ago, TRAILRAGE said:

My Father recently gave me a Railroad DOG which although had been ran in had barely been used.

Problem is it going forward it runs like a DOG! Reverse is smooth as can be. He did say he thought it was like it when he first ran it but I've been running it for weeks and so far no improvement.   I did take a film on my phone of it running in each direction (about 10 secs) but it's 18mb I cannot upload.

 

2 questions come to mind :-

 

1 If it was quatering would the running be the same in both directions ?

2 If it was a split gear would the running be the same in both directions ?

 

Ayone else experienced this with theirs?

 

Cheers Trailrage

Not got a DOG but I also have too many that behave like 3 legged Dogs!! It is, as someone pointed out above, a grease drying problem after storage or long display. I am being so much more careful now as a Loco comes out for a run in after a long storage, plenty of fresh oil in the lube places. Little bit of easing with fingers and then a little power added very carefully and gradually on the Rolling Road. 

Aa for your DOG I would hazard a guess at 1 = Yes and  2 = maybe. Sorry if that is vague!

P