Southern Railway - Electrified Branch Line Services

[Wickham Green]

10 minutes ago, Big James said:

The marshlink line between Ashford and Hastings is still unelectrified in places due to it being marked for closure by the beeching report. 

 

Big james 

All the way from Ore to Ashford, in fact .............................. amazing Ore has kept the third rail as there's no need to access the car sheds there, now !

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

All the way from Ore to Ashford, in fact .............................. amazing Ore has kept the third rail as there's no need to access the car sheds there, now !

There used to be an Electrical Control there, although I suspect it is long gone. But franchises bid on a spec that included trains to Ore, so I imagine they will continue for some years yet. 

[Nearholmer]

Substation and (still I think) intake from the grid at Ore, so it’s near-zero-marginal-cost to keep that bit electrified, and it certainly used to help free-up platform space at Hastings by acting as an elongated turnback siding.

 

as well as the BR ECR, there used to be a grid oil-fires generating station there, but I guess that is either gas or closed now.

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

Substation and (still I think) intake from the grid at Ore, so it’s near-zero-marginal-cost to keep that bit electrified, and it certainly used to help free-up platform space at Hastings by acting as an elongated turnback siding.

 

as well as the BR ECR, there used to be a grid oil-fires generating station there, but I guess that is either gas or closed now.

Ah, the jet engine. 

[Nearholmer]

RR Avon, the same generic class of engines as are used in London Transport’s Greenwich GS (unless rebuild has progressed beyond that in the past couple of years).

 

The basic design is still in production as an industrial generator engine.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Nearholmer

[DY444]

39 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

There used to be an Electrical Control there, although I suspect it is long gone. But franchises bid on a spec that included trains to Ore, so I imagine they will continue for some years yet. 

 

The Hastings area is supervised by Paddock Wood ECR these days.

[Nearholmer]

All of which brings back memories of the accidental paralleling of Three Bridges and Ore grids via the railway 33kV network, which caused a certain amount of embarrassment.

[Zomboid]

22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Substation and (still I think) intake from the grid at Ore, so it’s near-zero-marginal-cost to keep that bit electrified, and it certainly used to help free-up platform space at Hastings by acting as an elongated turnback siding.

 

as well as the BR ECR, there used to be a grid oil-fires generating station there, but I guess that is either gas or closed now.

Correct, still a grid intake. The third rail might not see much wear to it's top surface these days, but it does supply about half the power to Hastings station (the next sub still being at Bopeep). Removing it would be an expensive downgrade.

[Zomboid]

7 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

The Hastings area is supervised by Paddock Wood ECR these days.

Does St Leonards count as Hastings area? The coastway is Brighton up to there.

[talisman56]

16 hours ago, Matloughe said:

 

... the branch line itself would be single track very much like the Horsted Keynes Branch ...

 

 

When the Horsted Keynes branch from Copyhold Junction was originally electrified, it was double track. It only became single when reduced traffic warranted it and TPTB wanted somewhere to store all the withdrawn pre-group coaching stock, and later on, the Kent Coast Electrification stock while it was awaiting entry into service.

[Matloughe]

Yes that's right Talisman I suspect the electrification to Horsted Keynes never justified the cost on expenditure. How different things might've been if the East Grinstead line was electrified sooner. 

 

 

[DY444]

5 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Does St Leonards count as Hastings area? The coastway is Brighton up to there.

 

Yes.  St Leonards is Paddock Wood ECR not Brighton.  The boundary between Brighton ECR and Paddock Wood ECR is at Bexhill East TP Hut. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by DY444

[melmoth]

2 hours ago, Matloughe said:

Yes that's right Talisman I suspect the electrification to Horsted Keynes never justified the cost on expenditure. How different things might've been if the East Grinstead line was electrified sooner. 

 

 

 

You're right, but it was justified on operational grounds, much as the original electrification to West Worthing (rather than just to Worthing), and Ore (as noted above) was justified. It meant being able to store and turn/reverse stock out of the way of otherwise busy locations without adequate provision for storage/stabling of stock.

[bécasse]

The Haywards Heath - Horsted Keynes line did see at least one regular steam service until May 1955, a mid afternoon northbound service which continued to East Grinstead and beyond, typically hauled by a K.

Many through electrified lines on the Southern continued to see one early morning steam train bringing newspapers down from London, most included nominal passenger accommodation.

[Nearholmer]

Actually, the “electrification cut short by the war”, as with the fifty year wait to finish the east grinstead bit, is probably a more plausible scenario for prolonged steam/electric working than many others ......... although it sort of doesn’t work for a BLT.

[Zomboid]

2 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Yes.  St Leonards is Paddock Wood ECR not Brighton.  The boundary between Brighton ECR and Paddock Wood ECR is at Bexhill East TP Hut. 

The boundary site is actually Bopeep substation. The tracks and feeder towards Bexhill, plus the depot feeds IIRC are Brighton and the rest is Paddock Wood.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Yes.  St Leonards is Paddock Wood ECR not Brighton.  The boundary between Brighton ECR and Paddock Wood ECR is at Bexhill East TP Hut. 

 

10 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

The boundary site is actually Bopeep substation. The tracks and feeder towards Bexhill, plus the depot feeds IIRC are Brighton and the rest is Paddock Wood.

If I recall correctly, the Central Division boundary used to be Bo-Peep Junction (exclusive).

[DY444]

9 hours ago, Zomboid said:

The boundary site is actually Bopeep substation. The tracks and feeder towards Bexhill, plus the depot feeds IIRC are Brighton and the rest is Paddock Wood.

 

Then the SA is wrong because that shows the depot and line as far as Bexhill TP hut as being under Paddock Wood.

 

Edit.  This image of part of Paddock Wood ECR panel seems to suggest that the SA is correct

 

https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/11407/category/1101-paddock_wood_ecr

Edited June 27, 2019 by DY444

[Zomboid]

Interesting, because the 267 shows Bopeep as the boundary.

 

But perhaps they can both be right, since that picture doesn't show the HV along the coastway. I'm sure there were B prefix DC breakers when I last went to Bopeep, but that was a while ago so maybe I'm misremembering it.

[Nearholmer]

Bo-Peep was controlled from Three Bridges when I recall, IIRC, with the panel altered to incorporate the former Ore area. I’ve got a hazy recollection that there was some sort of primitive TDM link from one ECR to the other, rather than the ASEA system going all the way back, but I might have dreamt that. I’ve got 35mm slide pictures of bits of it ...... somewhere.

 

And, it’s a miracle that anything works propely at all on the current system from Paddock Wood, because I wired some of it within the substations. Deadlines became deeply pressing just before energisation, and anyone who had even the slightest “trade competence” was drafted from the office to site!

 

Have we gone a bit OT?

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Have we gone a bit OT?

Maybe, from the OP's perspective. But the unglamorous part of Southern's third-rail system, the power supply, gets insufficient airing, so hearing from people who know makes a refreshing change.

[The Lurker]

and I never knew that the place I grew up had an ECR role!

[Zomboid]

Paddock Wood shouldn't work. IIRC it's got those slopey desks so the ECRO doesn't have anywhere to put their tea. Everyone knows that the railway runs on tea.

[Wickham Green]

Can't you devise a non-slip wedge to put your tea cup on ?

[lanchester]

20 hours ago, bécasse said:

The Haywards Heath - Horsted Keynes line did see at least one regular steam service until May 1955, a mid afternoon northbound service which continued to East Grinstead and beyond, typically hauled by a K.

Many through electrified lines on the Southern continued to see one early morning steam train bringing newspapers down from London, most included nominal passenger accommodation.

In similar vein, could the OP allow himself a daily steam service with the potential to run 'mixed' against the possible need to move livestock (which can't be left lying around to wait for the weekly pick-up goods)? Or perhaps there is a daily milk van? which again doesn't want to sit in the sun while shunting takes place at leisure.