Class 25/3 on the Waverley Route

[Blobrick]

Can anyone please enlighten me?

 

I seem to recall that both Eastfield and Haymarket depots received a small allocation of class 25/3s when new in 1966/67. Does anyone know if the Haymarket 25/3s ever ventured onto the Waverley route, or alternatively did any of the LMR 25/3s reach the route?  I ve noted a couple of  Waverley based layouts here on RMweb have 25/3s featured on them, however  l confess l don't think l ve ever seen a photo or heard mention of this  actually occurring ?

 

Bob C

Edited June 25, 2019 by Blobrick

[AJCT]

Quite a lot of useful info on here - http://www.derbysulzers.com/ , specifically  http://www.derbysulzers.com/66.html - this mentions the batch of Class 25s D7611-7623 delivered new to Eastfield from April 1966.  These were the only 25s fitted with cabside tablet-catcher recesses, though I've never seen any pics of them with catchers actually fitted.  According to BR Database http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=7599&type=D&loco=D7599 , D7598-7601 were allocated to Eastfield around 1966/67 (but not from new) and D7602-7608 to Haymarket from 1966-69 (again, transferred from elsewhere).  A list of diesel locos seen at Hawick, which I got from the Hawick & District Club several years ago, shows D7599, D7601-8 and D7617: there are a few pics of 25s on the Waverley on RailScot, eg https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/820/ , https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/17/882/ (unfortunately without numbers) and https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/40/103/ .  I'm modelling D7604 and D7617....

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

[Blobrick]

8 hours ago, AJCT said:

Quite a lot of useful info on here - http://www.derbysulzers.com/ , specifically  http://www.derbysulzers.com/66.html - this mentions the batch of Class 25s D7611-7623 delivered new to Eastfield from April 1966.  These were the only 25s fitted with cabside tablet-catcher recesses, though I've never seen any pics of them with catchers actually fitted.  According to BR Database http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=7599&type=D&loco=D7599 , D7598-7601 were allocated to Eastfield around 1966/67 (but not from new) and D7602-7608 to Haymarket from 1966-69 (again, transferred from elsewhere).  A list of diesel locos seen at Hawick, which I got from the Hawick & District Club several years ago, shows D7599, D7601-8 and D7617: there are a few pics of 25s on the Waverley on RailScot, eg https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/820/ , https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/17/882/ (unfortunately without numbers) and https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/40/103/ .  I'm modelling D7604 and D7617....

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

Good evening Alasdair

 

Thanks for the pointers and links, all really helpful information. I had tried going through the RailScot site, but had found it not the easiest of sites to navigate, so your links are most welcome. It seems the 25/3 tended to keep themselves to the Edinburgh side of Hawick, so l think l ll be dusting off my plans for Falahill loops!

 

Once again many thanks for your help

 

Bob C

['CHARD]

Sorry for the delay in responding, only just at my lapdog!

 

Haymarket's ex-Barrow Hill allocation D7602-08 worked prolifically in pairs on the inter-yard MH - KM 4M4X and return 4S4X fast fitted freights during 1967-68.  They were non-boilered of course, but appeared with regularity on the Millerhill - Hawick freight out for the Hawick - Waverley Class 2 back.

 

I will happily provide more detail and specific workings when I have more time at the weekend.

[AJCT]

10 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

Sorry for the delay in responding, only just at my lapdog!

 

Haymarket's ex-Barrow Hill allocation D7602-08 worked prolifically in pairs on the inter-yard MH - KM 4M4X and return 4S4X fast fitted freights during 1967-68.  They were non-boilered of course, but appeared with regularity on the Millerhill - Hawick freight out for the Hawick - Waverley Class 2 back.

 

I will happily provide more detail and specific workings when I have more time at the weekend.

 

Well, you learn something every day... look forward to reading your info on this IDC.  Just what I need to run my pair in multiple....

 

Alasdair

[Bill Jamieson]

Just spotted this - I have a copy of Kenneth Gray's observations from July 1967 to March 1968 (courtesy of Bruce) and can confirm that locos from the D7602-08 batch appeared regularly on Millerhill to Carlisle New Yard freights either singly or in pairs - too numerous to list.

 

From the final Hawick South SB register it looks as if the final double-headed workings were on Tuesday 31st December 1968 when D7605+7607 worked 09:52 Millerhill-Carlisle and 13:25 return, but not all the signalmen recorded loco numbers, so something else could have slipped through unnoticed, although that would only have been possible late evening on Friday 3rd January / early morning on Saturday 4th.

 

Appearances post closure as a through route on trip freight E10 from Millerhill to Hawick included D7608 on 24th March 1969 and D7607 on 4th April 1969 - see David Spaven's 'Border Union Dream' book for a number of photos and an account by Andrew Boyd of the 24th March working.

 

Bill

Edited March 27, 2020 by Bill Jamieson

[37175]

17 hours ago, Bill Jamieson said:

Just spotted this - I have a copy of Kenneth Gray's observations from July 1967 to March 1968 (courtesy of Bruce) and can confirm that locos from the D7602-08 batch appeared regularly on Millerhill to Carlisle New Yard freights either singly or in pairs - too numerous to list.

 

I've seen ciné footage of a pair of 25/3s heading a Kingmoor to Millerhill through Newcastleton, no dates or loco IDs. Guessing it was filmed sometime in '67.

[Bill Jamieson]

PS Scanning through the last Hawick South SB register for double-headed workings, I noticed that on Tuesday 31st December 1968 No. 7604 worked light from Edinburgh to Hawick arriving there at 12:24. It departed back north at 12:43 hauling presumably-failed Clayton No. 8612, which had replaced classmate No. 8574 the previous Saturday as Hawick pilot (changing the pilot loco on a Saturday seems to have been normal). No. 8612 can't have done very much at Hawick because No. 8583 was sent down from Edinburgh early on Monday morning to replace it, arriving in Hawick at 06:42. The normal changeover happened again on Saturday 4th January with No. 8606 replacing No. 8583. This might seem a bit odd so close to the end but No. 8606 found employment the following week on what the register describes as 'ballast' duties on the line south of Hawick (now in the possession of the Civil Engineer) - presumably the recovery of materials had started. The register entry for Wednesday 8th January states "Ballast entered dead line @ 08:45". Entries for the following Sunday and Monday are more specific with the destination stated as Riddings.

 

To return to No. 7604, I am now 99.9% certain that this Robin Barbour shot on Railscot https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/820/  records the southbound LE working on 31/12/68, and Bruce, who was at Stow with Robin, agrees with me.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/801/ was taken on the same day and the loco can be identified from the Hawick South register as EE Type 4 No. 262 (note headcode box which is correct for this loco).

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/17/882/ might depict the northbound working of Nos. 7604 and 8612 later the same day but if so the weather has deteriorated significantly from when Robin and Bruce were at Stow. The BR Sulzer Type 2 is facing the same way as in the Stow shot but that's hardly conclusive proof!

 

Bill

 

['CHARD]

Further to what Bill has said above, I have done extensive study of the freight workings, and loco patterns particularly with a view to sorting out the diagrams during 1967-68. 

 

Following their move north from Barrow Hill, the 25/3s put in extensive work on the Waverley Route both singly and in pairs.  Their solo efforts were generally on the daily freights calling at the remaining intermediate yards as far as Hawick.  Being non-boilered they were rare on passenger work but that's not to say they wouldn't make odd appearances deputising for booked traction or at short notice swapped for failures.  The first train to Waverley from Hawick was a popular kick-out for unusual power.

 

As pairs, the batch made its presence felt on the 4Sxx and 4Mxx inter-yard freights around the clock, on occasion paired with other units from Classes 26 or 24.

[Bill Jamieson]

Just for completeness, here are all the 76xx workings through Hawick I can find in the last SB register - a new book  was started on the evening of Monday 23rd December 1968. I have made an educated guess at balancing workings where loco numbers were not recorded by the signalman.

Bill

 

M 23/12/68

21:15   7606?   4M80 20:10 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard

T 24/12/68

01:07   7606   5S09 23:45 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill

F 27/12/68

09:30   7606   4Z 07:30 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard

12:15   7606   0S  Carlisle Yard - Millerhill

18:13   7606?  8M51 16:45 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard

22:14   7606   4S46   21:30 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill

S 28/12/68

02:32   7605+7606   4M46 01:25 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard

06:34   7605+7606   0S41  04:50 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill

T 31/12/68

11:23   7605+7607   4M65 09:52 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard

12:24   7604   0   Light engine ex Edinburgh (depart back north at 12:43 hauling 8612)

15:31   7605+7607   8S50 13:25 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Bill Jamieson