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DJM - Statement of Affairs released


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19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

More like inevitable than strange I would have thought ... but the worst aspect of it is that lots of folk put in their own money before it happened and that money will be lost unless they paid by credit card and can get it back.

 

Permit me to say that that post is a very good summary indeed of the whole sorry saga.  Or at least as much of it as has so far come to light ...

Edited by spikey
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12 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

 

Didn't at least one commissioner move their tooling and deal direct with the factory in the end?

Kernow didnt need to move their tooling, it was in the same factory.

The Beatties started under Dapol and were produced next under DJModels.

 

Kernows Chris and DJ (as DJModels)  went to China together when making the 2nd run of Beatties..

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/146/Chris-Briefs

 

you can see the “model of the year” award in 2011 for the Beattie, and it on display alongside an n gauge Dapol 4-6-0. You can also make out some Dapol assembly sheets (and Dragon Models tanks, and Australian Powerline stock) in some of the pictures.

 

I therefore think its no coincidence the Dapol Western and the D600 share identical packaging and look to have similar approach when it comes to design, despite Kernow going direct to the factory with the D600.

 

I could be wrong but i’m fairly certain its these guys..

http://www.shinedew.com/

 

 

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I must say , I don't understand the obsession with spending a fortune on making moulds for building plastic models of obscure prototypes, when the likely production run is only a few hundred, and the all the fabulous details get knocked off, and the plastic gears all wear out if you actually use the things. And of course, if it's a one-off, crowd funded model, there are no spares or after sales service for fixing any damage. And in 5 years time, new customers are back to the same situation that there are none available.

 

I don't remember Hornby Dublo models only being available as limited run items. And a heck of a lot of them are still going strong, having been passed down through maybe 4 or more generations.

 

But then I'm just an old chap with a cynical attitude about free lunches and a few metal working tools in my shed. But I haven't lost any money and the tools keep on working. That's what we used to call "modelling".  ;)
 

Tim

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41 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I could be wrong but i’m fairly certain its these guys..

http://www.shinedew.com/

 

I am happy to see from their "about us" page that

 

Quote

under the atmosphere of “Progress Together & Share Happiness”, our staff keep a well spirit in working and living.

 

Edited by spikey
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51 minutes ago, Hitchin Junction said:

I must say , I don't understand the obsession with spending a fortune on making moulds for building plastic models of obscure prototypes, when the likely production run is only a few hundred, and the all the fabulous details get knocked off, and the plastic gears all wear out if you actually use the things. And of course, if it's a one-off, crowd funded model, there are no spares or after sales service for fixing any damage. And in 5 years time, new customers are back to the same situation that there are none available.

 

I don't remember Hornby Dublo models only being available as limited run items. And a heck of a lot of them are still going strong, having been passed down through maybe 4 or more generations.

 

But then I'm just an old chap with a cynical attitude about free lunches and a few metal working tools in my shed. But I haven't lost any money and the tools keep on working. That's what we used to call "modelling".  ;)
 

Tim

Outside of the factory, Dave was a one man band. Difficult to see how he could operate with large runs - except when he developed stuff for Kernow, Hattons etc when the retailer did most of the work and bore many of the costs like storage. Losing that business must have been a huge dent in his potential.

 

Also, the number of easy prototypes left that have not been done, other than obscure ones that could only ever justify limited runs, is rapidly diminishing.

Edited by Armchair Modeller
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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

More like inevitable than strange I would have thought.   Company which has been trading for several years resorts to crowdfunding to finance new products - that's a red flag for a start.  Why can't it get or why hasn't it got any reserves of capital?  Once you're on that path it must become a fine balancing act of making the very best use of financial resources and ideally concentrating on what you're doing instead of forever announcing new products - second red flag?   Nobody who is putting money in actually knows where is is going beyond a few platitudes on the 'net, and it's lot of money - yet another red flag?   Past business achievement, what has been made out of what was promised - another red flag.   Dispute, of whatever nature, with a factory losing access to past work and models which might earn some money - big question mark - so yet another red flag.

 

Accounts in a shambles with badly delayed filing and a threatened strike-off; what kind of business is this and how is it run? (by someone who didn't appear to know the difference between HMRC and Companies House) - another red flag.  Shifting terms & conditions on the same project as he is made aware of what he ought to have already known about consumer protection - another red flag.  Receipts which weren't exactly in the correct legal form and seemingly now with lack of clarity about who the money was paid to in some cases - yet another red flag.

 

Then that strangely timed announcement, daft -  and perhaps as 'adb' has identified 'the last poker chip, a desperate threat to other UK companies and not voiced for months after the registrations had been made - another red flag.  Odd that it came so soon after promises made about various models going to tooling 'imminently' and for which some 'licence fees' might well have been extremely useful?  (And would it force 'China's hand' - no way, they're not daft).  

 

And finally what was bound to happen one way or another- the promises had been made about models advancing to tooling and production so no doubt factories were asking for money  upfront.   Inevitably big money, and the cupboard is (as we have now seen) bare.  And maybe the next instalments simply wouldn't cover it?  - looks to me that was going to happen sooner or later but the worst aspect of it is that lots of folk put in their own money before it happened and that money will be lost unless they paid by credit card and can get it back.

 

I call this the battle of Midway senario. Japan engaged in a war whereby its resources to make good any losses was limited - unlike her opponent. It required winning every battle endlessly to have any hope of winning the war. Her losses were not as bad as her opponents in the early days, but a disaster like Midway was going to happen sooner or later as it already had happened to the US. The difference is, the US replaced what it lost with new ships, planes and pilots that were better as they had lessons learned to date. Japan struggled to replace what it lost let alone improve from what it learned. Japan kept holding on, even when stats showed they needed to inflict 10 times the losses on their opponent, and strangely even then they felt they could win, even if the stats showed to date that this figure was never obtained in the conflict so far, and worse still, it was the US that was starting to inflict 10 times the losses against them!

 

The fact that DJ seems to failed to recover investment in the early days - when he had commision work on top of delivering the J94 should have been a sign to himself that maybe there was - to quote Beatty - "something wrong with our bloody ships today".  He could have then either recognised what was wrong and put it right or take action to pull out of the market in good order. But he kept on, adding more to ambitious program he had no hope of completing. Many believed in him (myself included in early days) which probably re-enforced his own beliefs and ended up living a lie.

One thing though, it was he that voluntarily liquidated DJM in just over a month after "the announcement". It is possible after seeing the backlash from that, that he then fully knew without doubt that the war had not developed in Japan's favour and with still much work required on his projects and with no resources to drive them through, that effectively it was game over. To his credit, he did spare crowdfunders further suffering by never asking for second payments. Which he could have done, if only to reduce the liquidators bill. (although there might be legal implications there).

 

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2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I don't think Dave Jones designed anything, he may have acted as an intermediary between KMRC and the factory that actually designed the model but I think all the models which DJ claimed to have designed were designed by Chinese factories (for good or bad) which DJ's role being limited to signing off that he was good with the designs (even that was probably done by KMRC for their commissions).

 

I came to think this some time ago.    It resolved the odd issue of the CAD images being marked with "Free version".   I came to the view that someone else had done the design and he inspected it using a freeware viewer.

Stationmaster's assessment of the red flags is very true, but he misses one red flag out - reading some of the Dapol/Kernow threads and there is a very familiar tale of 'jam tomorrow', little of which ever happened.  Wise after the event perhaps, but certainly a foretaste of what was to come. 

 

I suspect there is still more to come with this as well

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6 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

It resolved the odd issue of the CAD images being marked with "Free version".   I came to the view that someone else had done the design and he inspected it using a freeware viewer.

That really didn't look right to me, either. If he was designing the models in a professional capacity, then even giving a hint that he was using free software didn't look professional. The alternative explanation, of course, is that he was not doing the CAD part of the design (although he may have contributed original research, data/measurements, and oversight).

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Did he ever actually claim to be doing the CADs? I'm sure I remember lots of comments on the 92 thread implying they were being done by others.

 

I am now wondering what he did. Clearly he was a woeful project manager, and many people (myself included) often said something along the lines of "maybe he needs to get someone to help with the project management side of things". But in fact that seems to literally be all that he was...?

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4 hours ago, truffy said:

More in the mould of Gerald Ratner, methinks.

His story might go down well on the comedy circuit. :)

 

He'd cope well with the heckling; he

seems to be good at ignoring people.

 

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3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 Which kind of begs the question of what was happening at Dapol before he left too.

And why was it happening ???

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5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

In that case I might offer a fiver then, . print them on mugs, mouse mats, pretend share certificates, toilet rolls..

 

 

 

How about a range of "I've been shafted by DJM" badges.  Ideal accessory for your next exhibition....

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1 hour ago, njee20 said:

Did he ever actually claim to be doing the CADs? I'm sure I remember lots of comments on the 92 thread implying they were being done by others.

 

I am now wondering what he did. Clearly he was a woeful project manager, and many people (myself included) often said something along the lines of "maybe he needs to get someone to help with the project management side of things". But in fact that seems to literally be all that he was...?

 

At the moment I'm imagining some kind of "What have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch, but in reverse.

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Apart from his apparent lack of experience in business management,  I feel that Dave's biggest problem was his personality and his character.  To me he seemed the big fish in a small pond mentality that found its way into a much bigger pond and found out that he was not the bigshot calling the tune.  I rarely followed his responses on the threads he communicated on when he was "Dapol Dave" (?) but his demeanour seemed to change once he had to account for his own failures after the formation of DJM and received online criticism.   

 

We had a saying at work which stated that a person is usually promoted to one step above his abilities.  Perhaps cocooned in the Dapol environment Dave was not exposed to the real world and when he took the plunge on his own he was hopelessly out of his comfort zone.   I knew one person at work whose ambition was to gain his pilot's licence, however he was always scamming people for money.  I once described him as having his head in the clouds and his hands in everyone else's pockets.  Seems that my description admirably suits some one else.

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5 hours ago, two tone green said:

Is the BBC Rogue Traders program still on the telly? 

 

I took a much bigger case to them. They are completely hopeless. Anything remotely technical or complex is beyond the ability of their researchers - no doubt all recent graduates from Media Studies degrees.

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1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

Apart from his apparent lack of experience in business management,  I feel that Dave's biggest problem was his personality and his character.  To me he seemed the big fish in a small pond mentality that found its way into a much bigger pond and found out that he was not the bigshot calling the tune.  I rarely followed his responses on the threads he communicated on when he was "Dapol Dave" (?) but his demeanour seemed to change once he had to account for his own failures after the formation of DJM and received online criticism.   

 

We had a saying at work which stated that a person is usually promoted to one step above his abilities.  Perhaps cocooned in the Dapol environment Dave was not exposed to the real world and when he took the plunge on his own he was hopelessly out of his comfort zone.   I knew one person at work whose ambition was to gain his pilot's licence, however he was always scamming people for money.  I once described him as having his head in the clouds and his hands in everyone else's pockets.  Seems that my description admirably suits some one else.

 

Sounds like the Peter Principle! - a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". In other words, an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another. 

 

Although in the DJModels scenario, the promotion to a level of incompetence is replaced by an ultimately unsuccessful move into self-employment!

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5 hours ago, Hitchin Junction said:

I must say , I don't understand the obsession with spending a fortune on making moulds for building plastic models of obscure prototypes, when the likely production run is only a few hundred, and the all the fabulous details get knocked off, and the plastic gears all wear out if you actually use the things. And of course, if it's a one-off, crowd funded model, there are no spares or after sales service for fixing any damage. And in 5 years time, new customers are back to the same situation that there are none available.

 

I don't remember Hornby Dublo models only being available as limited run items. And a heck of a lot of them are still going strong, having been passed down through maybe 4 or more generations.

 

But then I'm just an old chap with a cynical attitude about free lunches and a few metal working tools in my shed. But I haven't lost any money and the tools keep on working. That's what we used to call "modelling".  ;)

I'm afraid the market place doesn't agree with you. Fragile plastic models now dominate sales. By all means carry on scratchbuilding in your shed. But you are not seeking to satisfy the market. 

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5 hours ago, Hitchin Junction said:

I must say , I don't understand the obsession with spending a fortune on making moulds for building plastic models of obscure prototypes, when the likely production run is only a few hundred, and the all the fabulous details get knocked off, and the plastic gears all wear out if you actually use the things. And of course, if it's a one-off, crowd funded model, there are no spares or after sales service for fixing any damage. And in 5 years time, new customers are back to the same situation that there are none available.

 

I don't remember Hornby Dublo models only being available as limited run items. And a heck of a lot of them are still going strong, having been passed down through maybe 4 or more generations.

 

But then I'm just an old chap with a cynical attitude about free lunches and a few metal working tools in my shed. But I haven't lost any money and the tools keep on working. That's what we used to call "modelling".  ;)
 

Tim

 

Well, healthy cynicism and decent tools are fine and enduring things that, for the most part, tend to serve us well. On the other hand, the incarnation of Meccano that provided us with Hornby Dublo went bust over fifty years ago..

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25 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I took a much bigger case to them. They are completely hopeless. Anything remotely technical or complex is beyond the ability of their researchers - no doubt all recent graduates from Media Studies degrees.

 

In fairness to DJM, unless proved otherwise, I don't think he is a "Rogue Trader" (in my book they are doing it deliberately in order to scam people).  I just think he was totally out of his depth when it came to running a business.

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15 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

In fairness to DJM, unless proved otherwise, I don't think he is a "Rogue Trader" (in my book they are doing it deliberately in order to scam people).  I just think he was totally out of his depth when it came to running a business.

 

Definition of rogue trader is in the financial markets theres probably a different name that goes with this level of ineptitude.

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25 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Well, healthy cynicism and decent tools are fine and enduring things that, for the most part, tend to serve us well. On the other hand, the incarnation of Meccano that provided us with Hornby Dublo went bust over fifty years ago..

As has DJM and his delicate plastic models.

 

Go figure ?

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