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DJM - Statement of Affairs released

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1 hour ago, Markwj said:

I think you may struggle for Spares though which may be in the back of people's minds when buying. 

 

My own own feeling is that I would never buy a djm branded model or one he is involved with in the future out of principle but of course this does not mean my stance is right and yours is wrong just different.

Just for clarity I will not buy a djm model if I thought he would someday benefit from the purchase and this includes any future venture should any company be daft enough to employ him!

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The skill set which caused many locos to be produced is still there and would be most useful to a future employer. Unfortunately that skill set doesn't include the skills needed to run a company as has been proved.

I have a number of models in my limited collection which I believe DJ had a hand in: Sentinel, Beattie Well Tank and the P Class. They're good models and could make up a useful core of a CV .

 

Regards

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1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

The skill set which caused many locos to be produced is still there and would be most useful to a future employer. Unfortunately that skill set doesn't include the skills needed to run a company as has been proved.

I have a number of models in my limited collection which I believe DJ had a hand in: Sentinel, Beattie Well Tank and the P Class. They're good models and could make up a useful core of a CV .

 

Regards

His behaviour outside of Dapol mirrored some within, like lots of models being promised and not delivered (inc a 92 and a Pendolino).

 

Also remember dodgy circuit boards on 26/27s under his watch.

 

Sorry but my sympathy for him went last summer, unfortunately his his self belief and promotion outweighed his actual skill.

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10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

His behaviour outside of Dapol mirrored some within, like lots of models being promised and not delivered (inc a 92 and a Pendolino).

 

Also remember dodgy circuit boards on 26/27s under his watch.

 

Sorry but my sympathy for him went last summer, unfortunately his his self belief and promotion outweighed his actual skill.

 

I have heard similar.  Rumours were that Dapol chucked the "N" gauge 142 in the bin and started afresh.  And the class 56 was a single body moulding covering all the variants - maybe still is. Tough if you wanted a blue 56 without the "loadhaul" No 2 end modified roof grilles.  Not an "N" modeller myself, but it appears that those who do are offered more fidelity these days.      

 

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8 hours ago, Markwj said:

Just for clarity I will not buy a djm model if I thought he would someday benefit from the purchase and this includes any future venture should any company be daft enough to employ him!

 

If I were a betting man I'd hazard a guess that DJM is off your christmas card list.......:jester:

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, woodenhead said:

His behaviour outside of Dapol mirrored some within, like lots of models being promised and not delivered (inc a 92 and a Pendolino).

 

Also remember dodgy circuit boards on 26/27s under his watch.

 

Sorry but my sympathy for him went last summer, unfortunately his his self belief and promotion outweighed his actual skill.

 

Dodgy circuit boards were a duff component supplied by a subcontractor to the contractor who supplied those boards to the Chinese factory that assembled the models.  That subcontractor will still be supplying components to others making electronic boards.....

 

Exactly the same way that corrupted Mazak was poured by a subcontractor to the contractor who supplied parts to the factory that assembled models for Heljan  and all the others that suffered from Mazak rot.

 

I suspect that DJ had no say in the production of the components for the board whatever.

 

As an aside in the early 1980s I had to do a memory upgrade on our school's BBC computers- no technicians for IT in schools in those days- and found components from TWENTY different countries (and therefore at least twenty different factories) on a motherboard assembled in Dundee.

 

Les

 

Edited by Les1952
speling erras
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21 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

The skill set which caused many locos to be produced is still there and would be most useful to a future employer. Unfortunately that skill set doesn't include the skills needed to run a company as has been proved.

I have a number of models in my limited collection which I believe DJ had a hand in: Sentinel, Beattie Well Tank and the P Class. They're good models and could make up a useful core of a CV .

 

Regards

 

The problem is that anybody can do that nowadays if they have access to funds and a link to the factories. Hattons and Kernow seem to have thrived since taking things in-house, and start ups like Accurascale and Revolution have done fine. I think the only think DJ had was links to the factory as it is clear that he was basically just an intermediary. If he'd done his job well he could still have found a nice niche as regardless of the possibilities of cutting out middle men business is full of examples of successful middle men who add value. In DJ's case the glacial progress of things under his watch when Kernow for example were using him contrasted markedly with the massive acceleration in their projects when they took things in-house indicated that his clients realised pretty quickly that he added no value. 

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21 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

The skill set which caused many locos to be produced is still there and would be most useful to a future employer. Unfortunately that skill set doesn't include the skills needed to run a company as has been proved.

I have a number of models in my limited collection which I believe DJ had a hand in: Sentinel, Beattie Well Tank and the P Class. They're good models and could make up a useful core of a CV .

 

Regards

Two words spring to mind "Damaged Goods".  

 

For sure there were some innovations on his watch at Dapol that were new to British N including NEM pockets, Easi-Shunt couplings, close coupling mechanisms and working signals to name just a few. He did push boundaries and without question this pushed Bachmann to respond. Fundamentally though as others have said his role appears to have been more that of an ideas person and researcher/facilitator than full on designer, with CADS etc being produced in China. 

 

However with the failure of DJM in the manner that it has happened left a lot of individuals out of pocket, and in our close knit world I venture to suggest it would be a brave manufacturer who would provide employment knowing the history. That's not to say it won't happen at some point in the future though, who can tell?

 

Roy

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Yep, he will BS his way in somewhere like the last time he is an expert at it, look how many people fell for it and are out of pocket hope you all get your money back guys.

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Businesses like this usually fail for one reason: lack of cash. This one was doomed from the start because it had no capital. Another recent failure was also due to lack of cash arising from the owner's inability to concentrate on finishing a project and getting the sales revenue in before starting on the next project. 

 

Charles

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I never ordered anything from DJM, but the website is still there, if you miss the home page statement, then it looks as if it may still be trading, mentioning deliveries, etc.

Today I went to order some items from a company I'd used a few years ago, Mega electronics ltd, but every search for their website drew a blank. They went into liquidation back in June, iirc.  Just a different approach, I guess.

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On 23/07/2019 at 08:00, Earl of Pembroke said:

Businesses like this usually fail for one reason: lack of cash. This one was doomed from the start because it had no capital. Another recent failure was also due to lack of cash arising from the owner's inability to concentrate on finishing a project and getting the sales revenue in before starting on the next project. 

 

Charles

Which was that? I can think of one, but that was a North American one so I suspect not the same

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On ‎23‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 09:00, Earl of Pembroke said:

Businesses like this usually fail for one reason: lack of cash. This one was doomed from the start because it had no capital. Another recent failure was also due to lack of cash arising from the owner's inability to concentrate on finishing a project and getting the sales revenue in before starting on the next project. 

 

Charles

 

Ideally, you need cash for at least 2 major projects. Project 1 is going to take the best part of 2 years (at least) from reasearch to having a product that brings money in.

If you await to recover costs (***) before doing the next one, you have basically got long periods (greater than one year) of little or no revenue coming in.

DJM went into this with resources for just one loco (the austerity) but did have commision work to compliment the gaps.

Project 1 dragged on for longer than expected and he lost his commision work (which only happens if companies doubt the value that you bring).

He added the crowdfunding class 71 but some of the model liveries only made it into double figures for orders! A strong hint that this too was a failed exercise.

 

Therefore it should have been clear from his own financial figures after the first couple of years that this was going to fail. He then had basically 2 options:

1/ pull out completely but in an organised way

2/ run the business on a part time basis doing one project at a time (matching his resource limits) over an extended period and have a second job to support his living costs. 

 

(*** - once you have the product at towards the end year 2, you are going to need time to sell it. Now making to pre-orders only = a very small batch and consequantly small revenues and revenue return that it is almost certainly not worth the exercise. Conversely making a bigger batch to sell on after release, brings a bigger return but equally demands more resources as production costs per unit are a big chunck of model cost too AND it takes longer to sell and therefore recover those resources.

So your resource level at the start needs to be capable of coping with at least 2 major products - one starting in year 1, one starting in year 2, with production runs large enough to create worthy returns that allow you to operate all other business costs - your salary included + growth. You might get away with less, but financial planning should assume worst case senarios).

 

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This, basically, is why so many small businesses barely make it beyond one year and so few last longer than five years. 

 

Typically, profits from Project 1 go to fund the groundwork and materials for Project 3 (rather than 2, as it always takes time for the funding to come in).  But if funding from P1 is materially late in coming then P3 simply cannot start, or certainly cannot get very far. Yet wages, rent, loan repayments etc. must be kept up or the business will fail anyway. Sooner or later, many simply run out of cash. 

 

And big big businesses and the Public Sector are among the slowest payers. When I worked in banking it was common for promising new businesses to think they’d “got it made” once they secured a contract with Tesco, or the Local Council. If they’d only realised, their problems were just beginning ...

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The website is no more..

http://djmodels.co.uk

 

I wonder if someone would buy it as a “fan” page.

 

i wonder when we’ll get an updated statement from the liquidators.

 

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16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder if someone would buy it as a “fan” page.

 

Are there any left, I thought even all the fanboys saw the light in the end?

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13 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Are there any left, I thought even all the fanboys saw the light in the end?

 

One might doubt if anyone would want to buy the web site, or the address. In the dark recesses of the web, someone will undoubtedly use the old internet accounts for either causing trouble, or for fraudulent purposes. 

 

Perhaps DJM should be released into the annals of history, once the legalities of such things take their course. I'd think anyone taking up the name for trading purposes will inherit a stigma, even for the most innocent and worthy ventures. 

 

Cheers,

Ian.

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2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 

One might doubt if anyone would want to buy the web site, or the address. In the dark recesses of the web, someone will undoubtedly use the old internet accounts for either causing trouble, or for fraudulent purposes. 

 

Perhaps DJM should be released into the annals of history, once the legalities of such things take their course. I'd think anyone taking up the name for trading purposes will inherit a stigma, even for the most innocent and worthy ventures. 

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Oddly the name had already been used by other companies called DJM which went into liquidation several years before the Dave Jones version of DJM went that way.  So the moral would seem to be  don't use the initials DJM for your company because it has a less than illustrious history.

 

So we have, from what I have found so far -

 

DJM Group - finally dissolved following liquidation, April 2019

DJM Direct.COM - dormant company since being first incorporated

DJM Solicitors - appears to be active

DJM Mechanical, active

DJM Plastering - proposal from Companies House to strike off this company

DJM Sheet Metal - active, reported a profit in 2018

DJ Models Ltd - dissolved 2006

 

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In many of those cases the ‘M’ appears to be part of the founder’s name. So may be less cursed. 
 

It’s interesting that there was a previous ‘DJ Models Ltd’ though. 

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45 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Dave Jones version of DJM went that way

 

There's no truth in the rumour linking the DJM collapse to that of Thomas Cook. :mocking_mini:

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On 14/07/2019 at 00:34, woodenhead said:

His behaviour outside of Dapol mirrored some within, like lots of models being promised and not delivered (inc a 92 and a Pendolino).

 

Also remember dodgy circuit boards on 26/27s under his watch.

 

Sorry but my sympathy for him went last summer, unfortunately his his self belief and promotion outweighed his actual skill.

And what about the Western? Very much a Dave Jones project, and one of the finest OO RTR Diesel models ever.

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31 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

And what about the Western? Very much a Dave Jones project, and one of the finest OO RTR Diesel models ever.

I have three of his steam locos and I am happy with them but it doesn't change how I feel about his behaviour,

 

He had a skill but he oversold himself and look at the mess he has left behind, if it wasn't for Section 75 there would be a lot more people personally out of pocket, as it is the banks have had to bail him out with their own write offs and don't forget those who were suckered by his Paypal move taking away any chance of reimbursement.

 

No, no sympathy for him from me.

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