flyingsignalman Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, melmoth said: The late Terry Gough did a whole series of articles on cutting and shutting to produce various LSWR and LSBCR vehicles, but that was in Railway Modeller IIRC. I had a mental image of a photo of one of Terry Gough's conversions but I couldn't remember who wrote the articles. I started getting the Railway Modeller in late 1974 and I think his articles were appearing irregularly around then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Many thanks for the responses. I'd certainly not seen anything about them being GER prototypes and had always thought they were GWR style ones to go with "Lord of the Isles". Obviously a bit of "creative thinking" by the Hornby catalogue caption writer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted June 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2019 The GWR modelling pages have some interesting projects for the kit-basher. Losing the clerestory roof profile opens up a whole avenue of different ex-company stock. ISTR someone constructing ex-M&SWJR stock from the venerable clerestory. I'd probably have a couple to recreate a typical South Wales secondary service coach rake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Fife Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Good morning all I like the Triang clerestorys as basis for cut and shut projects. Six composites make five 8 compartment coaches. Then modified ends and roofs give a NER rake. Seating strips, flushglazing, new roof ventilators, cast metal bogies, and attention to underframe, give a reasonable result. Now I need to combine brake ends into a NER brake. I also have some rough and ready GNR artics from Howlden originals. These need new roof construction. Malcolm 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2019 They're not composites, though, whatever the 1962 Triang catalogue says. They are all-seconds (downgraded to thirds later), with an even compartment spacing different to the brake 3rd's. For cut and shut projects you really need brake 3rds to make correct length all 3rds, and a 2nd/3rd composite is possible, as is a brake 2nd, but I've no idea if the last two ever existed in reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMS Posted June 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2019 Triang/Hornby old 7 compartment clerestories have different sized compartments to the brake "3rd" - the later's compartments get 5 compartments into the space that the 7 compartment allocates to 4 1/2 approx ; ? different class? The seven compartment compartments are all the same size - so all same class. Based on a direct comparision of the models in front of me 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold A Murphy Posted June 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2019 If you go here: http://www.gwr.org.uk/protriang.html you will find a really useful guide to cutting and shutting relatively accurate 'actual' GWR third (C10) and brake coaches (D37). I have so far done a C10 and I was quite pleased with the results. Best wishes, Alastair M 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 What we really need is decent kits for a C10, D14 and E37. And some Toplights while they are at it.... Hint, hint. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Unfortunately the alleged 'composite' has compartments that are too long for seconds and too short for firsts (ignoring the end compartments which have overlooked that the panels at the coach ends should be only about half the size of those between compartments, Amongst my various carve ups, I have a couple which I pretend are full firsts* - they should larger compartments and the pseudo corridor ends. One is in 1912-22 crimson. The Midland version would be OK for this livery but it has strange heat printed figure 3s on the door, which are hard (impossible?) to remove neatly. These carriages, while far better than nothing, are very 'curate's egg' and long overdue for an upgrade, as are the later corridor clerestories - if they could have raised mouldings in the sixties (and sell for only 9/6d), why not twenty years on? *To be 'cut and shut' to the right length - this year, next year.... Two brake thirds can be cut to make various full thirds (including a ten compartment with an elliptical roof). The brake ends can then to added to another brake/third to make a more prototypical carriage or joined together to make 4 wheel Parcel and Brake vans (on Ratio underframes - these can also to modified...). (I forget the exact details, I was a lot younger when I did them. One day I must build the two 'toplights' I've got sides for! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antony Farrell Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Can the Ratio sides be cut and shut to make longer non-clerestory types as well? I know their was an old Railway Modeller article that mentioned this which I have somewhere but was wondering what diagrams would be possible for bogey stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 26/06/2019 at 21:05, flyingsignalman said: I had a mental image of a photo of one of Terry Gough's conversions but I couldn't remember who wrote the articles. I started getting the Railway Modeller in late 1974 and I think his articles were appearing irregularly around then. A bit earlier than that. The Tri-ang clerestory conversions appeared in the Railway Modeller issues for October 1966, June 1967, February, August and September 1968. He also did an article on turning Farish suburban coaches into LSWR Ironclads. That one is in the August 1967 edition. There are a few gaps I want to fill and I've been picking up donors as and when I spot cheap ones for the last couple of years. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2019 I remember Terry’s inspirational articles well, still have a lot of them. I had a go myself at producing some similar models, but with much less success. Oh well, at least I tried.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 29/06/2019 at 18:09, Il Grifone said: ... if they could have raised mouldings in the sixties (and sell for only 9/6d), why not twenty years on?... Let's face it, forty years were required before the penny really dropped: there's an adult market for our product... Never any doubt that the various incarnations in the Lines-Triang-Hornby evolution had skilled toolmakers available, as a few of the old products reveal. My favourites the Trestrol and Brick wagons, much superior to their 4W wagons of no clear prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: A bit earlier than that. The Tri-ang clerestory conversions appeared in the Railway Modeller issues for October 1966, June 1967, February, August and September 1968. He also did an article on turning Farish suburban coaches into LSWR Ironclads. That one is in the August 1967 edition. There are a few gaps I want to fill and I've been picking up donors as and when I spot cheap ones for the last couple of years. John Even Jim Russell was doing this. See Model Railway Constructor for 1972 September. He also did the same with the Ratio 4 wheelers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 The Special Interests GWR section on here has a number of Triang Clerestory conversions. It's been going on for years! And long may it continue.... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 It took me the best part of 50 years to follow Terry Gough's series of articles in the Railway Modeller to model Irish railway coaches of that era, although these particular coaches were longer (60') and of course wider. To modellers of a certain age, the idea that Hormby might upgrade them to modern standard would be regarded with a little suspicion. Where's the fun if there is nothing left to improve?! Glover 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Let's face it, forty years were required before the penny really dropped: there's an adult market for our product... Never any doubt that the various incarnations in the Lines-Triang-Hornby evolution had skilled toolmakers available, as a few of the old products reveal. My favourites the Trestrol and Brick wagons, much superior to their 4W wagons of no clear prototype. Rovex/Lines were capable of some very good plastic mouldings for their day; the Murgatroyd's bogie sodium chloride tank was another exceptionally good model. They had skilled toolmakers and designers, and the R & D wasn't bad either; if a model could be produced within the limitations of 13" radius curves, and the generic 4w chassis wasn't needed, the results were usually pretty credible. The Brush Type 2 bodyshell is another good'un; remember injection moulding was in it's infancy and Triang were the first in the field with scale length mk1 coaches after the demise of Kitmaster, another very good product for the time. It did, sadly, take far too long for Triang, now Hornby, to properly rid themselves of the train set image, and there are still anomalies from that period in the range, for instance the 16ton mineral on the wrong wheelbase, and the refusal to entirely ditch the incorrect wheelspacing of the Jinty chassis. The Jinty chassis 08 keeps cropping up in train sets; I found this unacceptable when I was 8 years old and it has no excuse to still be in existence nowadays! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I think the 08 is particularly unforgiveable as both Dublo and later Lima managed to produce affordable examples with the necessary outside frames and flycranks. Lots of good (at least for the time) stuff came from Triang, though. The X04, for example, having powered everything from Polly to Pendon ('s locomotives) over the decades, must be recognised as something of a design classic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Johnster said: ... the refusal to entirely ditch the incorrect wheelspacing of the Jinty chassis... A singularly weird 'hangover' from the past. I have a hope that with their Terrier looking like it has done well, there might be a concerted move to make improved jobs of their Jinty and Pannier, correct in principal dimensions, at a similar price point. Even now there are plenty of folk for whom anything but a Hornby is a 'grudge purchase', a better Hornby item at the right price is what is wanted. 1 hour ago, Glover said: ...To modellers of a certain age, the idea that Hornby might upgrade them to modern standard would be regarded with a little suspicion. Where's the fun if there is nothing left to improve?!... Console yourself with the thought that there is a limitless ocean of 'the old', just waiting for your ministrations to scrub them up into something decent? Neat job on the IE carriages, I wouldn't have suspected the 'feedstock'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Glover said: It took me the best part of 50 years to follow Terry Gough's series of articles in the Railway Modeller to model Irish railway coaches of that era, although these particular coaches were longer (60') and of course wider. To modellers of a certain age, the idea that Hormby might upgrade them to modern standard would be regarded with a little suspicion. Where's the fun if there is nothing left to improve?! Glover The way I look at it, if Hornby actually did produce a clerestory to current standards, the old ones would get even cheaper. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Antony Farrell said: Can the Ratio sides be cut and shut to make longer non-clerestory types as well? I know their was an old Railway Modeller article that mentioned this which I have somewhere but was wondering what diagrams would be possible for bogey stock. There was a chap demonstrating exactly this at ExpoEM (Bracknell) two or three years ago, and possibly this year? I asked him whether it was feasible to mix'n'match Ratio and Triang sides; he said no, as the depth of the panelling is far too evidently different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 You can do plenty with the Ratio GWR 4-wheel coaches, including making bogie coaches. The plastic used by Ratio is easier to work with, compared to Hornby. This is an Irish bogie non-corridor brake third and a 6-wheel luggage van, both from the Ratio kits. Cheers, Glover 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: A singularly weird 'hangover' from the past. I have a hope that with their Terrier looking like it has done well, there might be a concerted move to make improved jobs of their Jinty and Pannier, correct in principal dimensions, at a similar price point. Even now there are plenty of folk for whom anything but a Hornby is a 'grudge purchase', a better Hornby item at the right price is what is wanted. Console yourself with the thought that there is a limitless ocean of 'the old', just waiting for your ministrations to scrub them up into something decent? Neat job on the IE carriages, I wouldn't have suspected the 'feedstock'. I’d love to see a 2721 to current RTR standards from redbox, but I reckon the opposition have the drop on them so far as other panniers and the Jinty are concerned! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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