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PTA/JTA/JUA, By Accurascale (NOW WITH ADDED BSC INNERS!)


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8 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

Ok, I've done a bit more research work with the Metro book, some magazine articles, videos and photos.

 

The 'cuts' as mentioned above are correct for Mendip Stone. In a rake of 20 there are usually a 2-3 cuts of wagons. The cuts can be as short as just a single pair of outers but are more usually 8-10 wagons.

 

Regarding the BSC traffic:

On the Ravenscraig flows the wagons were as follows.
101 JU004D (inners)
11 JT004E (outers)
11 JT004F (outers)

 

 

Yes, that makes sense, and the Ravenscraig wagons are the ones that went into the Procor/Yeoman/ARC fleet, which suggests that  about 1 in 6 of the PTA 'stone' fleet is buffer fitted?

 

I hadn't realised that Ravenscraig had shorter sets, I'd believed that they also tended to run 25-30 wagon rakes, which would have predicted (with spares) about 1in12 wagons to have buffers one end, so that two buffered wagons, and 20-something unbuffered would be a normal ratio.

 

Jon

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I'm really impressed with the interaction with us Fran - something which a lot of companies are adopting now. It makes for a trusting bond between manufacturer and buyer, and also cracking models. People don't mind paying good money for great models, but you've even kept the prices down too! :good:

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With regard to the couplings...

 

The Bachmann BRA had both knuckle couplers on the bufferbeams and NEM pockets on the bogies.  Perhaps this same approach should be given to this wagon?

My concern with mounting the knuckles on the beam is twofold

 

1.  Will they cope with Trainset curves (R2/R3)?  the NEM pockets are clearly close-coupling mechanisms, designed for sharp curves.   Will the beam mounted knuckles result in either a) an unrealistically large gap between wagons, or b) a rake that derails on curves?

2. From a tooling and manufacturing process, would it be simpler to keep to a standard underframe design in respect to the couplings?

 

Provision of mounting points in the beam and on NEM pockets gives the user flexibility, and the pockets can always be removed if the user is really offended by them!    But if the rakes derail, and there is no alternative means of coupling that prevents derailment,  you could face a lot of returned models and complaints.

Edited by Trains4U
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1 hour ago, scoobyra said:

I'm really impressed with the interaction with us Fran - something which a lot of companies are adopting now. It makes for a trusting bond between manufacturer and buyer, and also cracking models. People don't mind paying good money for great models, but you've even kept the prices down too! :good:

 

Thanks for the kind words @scoobyra, we think it's important to interact with customers and the wider market, especially as we are a relatively new company in the British market (16 months and counting!) so it's important in our view to show visibility and keep you all up to date. My interactions have been a bit more patch this week as I'm currently on holiday but @McC has been keeping you up to date too while I enjoy the sun in Northern Ireland (I can scarcely believe it either!) and struggle for signal in these rural parts! 

 

We are glad you can see our strategy too, we are working hard to keep the prices as reasonable as possible for top quality models. It's tough, but so far I think we have done very well. It's heartening to see feedback like this. Cheers!

 

25 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

With regard to the couplings...

 

The Bachmann BRA had both knuckle couplers on the bufferbeams and NEM pockets on the bogies.  Perhaps this same approach should be given to this wagon?

My concern with mounting the knuckles on the beam is twofold

 

1.  Will they cope with Trainset curves (R2/R3)?  the NEM pockets are clearly close-coupling mechanisms, designed for sharp curves.   Will the beam mounted knuckles result in either a) an unrealistically large gap between wagons, or b) a rake that derails on curves?

2. From a tooling and manufacturing process, would it be simpler to keep to a standard underframe design in respect to the couplings?

 

Provision of mounting points in the beam and on NEM pockets gives the user flexibility, and the pockets can always be removed if the user is really offended by them!    But if the rakes derail, and there is no alternative means of coupling that prevents derailment,  you could face a lot of returned models and complaints.

 

Good points Gareth and something we discussed last night, but we're confident we can make them work and cater for R2 curves, so we should be okay! My fear is someone will buy an outer pack, go to hook it up to his triang dock shunter and bemoan the height and coupling not being compatible and call us every name under the sun in Facebook groups! (trust me, they do exist and it does happen!)  

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

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4 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

Yes, that makes sense, and the Ravenscraig wagons are the ones that went into the Procor/Yeoman/ARC fleet, which suggests that  about 1 in 6 of the PTA 'stone' fleet is buffer fitted?

 

I hadn't realised that Ravenscraig had shorter sets, I'd believed that they also tended to run 25-30 wagon rakes, which would have predicted (with spares) about 1in12 wagons to have buffers one end, so that two buffered wagons, and 20-something unbuffered would be a normal ratio.

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon,

 

It is our understanding that the Consett wagons formed the basis of the ARC/Yeoman fleet rather than the Ravenscraig ones. 

 

/Pendant Mode Off*

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

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7 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Jon,

 

It is our understanding that the Consett wagons formed the basis of the ARC/Yeoman fleet rather than the Ravenscraig ones. 

 

/Pendant Mode Off*

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

 

Yes, that’s my understanding too Fran. These were also very short rakes given the number of outers that made it into the mendip fleet.

 

That then suggests that it was the Ravenscraig wagons that donated their underframes to became JSAs when Ravenscraig closed in 1992.

 

Guy

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The original JSA project (with the steel hoods) was managed from Llanwern with Marcroft Engineering at Stoke carrying out the conversions. I cannot at this juncture confirm the original operating base for the wagons as tipplers but a bit of digging around might throw up something. I have a photo of me somewhere presenting a large scale model (made by Appleby Enginering) to the Director at Llanwern.

 

Edit: The source was indeed the original Ravenscraig wagons in the BSRV26xxx series.

Edited by Mike Harvey
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1 hour ago, Mike Harvey said:

The original JSA project (with the steel hoods) was managed from Llanwern with Marcroft Engineering at Stoke carrying out the conversions. I cannot at this juncture confirm the original operating base for the wagons as tipplers but a bit of digging around might throw up something. I have a photo of me somewhere presenting a large scale model (made by Appleby Enginering) to the Director at Llanwern.

 

Edit: The source was indeed the original Ravenscraig wagons in the BSRV26xxx series.

 

Hi Mike,

 

I believe some of the South Wales as well as Ravenscraig PTA fleets were recycled as JSAs?

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

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4 hours ago, Trains4U said:

With regard to the couplings...

 

The Bachmann BRA had both knuckle couplers on the bufferbeams and NEM pockets on the bogies.  Perhaps this same approach should be given to this wagon?

My concern with mounting the knuckles on the beam is twofold

 

1.  Will they cope with Trainset curves (R2/R3)?  the NEM pockets are clearly close-coupling mechanisms, designed for sharp curves.   Will the beam mounted knuckles result in either a) an unrealistically large gap between wagons, or b) a rake that derails on curves?

2. From a tooling and manufacturing process, would it be simpler to keep to a standard underframe design in respect to the couplings?

 

Provision of mounting points in the beam and on NEM pockets gives the user flexibility, and the pockets can always be removed if the user is really offended by them!    But if the rakes derail, and there is no alternative means of coupling that prevents derailment,  you could face a lot of returned models and complaints.

 

Wagon mounted knuckle couplings on wagons without buffers (Dapol MRA, Bachmann MBA) have no problem negotiating tight curves with a decent distance between the wagons, it's when buffers are involved that problems begin, so provided there is enough swing in the coupling these will be fine.

Have fitted Kadees to my 10 Dapol MRAs and they run really well as a set.

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27 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said:

 

Wagon mounted knuckle couplings on wagons without buffers (Dapol MRA, Bachmann MBA) have no problem negotiating tight curves with a decent distance between the wagons, it's when buffers are involved that problems begin, so provided there is enough swing in the coupling these will be fine.

Have fitted Kadees to my 10 Dapol MRAs and they run really well as a set.

 

Yes, this is my experience too.

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6 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Mike,

 

I believe some of the South Wales as well as Ravenscraig PTA fleets were recycled as JSAs?

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

 

The initial batch with steel hoods certainly included originally Ravenscraig tipplers, and may have included South Wales stock. When the steel plate hoods were replaced with lighter weight alloy ones is outside my personal involvement, but it is possible that there were some additions also when this programme was underway.  The Rolling Stock Library records should show original numbers as well as new numbers. Either way I'd be in for some N gauge tipplers for the Mendip operations at Whatley and Merehead. Now who could possibly be enticed to make them?

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8 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Jon,

 

It is our understanding that the Consett wagons formed the basis of the ARC/Yeoman fleet rather than the Ravenscraig ones. 

 

/Pendant Mode Off*

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

 

opps, my mistake!

 

Jon

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Lovely work!

 

Just a heads up regarding discounts for buying two packs or more of the PTAs. Please enter the voucher code "PTA-Bundle" in the box at check out to get 10% off two packs or more. Those who havent we will refund the difference when the accountant gets back off holiday!

 

Thank you to everyone who has lobbied for the additional inner packs too. We will have news on this in the next week or so!

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

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4 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Thank you to everyone who has lobbied for the additional inner packs too. We will have news on this in the next week or so!

 

 

Great news Fran! I'll wait until next week for that news to place an order - saves trying to mess around with an existing order to add the bundle deal on

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4 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Lovely work!

 

Just a heads up regarding discounts for buying two packs or more of the PTAs. Please enter the voucher code "PTA-Bundle" in the box at check out to get 10% off two packs or more. Those who havent we will refund the difference when the accountant gets back off holiday!

 

Thank you to everyone who has lobbied for the additional inner packs too. We will have news on this in the next week or so!

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

So would it be worth us holding fire on ordering until the announcement is made so we can get the discount on all wagons when ordering rather than order 2 sets now (and get the discount) and then order the other set of inners when they are announced and not get the discount or you having to 'match up' orders to manually apply the discount on the additional sets?

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Just now, GordonC said:

 

Great news Fran! I'll wait until next week for that news to place an order - saves trying to mess around with an existing order to add the bundle deal on

 

Thanks Gordon! Wise decision, as changing round orders is a bit of a faff! If anyone is waiting for similar I would suggest holding off on ordering till we put something in place!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

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1 minute ago, royaloak said:

So would it be worth us holding fire on ordering until the announcement is made so we can get the discount on all wagons when ordering rather than order 2 sets now (and get the discount) and then order the other set of inners when they are announced and not get the discount or you having to 'match up' orders to manually apply the discount on the additional sets?

 

Correct! :)

 

Cheers,

 

Fran

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4 hours ago, Welsh Signaller said:

I just want to check, payment it taken once the models are ready to deliver not upon ordering?

 

The Mrs is going to go spare if £700 came out next week lol 

 

Hi Welsh Signaller,

 

That is correct, but if you are placing a large order and want to pay it off in stages email us first and we can set that up for you. 

 

3 hours ago, Welsh Signaller said:

I’ve just been doing some calculations before I order next week, 25 wagons will cost £26 per wagon ! 

 

That’s quite extraordinary considering the models are bespoke to a degree, can you even buy a bogie wagon for less than £30 least days ?!   

 

We believe in high detail at very reasonable cost! We like to keep cost respectable (though often get dismissed as 'too expensive' in the arena of Facebook groups! Oh well!)

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

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My old man was a shunter at Llanwern when the ore ran in there, before the heavy end was closed - he said the whole wagon was literally rolled upside down to unload each wagon?

 

It would be interesting to see this in action, does anyone have any pictures or videos perhaps ?  

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