PTA/JTA/JUA, By Accurascale (NOW WITH ADDED BSC INNERS!)

[Welsh Signaller]

He reckons they weren’t even uncoupled, the rotary coupler allowing them to turn 360 ! 

[BR Blue]

Thats right. They were not uncoupled.

[TravisM]

I seem to remember that the rotary coupler end was painted red or orange to indicate to staff to couple the train correctly.

[bazjones1711]

Pic from an old wagon book 

[meld]

On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 12:48, hmrspaul said:

 

PTA/JTA+JUA Bogie Tippler Pack - VTG Grey ACC2114VTG

I haven’t recorded these.

 

 

 

Mostly VTG Grey, and from when they returned from overhaul and painting into VTG Grey. Some later in service shots giving an idea as to how the Gloss livery Matted down as well ...

 

HTH

 

MC

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by meld

[bazjones1711]

[bazjones1711]

Llanwern tippler

[lyneux]

If you want to see video, Railfreight Today has good footage of the Ravenscraig operations.

Edited July 1, 2019 by lyneux

[Marcoblanco]

Hey what's that book please? 

[dogbox321]

27 minutes ago, bazjones1711 said:

 

So when unloading, what happened to the air pipes to stop them getting twisted  - I am expecting they didn't do a full 360, and that the pipes long enough to allow say a 180 degree turn and then back again. 

 

Not expecting the models to allow this feature! (Although thinking about it, technically with the correct arrangement within the coupling design, it probably would be viable to engineer a relatively simple and robust mechanism, to permit it on at least the inner wagons, especially if the wagons were pretty heavy).

 

Regards,

 

C. 

 

[Accurascale Fran]

14 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

So when unloading, what happened to the air pipes to stop them getting twisted  - I am expecting they didn't do a full 360, and that the pipes long enough to allow say a 180 degree turn and then back again. 

 

Not expecting the models to allow this feature! (Although thinking about it, technically with the correct arrangement within the coupling design, it probably would be viable to engineer a relatively simple and robust mechanism, to permit it on at least the inner wagons, especially if the wagons were pretty heavy).

 

Regards,

 

C. 

 

 

I will let you guys into a bit of an Accurascale 'behind the scenes' secret. We did come up with an idea of a rotating coupling for PTAs and even went ahead and 3D printed it, but it was a step too far for the factory when it came to reliable functionality and intricacy. We're still going to work away on it behind the scenes and may offer it as a separate item in the future if we can iron all the bugs out and make it simpler to assemble and engineer in enough reliability. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[dj_crisp]

That's pretty cool.

 

But tbh I wouldn't ever use a rotating coupling and will be very happy with "just" prototype height couplers on the inners

 

Somewhere to fit a body mounted kadee on the outers and I'm even happier

 

Looks a great project!!

 

Will

[lyneux]

Fran, those look very neat indeed and seem to address the need to swing as well as rotate without being either fragile or 'sloppy'.

 

The sergeant rotary coupling could also be an option:

http://www.sergentengineering.com/Rotary_frame.htm

 

It doesn't swing though... thus limiting it's use to layouts without tight curves.

 

Guy

 

 

[GordonC]

ok, I'll as the stupid question ... why did these wagons have rotary couplers anyway if each wagon was unloaded individually like in the picture above? Or was the unloading at Llanwern different to other sites like Ravenscraig?

 

Would it not have been quite a lengthy process uncoupling each, moving it along, unloading, moving on to the next wagon for the 20-30 wagon rakes?

[johndon]

2 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

 

Would it not have been quite a lengthy process uncoupling each, moving it along, unloading, moving on to the next wagon for the 20-30 wagon rakes?

 

Not sure how they did it elsewhere but, at the unloading facility at Consett steelworks, the wagons remained coupled while being tipped...

 

John

 

[royaloak]

40 minutes ago, GordonC said:

ok, I'll as the stupid question ... why did these wagons have rotary couplers anyway if each wagon was unloaded individually like in the picture above? Or was the unloading at Llanwern different to other sites like Ravenscraig?

 

Would it not have been quite a lengthy process uncoupling each, moving it along, unloading, moving on to the next wagon for the 20-30 wagon rakes?

That is simply done for the photograph (it would be a crap photo with all the other wagons in the way), in normal practice the wagons remained coupled during the unloading process.

[NIRCLASS80]

I know this isn’t a British example but if you watch this video from about 5minutes it gives a clear indication of how a car is rotary dumped. 

 

 

[Welsh Signaller]

I recall when the South Wales ore came off at Cardiff, the other rake was stabled in my old mans yard (East Usk) for a few days, he managed to collect a sample of ore from the wagons, I remember the pelts being small balls brown in colour.

 

The wagons seemed only half loaded as I understand it’s very heavy stuff.

 

Anyone recall how much they weighted loaded roughly, 2000t ish if not more ?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Welsh Signaller

[BR Blue]

I read somewhere that they were only 25% full due to the weight but looking at photos it does seems to be closer to 50%.

 

Just to clarify I was referring to the Llanwern Port Talbot when I mentioned looking at photos. It makes sense now that I think of it. that ore density, as mentioned in subsequent posts below, will vary.

Edited July 3, 2019 by BR Blue
Clarification

[Fat Controller]

Just now, BR Blue said:

I read somewhere that they were only 25% full due to the weight but looking at photos it does seems to be closer to 50%.

It varied according to the density of the ore; the contrast between these wagons, and those used to carry domestically-quarried ore from the East Midlands to Corby is remarkable; the latter heaped well above the top of the sides. Have a look at David F' s photos on here:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/sets/72157626169910951/

I saw a photo (I think it was in the first volume of 'The 4mm Wagon') taken from a high view-point, of wagons being loaded with imported ore at Immingham during the 1950s. The wagons are a real mixture of purpose-built ones, and 'ordinary' 12/16t minerals. The non-specialist wagons looked as though someone hadn't cleaned the old load out, there was so little (in terms of volume) of the high-density ore in them.

[Ryde-on-time]

12 hours ago, Welsh Signaller said:

I recall when the South Wales ore came off at Cardiff, the other rake was stabled in my old mans yard (East Usk) for a few days, he managed to collect a sample of ore from the wagons, I remember the pelts being small balls brown in colour.

 

The wagons seemed only half loaded as I understand it’s very heavy stuff.

 

Anyone recall how much they weighted loaded roughly, 2000t ish if not more ?

I thought the 30 wagon Llanwern trains were approx. 3000 tons (100 tons per loaded wagon)?

[LaGrange]

14 hours ago, GordonC said:

ok, I'll as the stupid question ... why did these wagons have rotary couplers anyway if each wagon was unloaded individually like in the picture above? Or was the unloading at Llanwern different to other sites like Ravenscraig?

 

Would it not have been quite a lengthy process uncoupling each, moving it along, unloading, moving on to the next wagon for the 20-30 wagon rakes?

 

Its either a posed photo or its the last wagon of the rake as it has buffers. Same as MGR coal train unloading except the train would stop to allow the wagon to be rotated,and pull forward for the next one until all wagons were emptied. The rotating couplings allowed quick unloading onto a massive conveyor belt

[Growling]

Hi Fran,

 

Super news on the PTA and I echo the comments on here about the black and orange inner rakes. I think they are a must to model the Ravenscraig circuit which as per the videos shared was a 20 or 21 rake (with only 1 grey outer, 1 grey and orange outer and the rest inners).

 

It's an iconic train and as you guys are filling a massive gap in the market with producing a great prototype wagon the I think you will find the demand is generally to make the prototype rake. 

I would certainly snap your hand off for 3 additional inner packs if they were on the table.

 

Thanks,

Rich.  

[25901]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Being a Consett lad the issue of how the waggons were filled is as to where the ore came from as the density of it is different.As a kid i remember some were full and others were no where near full but just as heavy.My brother was on the ore carrying ships and some were brim full to the top and other times the ship was at her draft and the hold looked empty.

 

Ore ships (if not all ships) work to the "Plimsoll Line" regarding max loading which can be effected by the time of years and sea water temp (useless fact of the day)

[daz9284]

3 hours ago, 25901 said:

 

Ore ships (if not all ships) work to the "Plimsoll Line" regarding max loading which can be effected by the time of years and sea water temp (useless fact of the day)

and not forgetting the salt water density.