Holmesfeldian Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Can anyone correctly identify these 2 coach types (on a Derby to Wirksworth service just before it was withdrawn) and if they exist in RTR, please? Thanks in advance 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 It looks like a D1735 Brake Third and a D1921 Composite. Possibly Pull/Push fitted although I don't think the locomotive is fitted. Date approximately 1947 to 1948. Possibly pre August as it seems to have been at Hellifield after then. http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=114595&loco=1205 Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2019 The D1921 composite is available RTR in 4 mm/ft scale from Hornby, R4656 &c. The D1735 brake third is a Period 1 fully-panelled vehicle but in terms of overall dimensions and internal layout is similar to the D1907 brake third from Hornby, R4677. However, if you really wanted to reproduce the D1735 vehicle, the appropriate Comet/Wizard sides, code M25, on a Dapol/ex-Airfix Period 2 lavatory brake third would be a better starting-point, as the period 2 vehicle has the same wood-and-canvas roof with long rainstrips as the period 1 vehicle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Possibly Pull/Push fitted although I don't think the locomotive is fitted. There were no driving trailers converted from period 1 brake thirds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: It looks like a D1735 Brake Third and a D1921 Composite. The brake third is Period 1 so surely it's a Dia 1703? Ray. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 29, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2019 19 hours ago, Marshall5 said: The brake third is Period 1 so surely it's a Dia 1703? Ray. Yes, It's definitely Period 1 - I misread the table in LMS Coaches; away from my copy at the moment. The Comet sides are M13. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I've got a set of Comet 7 etches for a D1703 in the 'to do' pile.....must get myself geared up to doing something with them! Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1001 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 27/06/2019 at 14:03, Steamport Southport said: It looks like a D1735 Brake Third and a D1921 Composite. Possibly Pull/Push fitted although I don't think the locomotive is fitted. Date approximately 1947 to 1948. Possibly pre August as it seems to have been at Hellifield after then. http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=114595&loco=1205 Jason I've updated details for the early 2MT's - 1205 was new to Derby shed week ending 21/12/1946. There is a discrepancy on the database - not sure if it went to Derby (17A) or Bank Hall (27A) w/e 31/12/1960. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 41205 was allocated to 27A Bank Hall by w/e 4th Nov 1961 if that's any help. Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 29, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2019 I've just looked again at the photo and noticed the back-to-back signal, so realised this is Idridgehay. How about a sequence of Midland / LMS / BR LMR motor trains down the years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 27/06/2019 at 13:17, Holmesfeldian said: Can anyone correctly identify these 2 coach types (on a Derby to Wirksworth service just before it was withdrawn) and if they exist in RTR, please? According to the list of P&P coaches in Jenkinson & Essery's LMS Coach volume 3, no D.1703 coaches were converted to Driving Trailers, though the notes in the summary table suggest that 20299 became the Morecambe - Heysham driving trailer in 1950. However, two D.1771, 54ft brake thirds, were converted in 1927. I suspect this coach is one of these. There are no RTR period 1 non-corridor coaches, and I don't think anyone does any of the 54' stock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1001 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Marshall5 said: 41205 was allocated to 27A Bank Hall by w/e 4th Nov 1961 if that's any help. Ray. Thanks - I'll change the database accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Sorry, I was looking at it as being a Period II D1735. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, billbedford said: According to the list of P&P coaches in Jenkinson & Essery's LMS Coach volume 3, no D.1703 coaches were converted to Driving Trailers, though the notes in the summary table suggest that 20299 became the Morecambe - Heysham driving trailer in 1950. However, two D.1771, 54ft brake thirds, were converted in 1927. I suspect this coach is one of these. I only have the one-volume first edition of LMS Coaches but this does have a photo of a D1771 54ft brake third, plate 30b. From this it is apparent the the OP's photo does not show one of these but definitely a D1703 57ft brake third, as the positions of the double doors and brake compartment window are swapped between the two diagrams, i.e. D1771 has 3rd compt/panel/window/panel/luggage doors/3 panels/guard's door/ducket// whereas D1703 has 3rd compt/3 panels/luggage doors/2 panels/window/2 panels/guard's door/ducket//. So I think we have to conclude that this is not a motor train. Anyway nobody's said the engine is motor-fitted - which is the sort of thing that is well-documented - though if it is, the vacuum-controlled valve on the side of the smokebox would be hidden by the tank at this angle.. I hope Holmsfeldian will be dropping by to thank us all for our erudition! Edited June 30, 2019 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Corse, it's not motor fitted - it has a lookout 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 27/06/2019 at 14:03, Steamport Southport said: It looks like a D1735 Brake Third and a D1921 Composite. Possibly Pull/Push fitted although I don't think the locomotive is fitted. Date approximately 1947 to 1948. Possibly pre August as it seems to have been at Hellifield after then. http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=114595&loco=1205 Jason I did say this. But I was assuming it was Motor fitted due to the van part being at the end. It should be in the middle. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, billbedford said: Corse, it's not motor fitted - it has a lookout That doesn't rule it out, see LMS journal no. 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now