Hornby 4 wheel coach

[cactustrain]

This is the Hornby model of a four wheel coach. I have a few questions about it:

 

- Is it based on any prototype?

- Can it be made into a decent model? - have you any examples?

- What milage is there in running a set of these on an industrial layout?

- Are there any alternatives?

 

Many thanks in anticipation of your replies.

[HonestTom]

I made a video covering these coaches here, if that would be of interest. In answer to your questions:

 

- No known prototype. I have heard it suggested that it was based on a Somerset and Dorset coach, but it's basically a freelance carriage designed to fit on the old Triang brake van chassis.

- There are some simple improvements (my video gives some suggestions). One is that you can replace the chassis - the Hornby track cleaning coach rides lower and has a little more detail. I've also heard you can use the Dapol brake van kit chassis. The incline of the roof is a bit steep, so you may want to file the ends down and replace the roof. The underframe could do with detailing up.

- On an industrial layout, you could probably get away with it, with the caveat that there is no brake coach.

- There are lots of kits you could use. Other alternatives are the Triang Rocket coach (which goes for big bucks) or, in the Bachmann Thomas range, the Red Coaches, Emily's Coaches or Henrietta. A popular kit is the Ratio GWR 4-wheeler.

[Ruston]

I doubt that it's a specific prototype and if it is then it's so crude that it may as well be anything. It could make a decent model with a new underframe and some detailing, such as sanding off the moulded handrails at the end and replacing them with wire, and making some steps from plasticard.

 

I was going to have go at one myself but when you see them on their own it's difficult to tell how tall and wide the bodies are and how they will sit on a new frame. As they are they are very tall.

[Phil Parker]

In the February 2017 issue of BRM, I converted a couple of these into a grounded body.

 

 

[flyingsignalman]

Here's my attempt at lengthening a Hornby coach. It is 2nd from the left and is mounted on its (cut in half and with added bits from another) chassis. I trimmed about  1mm strip from the top of the sides which can be seen on an unaltered coach and seems unnecessary to me. I originally used the roof from the coach and lengthened it with a piece from the leftovers from the conversion but it seemed too high.

I lost interest in it after I discovered it was similar in length to a Ratio kit but eventually carried on with it. I replaced the roof with one from Ratio that I had spare after creating the coach on the left from various pieces of Ratio coach sides but it is a little too high still.

The left hand coach is a representation of one that ran on the Wirral Railway, bought from the Mersey Railway and in my world ( the one with the pink sky.....) was then sold on to my light railway by the LMSR, hence the green livery! 

The 2 right hand coaches are Ratio kits.

The inspiration for this last coach was an article by Nigel Digby (?) on the Wirral Railway Livery, one of many he did for BRM, shown in the second photo.

The final photo shows the bits left over.

 

[PatB]

I suspect that the S&DJR theory stems from these coaches first being released in pseudo S&DJR blue, along with an equally fictional blue Nellie. At least that's the first colour scheme I remember seeing them in. IMHO they're possibly the least convincing 4-wheel coaches ever, apart from possibly Hornby 0 gauge tinplate Pullmans ;-). They're just too short and too high. I have to confess that some of the cut and shuts based on them have been rather good though. Phil's and Flyingsignalman's efforts are excellent, for example.

[Neil]

The SDJR theory stems from these carriages being based on SDJR carriages.

 

 

OK they're not brilliant but they are based on them.

[Poor Old Bruce]

18 hours ago, Ruston said:

I doubt that it's a specific prototype and if it is then it's so crude that it may as well be anything. It could make a decent model with a new underframe and some detailing, such as sanding off the moulded handrails at the end and replacing them with wire, and making some steps from plasticard.

 

I was going to have go at one myself but when you see them on their own it's difficult to tell how tall and wide the bodies are and how they will sit on a new frame. As they are they are very tall.

 

As Honest Tom says, use a chassis from a track cleaning coach. It has the correct buffer height. Goodness knows why Hornby still use

the old underframe in this day and age.

 

If you look at the body, you will see that the top 1mm or so above the paneling is set back. Take a craft knife (I use a 10A scalpel) and score along the line until that top bit comes off. Carve the roof profile to something with a much shallower radius and fit a new roof made from plastic card and formed in boiling water, I have an old 'Smash' tin to mark out the roof radius and then form the plastic card. Windows are the originals chopped into pieces and glued back in. For a brake end, paint the compartment windows in body colour and leave the door window clear. Add roof detail to suit. There are some pics somewhere on a previous incarnation of RMWeb.

[Neil]

Following on here's what I've done with one of these Hornby carriages.

 

 

It's totally freelance, so no finescale brownie points to be had but I rather like it. It runs on a cut and shut HO Playcraft brake van chassis which brings the buffers to the correct height.

[Ruston]

16 minutes ago, Neil said:

Following on here's what I've done with one of these Hornby carriages.

 

 

It's totally freelance, so no finescale brownie points to be had but I rather like it. It runs on a cut and shut HO Playcraft brake van chassis which brings the buffers to the correct height.

What's the coach on the right, Neil?

[5050]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

What's the coach on the right, Neil?

Triang Rocket?  I've got a couple of them still in boxes but I'm very wary of 'bashing' them in case I destroy the basis of my kids' inheritance.

[Caledonian]

On 03/07/2019 at 11:02, cactustrain said:

This is the Hornby model of a four wheel coach. I have a few questions about it:

 

- Is it based on any prototype?

- Can it be made into a decent model? - have you any examples?

- What milage is there in running a set of these on an industrial layout?

- Are there any alternatives?

 

Many thanks in anticipation of your replies.

 

The easiest alternative, if you want to make up a paddy train, is not to bother with these but get some ordinary goods vans, add steps under the doors on one side and if you're really ambitious open the doors, and put in a floor, some benches and miners inside.

 

I have a lovely photie somewhere of 7755 flogging along with four ex-GWR vans and something different hung on the back. There also looks as though there might be a window [domestic frame] cut into the side at the back - no expense spared.  

Edited July 4, 2019 by Caledonian

[Neil]

5 hours ago, Ruston said:

What's the coach on the right, Neil?

 

It's  a Triang Rocket copy from the Great British Locos part-work. I had to arrange inside bearings for the wheel sets as the chassis it came with was a one piece solid moulding.

[Poor Old Bruce]

18 hours ago, Neil said:

Following on here's what I've done with one of these Hornby carriages.

 

 

It's totally freelance, so no finescale brownie points to be had but I rather like it. It runs on a cut and shut HO Playcraft brake van chassis which brings the buffers to the correct height.

 

With double doors both ends (and a flatter roof) that could pass muster as a Corpse Van. Must keep vigilant for a Playcraft Brake Van.

[Mark Saunders]

How about this GWR bullion van!

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

17 hours ago, Caledonian said:

 

The easiest alternative, if you want to make up a paddy train, is not to bother with these but get some ordinary goods vans, add steps under the doors on one side and if you're really ambitious open the doors, and put in a floor, some benches and miners inside.

 

I have a lovely photie somewhere of 7755 flogging along with four ex-GWR vans and something different hung on the back. There also looks as though there might be a window [domestic frame] cut into the side at the back - no expense spared.  

 

If it's the photograph I'm thinking of it's 7754 at Talywain.

 

Here it is in a previous thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118603-ncb-coach-livery/

 

 

 

Jason

Edited July 5, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Neil]

This interest in the Hornby  4 wheel carriage, which even fans like me would admit needs work to make something out of, prompts the thought that in the crowded rtr marketplace, with manufacturers struggling not to duplicate each others models, the one decent item missing from all ranges is a good four wheel carriage.

[Ravenser]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

This interest in the Hornby  4 wheel carriage, which even fans like me would admit needs work to make something out of, prompts the thought that in the crowded rtr marketplace, with manufacturers struggling not to duplicate each others models, the one decent item missing from all ranges is a good four wheel carriage.

 

 

Could something be done with a decent 3D print to fit a suitable NPCS chassis ? (I think the IoWSR  has mounted a lot of bodies on ex PMV chassis)

[Neil]

17 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

Could something be done with a decent 3D print to fit a suitable NPCS chassis ? (I think the IoWSR  has mounted a lot of bodies on ex PMV chassis)

 

I think that would be possible but 3D prints aren't as easy to hack about into other variants as injection moulded plastic.

 

[PatB]

On 04/07/2019 at 13:59, Neil said:

The SDJR theory stems from these carriages being based on SDJR carriages.

 

 

OK they're not brilliant but they are based on them.

Hmmm.......er.....OK. Although I think it might be easier to saw a bit off the ubiquitous Ratio 4-wheeler to get something closer to the prototype than do the necessary work on the Hornby effort.

[HonestTom]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

This interest in the Hornby  4 wheel carriage, which even fans like me would admit needs work to make something out of, prompts the thought that in the crowded rtr marketplace, with manufacturers struggling not to duplicate each others models, the one decent item missing from all ranges is a good four wheel carriage.

 

I guess the difficulty is the question of which prototype to go with. With so many different companies and so many different carriages, which do you choose? The possibility that sprung to mind for me was the North London Railway's coaches, which got sold on to various different companies. How about a set in KESR livery packaged with a Terrier?

 

All this being said, I'd be interested to see how the new Rails/Dapol van impacts on the industry. If it's a success, I could see a lot of pre-grouping rolling stock becoming more viable.

[Caledonian]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

If it's the photograph I'm thinking of it's 7754 at Talywain.

 

Here it is in a previous thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118603-ncb-coach-livery/

 

 

 

Jason

 

Thats the one. Now that's a proper paddy train

[cactustrain]

Thank you for all your replies to this topic, they have been most helpful, but if I could impose upon you one more time please.

 

The model comes with approx 12mm diameter wheels, but I note that many coaches run on approx 14mm wheels. Which would be more appropriate for a 4 wheel coach?

 

As usual, thank you in advance for your help.

[Poor Old Bruce]

20 hours ago, cactustrain said:

The model comes with approx 12mm diameter wheels, but I note that many coaches run on approx 14mm wheels. Which would be more appropriate for a 4 wheel coach?

 

14mm, scale 3ft 6in. As the coach is fictional and the 00 track gauge is narrow, stick to 12mm and a track-cleaner chassis to get the correct buffer height.