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Very sad news, thoughts are with the family and friends of those involved. As you say phil-b259 the track is an incredibly dangerous place, even for people trained and authorised to be there.

 

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There but for the grace of God.

 

I should think that anyone who has worked on the track for any length of time will have had things happen that could have gone badly for them.

 

Even now years into retirement it still makes me go cold, reading about this.

 

Sympathy to family, friends and the driver.

 

 

 

 

 

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Deeply saddend as a fellow rail worker! It certainly does make you go cold, we're on shift today and there is that awful atmosphere which anyone that works in a close knit industry/sector will know the feeling!

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When I was a p/way engineer I was always told that I needed to concentrate on the railway, even if it meant any survey took longer. Even now I get twitchy in the 4 foot and particularlt the 6 foot even on a completely closed line.

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7 minutes ago, Bomag said:

When I was a p/way engineer I was always told that I needed to concentrate on the railway, even if it meant any survey took longer. Even now I get twitchy in the 4 foot and particularlt the 6 foot even on a completely closed line.

 

Indeed - its so easy to get caught up in the details of the work at hand and forget momentarily where your are....

 

 

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17 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Indeed - its so easy to get caught up in the details of the work at hand and forget momentarily where your are....

 

 

 

Conversely I often seemed to know that a train was coming even though when I looked and listened I could not hear or see anything. I can only assume that my subconscious had heard the train go through a bridge or over a dipped joint, and started waving a little flag saying train coming somewhere towards the back of my head. 

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Awful news, we've been sent back to the yard to be briefed on this. Made my stomach turn when I heard about it 

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32 minutes ago, Trog said:

 

Conversely I often seemed to know that a train was coming even though when I looked and listened I could not hear or see anything. I can only assume that my subconscious had heard the train go through a bridge or over a dipped joint, and started waving a little flag saying train coming somewhere towards the back of my head. 

I had the same sort of experiences at times. There were familiar places where you could hear something or a subtle change in the background noise told you there was one on even though the Lookout hadn't got it in sight yet.

It saved me on one occasion when during an industrial dispute I went to investigate a TC fault. It was in a area with curved viaducts so I spoke to the box and got the line blocked. The fault was easily fixed although smelling of sabotage. As we were starting to go back to the access I sensed something and got myself and mate clear of the line ASAP. The bobby had seen the TC go clear and set a route straight through us. A few seconds later I saw a 47 with a loaded tank train bearing down on us.

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Sad. Very, very sad for all concerned. Thoughts are with the families of the bereaved, driver/train crew and all staff affected.

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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Indeed - its so easy to get caught up in the details of the work at hand and forget momentarily where your are....

 

 

So true - I consider myself very "trackwise" BUT I reckon I have escaped death or serious injury due to error, changing circumstances or sheer bad luck on at least 6 occasions spread over 39 years .....................

 

The thing that makes this event seem so tragic is that it is thankfully simply such an infrequent occurrence with track staff these days .............

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30 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

 

The thing that makes this event seem so tragic is that it is thankfully simply such an infrequent occurrence with track staff these days .............

And mention in the House indicates how desperately unlucky these guys were. We know NR does all possible to separate people and trains, but in past decades accidents like this occurred regularly and hardly provided a column inch. Now it is deservedly news. 

 

My nearest to a nasty moment was while inspecting a tunnel at the signalman's request, looking for the cause of a track circuit failure. Sadly the signalman in rear didn't seem to know, and cautioned a train through the tunnel while I was on the line. Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

And mention in the House indicates how desperately unlucky these guys were. We know NR does all possible to separate people and trains, but in past decades accidents like this occurred regularly and hardly provided a column inch. Now it is deservedly news. 

 

My nearest to a nasty moment was while inspecting a tunnel at the signalman's request, looking for the cause of a track circuit failure. Sadly the signalman in rear didn't seem to know, and cautioned a train through the tunnel while I was on the line. Thanks!

Yes this is indeed why it is so noticeable and shocking - it has become such a rarity on the national network thanks, mainly I think, to considerable effort being devoted to training and such things as site briefings.  

 

I wonder if NR still use the video BR made recreating a  number of incidents which had involved staff fatalities for the sort of reasons that were so often the case - concentrating on the job in hand and not what was happening on the railway around them, or not having sufficient knowledge of where they were to look after their own safety, or indeed communication failings such as a couple already mentioned in this thread?  We won't know the cause of this awful incident for some  time but I'm pretty sure that whatever is known about it internally about any shortcomings will be briefed out pretty quickly by NR to those who need to know and to be warned.

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My commiserations to the families and friends of the deceased. 

 

I hope if there are any immediate lessons to be learnt then RAIB is able to disseminate them quickly. 

 

When I started for BR the staff fatality rate was about one every ten days so we have come a long way since then. But this shows that we are not yet perfect. 

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Whilst fatalities, especially multiple ones, like this, have become thankfully rare, there are still an awful lot of near-misses every week. 

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1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

Whilst fatalities, especially multiple ones, like this, have become thankfully rare, there are still an awful lot of near-misses every week. 

 

Network rail have a good ‘near miss’ reporting line but it’s not just for near misses in the traditional sense of the word, ie a person nearly hit by a train, any close call incident can be called in to it, I’m lead to believe some of the incidences are actually quite comical in the grand scheme of things though 

 

I used it last week during a possession as I was told to proceed to the worksite marker boards only to reach the possession exit signal without reaching not only any worksite boards but not seeing any possession marker boards either! 

 

Apparently the worksite had been extended by about a mile putting the boards beyond the exit signal, boards put out by a contractor and revised info not given to the engineering supervisor, it’s lack of communication like that which can lead to serious incidents happening 

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2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

.......... hardly provided a column inch. Now it is deservedly news. ......

......... yes, absolutely deservedly so - but these poor guys, doing their legitimate job of work, will NOT get the column inches those three graffiti 'artists' idiots at Loughborough junction got, I'm afraid.

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22 minutes ago, big jim said:

 

Apparently the worksite had been extended by about a mile putting the boards beyond the exit signal, boards put out by a contractor and revised info not given to the engineering supervisor, it’s lack of communication like that which can lead to serious incidents happening 

 

Indeed

 

While working with lookouts brings hazards, the amount of planning / communication errors which routinely occur with possessions or line blockages means that they are nowhere near as 'safe' as the powers that be insist they are. To some extent the 'casualisation' of the industry and extensive use of contractors rather than in house teams all working out from local depots has much to answer for.

 

No amount of paperwork compensates for a through understanding of the area in which you are working - and equally no amount of paperwork will prevent a train from killing you or your colleagues are not keeping a sharp lookout.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bomag said:

When I was a p/way engineer I was always told that I needed to concentrate on the railway, even if it meant any survey took longer. Even now I get twitchy in the 4 foot and particularlt the 6 foot even on a completely closed line.

And the day you stop feeling like that, is the day to pack it in.

 

John

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Posted (edited)

.

 

The BBC News Channel has given the ages of the two rail workers killed and the fact that they are from Bridgend.

 

They stated that the two people killed were wearing ear defenders and couldn't hear the train approaching.

 

No source given.

 

Sympathy to the families.

 

EDIT:-  Statement by a British Transport Police spokesman now shown  -  confirms the above details.

 

.

Edited by phil gollin
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I like all of you extend my sympathies  to the families. But also there is the driver I also feel for and the worker who was not hit. 

 

Keith

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4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And mention in the House indicates how desperately unlucky these guys were. We know NR does all possible to separate people and trains, but in past decades accidents like this occurred regularly and hardly provided a column inch. Now it is deservedly news. 

 

My nearest to a nasty moment was while inspecting a tunnel at the signalman's request, looking for the cause of a track circuit failure. Sadly the signalman in rear didn't seem to know, and cautioned a train through the tunnel while I was on the line. Thanks!

Tunbridge Wells by any chance ??

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Is it regulations to wear 'ear defenders' presumably the PC version of ear plugs?  It doesn't mention what they were doing but in such a circumstance I would like to be able to hear what's happening.

      Brian.

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