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Hattons / Bachmann New Stock / cancelled pre-orders (07 Aug)

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20 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

I don't think we need to compile a data base of unfulfilled pre-orders here.

 

Post of the day!

 

I'll start deleting pointless ones and upset someone who demands to be heard. :biggrin_mini2:

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For both Hattons and Bachmann this is serious as sales of model railway items is their living but for the rest of us............get real they are toy trains and if you cannot buy it from Hattons I am sure another retailer will be happy to sell you it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Legend said:

Bachmann may well regret this.

 

Bachmann have plenty of other retailers selling their products so I don't see how losing Hattons is going to hurt them much. My NER E1 0-6-0T in 00 gauge pre-order was just cancelled. I want the model so I'll simply go order it from one of Hattons competitors. If anyone is going to regret the decision from a sales point of view I would think its more likely to be Hattons.

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1 hour ago, Verulam Central said:

me too preorder cancelled as I result I have now cancelled all preorder including non Bachmann to other retailers. They need to sort this issue out as its cost them sales now.   

 

I cannot understand the reasoning for cancelling other pre-orders for non-Bachmann items?  Sounds a tad childish, to be frank.

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3 minutes ago, YesTor said:

 

I cannot understand the reasoning for cancelling other pre-orders for non-Bachmann items?  Sounds a tad childish, to be frank.

It's called 'venting ones spleen'.

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I wonder if that explains the recent “warehouse finds” emails I’ve received from a few retailers the last few days.

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33 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Bachmann have plenty of other retailers selling their products so I don't see how losing Hattons is going to hurt them much. My NER E1 0-6-0T in 00 gauge pre-order was just cancelled. I want the model so I'll simply go order it from one of Hattons competitors. If anyone is going to regret the decision from a sales point of view I would think its more likely to be Hattons.

 

Ah but suppose Hattons think there's nothing now to stop me commissioning that brand new 37, might as well as we can't get any from  Bachmann .  You know someones going to produce one sooner  or later .

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i had a pre order in with Hattons for some N gauge, no surprise i got the email this morning saying its been cancelled!

 

Instead i went to TMC (The Model Center), redid my pre-order which was the easiest iv ever done on any website! id recommend going there if you want your pre-orders done nice and easy!

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47 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

…... if you cannot buy it from Hattons I am sure another retailer will be happy to sell you it.

 

 

Indeed and one of them is advertising free delivery on all Bachmann and Farish pre orders!

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Ah but suppose Hattons think there's nothing now to stop me commissioning that brand new 37, might as well as we can't get any from  Bachmann .  You know someones going to produce one sooner  or later .

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if the CADs for it turn out to have been under development for months. The O4 shunter is another model that Bachmann haven't bothered updating (for even longer than the 37).

 

Bachmann have also signalled that the J39 is fair game and I know people with several old ones on their last legs who were eagerly expecting it.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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15 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Ah but suppose Hattons think there's nothing now to stop me commissioning that brand new 37, might as well as we can't get any from  Bachmann .  You know someones going to produce one sooner  or later .

 

I can't get supplies from Bachmann so we'll chuck £150k+ at developing a new model? 

 

If that's the only reason then they won't be in business very long. 

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1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

I have clarified the position with Bachmann. If a customer has bought a model from a retailer (as new, directly supplied stock) who is either defunct, no longer an account holder or stock purchased from Bachmann before any supply ceased then the model is still covered by the Bachmann warranty. In such circumstances it's always advisable to retain proof of purchase.

 

If I read this correctly, anyone purchasing any Bachmann products from Hattons needs to ask where these have come from. If they have not been supplied direct by Bachmann to Hattons (i.e. Hattons purchased them from a 3rd party retailer as has been suggested earlier in this thread) they are not covered by Bachmann's warranty.  

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3 minutes ago, Kris said:

If they have not been supplied direct by Bachmann to Hattons (i.e. Hattons purchased them from a 3rd party retailer as has been suggested earlier in this thread) they are not covered by Bachmann's warranty.  

 

Technically correct but Bachmann wish to be as fair as possible and will try to help end users as much as possible.

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20 minutes ago, Kris said:

 

If I read this correctly, anyone purchasing any Bachmann products from Hattons needs to ask where these have come from. If they have not been supplied direct by Bachmann to Hattons (i.e. Hattons purchased them from a 3rd party retailer as has been suggested earlier in this thread) they are not covered by Bachmann's warranty.  

Stock has been shifted from retailer to retailer for years without affecting the warranty, I dont see anything in this announcement changing that!

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17 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Technically correct but Bachmann wish to be as fair as possible and will try to help end users as much as possible.

 

That's good to know as there appears to be quite a lot of passing around between retailers of different models now, including some retailer and rep limited editions, to help shift slow selling stock.

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2 hours ago, Free At Last said:

The email will have been sent to all Hattons customers who have Bachmann pre-orders, I don't think we need to compile a data base of unfulfilled pre-orders here.

 

 

No, although the one I had was a surprise to me; because I had no recollection of pre-ordering anything. 

 

There must have been a particularly strong vintage cider available, around last Christmas. ;)

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9 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Stock has been shifted from retailer to retailer for years without affecting the warranty, I dont see anything in this announcement changing that!

 

It doesn't matter if it's from one approved stockist to another but there have been instances where Bachmann have made it very clear that a warranty will not apply to a non-approved stockist (the rare occasions when there's been back-door transfers to some online-only businesses). For clarity their warranty states:

 

Quote

Bachmann products carry a Warranty for 12 months from the date of purchase against faulty materials or workmanship subject to the following conditions. During this period such defects that occur will be repaired or defective parts replaced free of charge.

1. This Warranty applies only if the item was purchased from an authorised retailer of Bachmann Europe plc (‘Bachmann’) within the European Union / EEA. This Warranty does not confer any rights other than those expressly set out above and does not cover any claims for consequential loss or damage. The Warranty is offered as an additional benefit and does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wheres_Wally said:

 

I can't get supplies from Bachmann so we'll chuck £150k+ at developing a new model? 

 

If that's the only reason then they won't be in business very long. 

That's not really the point. We already know that Hatton's are in the business of commissioning so it's just a case of deciding what, and ideally going after popular prototypes. With most diesel classes having been done at least once already, an "arms race" is inevitable.

 

The 37 is probably the lowest-hanging fruit right now, with Bachmann showing no inclination (publicly) to upgrade their model and clearly having difficulty getting new models out in general. As Hatton's relationship with Bachmann has already broken down, they'd have nothing to lose.

 

If Hatton's were to announce one, previous experience suggests Bachmann might lack the ability to react quickly enough to counter it, other than by severe price-cutting, which is something they clearly don't like doing.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

That's not really the point. We already know that Hatton's are in the business of commissioning so it's just a case of deciding what, and ideally going after popular prototypes. With most diesel classes having been done at least once already, an "arms race" is inevitable.

 

The 37 is probably the lowest-hanging fruit right now, with Bachmann showing no inclination (publicly) to upgrade their model and clearly having difficulty getting new models out in general. As Hatton's relationship with Bachmann has already broken down, they'd have nothing to lose.

 

If they were to go for it, previous experience suggests Bachmann might lack the ability to react quickly enough to counter it, other than by severe price-cutting, which is something they clearly don't like doing.

 

John

 

Thanks John

 

And of course the decision making process isn't , we've lost Bachmann lets throw £150k away developing a new model, its ahh for £150k development we can make £xxx K and we sell direct so we can keep manufacturer and retailer margin making £xxx return.  They made exactly that calculation on their forthcoming 66.  As John says with all major classes now covered and more modern versions promised (Heljan 25,45,47) Hattons own 66, the 37 is indeed low hanging fruit and looks vulnerable  . And despite Bachmann promises of speeding up the turn round time , there's no real evidence its improved (eg Rails Caley 812).   It doesn't look like they could react very quickly to any new model, except by lowering the price , like they did with 66.

 

The only fly in the ointment maybe that others are looking to do the 37. Heljan seem to be very busy just now, maybe Accurascale , Hornby recouping sales?

 

 

Edited by Legend

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1 hour ago, Wheres_Wally said:

 

I can't get supplies from Bachmann so we'll chuck £150k+ at developing a new model? 

 

If that's the only reason then they won't be in business very long. 

 

The Hattons / Bachmann issue was created (it appears) because Bachmann didn't like Hattons creating a new Class 66 model, and in an apparent attempt to reduce consumer choice Bachmann has/is attempting to not just make Hattons reconsider making models but indirectly any other retailers from directly working with China to make models.

 

Regardless of who is in the right / wrong regarding legal agreements or anything else, any attempt at reducing consumer choice is normally considered bad for the consumer.

 

It is also, as pointed out to the message you were replying to, if anything an added incentive for Hattons to choose future models that will not only generate a profit for Hattons but also replace existing Bachmann models that are a) overdue for new tooling and b) now missing from the Hattons shelves.

 

I will also point out that what Hattons did is not unique - many retailers, particularly in the food sector, tend to have their own brand of products that compete with outside suppliers and one doesn't see those outside suppliers refuse to supply stock to those retailers.

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Well at least it's out in the open now.  Not having any major retailers local to me (at least which sell stuff I want which tends not to be pretend water boilers) I do rely on box shifters, but as others have said other retailers are out there.  In any case, with Heljan's announcements of the 86,25,45 and 47 giving Bachmann some real competition in the next twelve months, Hatton's still stand a chance of relieving my bank balance of a couple of grand.  I expect any predictions of pain for Hatton's might prove to be short lived and premature.  

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The emails from Hattons are a good move IMHO, it gives clarity to the situation between them and Bachmann, (whatever that may be), and considers their customers.

It doesn't necessarily mean that Hattons will never be trading with Bachmann again, however unlikely some may think it does, it's  just Hattons assessment of the current situation.

 

Mike.

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30 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

That's not really the point. We already know that Hatton's are in the business of commissioning so it's just a case of deciding what, and ideally going after popular prototypes. With most diesel classes having been done at least once already, an "arms race" is inevitable.

 

The 37 is probably the lowest-hanging fruit right now, with Bachmann showing no inclination (publicly) to upgrade their model and clearly having difficulty getting new models out in general. As Hatton's relationship with Bachmann has already broken down, they'd have nothing to lose.

 

If Hatton's were to announce one, previous experience suggests Bachmann might lack the ability to react quickly enough to counter it, other than by severe price-cutting, which is something they clearly don't like doing.

 

John

I dont think Hattons' would be an ideal company to produce a 37.  Reading on this forum, modellers are wanting a definitive 37, which means being able to create tooling to cover the almost countless detail differences between class members over the years.  A company more used to producing high-quality models, paying attention to individual details would be best to take it on.  Someone like Accurascale or Rapido (hopefully not Heljan going by their 7mm 37!)

 

I hope someone does bring out a new 37 though, means there will be a healthy 2nd hand market at reasonable prices :-)

 

Its a shame its come to this between Bachmann and Hattons, but as has been said earlier, Hattons' carry a lot of lines and I cant imagine them being hurt too much by this.  

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40 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

The Hattons / Bachmann issue was created (it appears) because Bachmann didn't like Hattons creating a new Class 66 model, and in an apparent attempt to reduce consumer choice Bachmann has/is attempting to not just make Hattons reconsider making models but indirectly any other retailers from directly working with China to make models.

 

It is of course crucial to ignore retailers like Kernow when making such ‘fact free’ claims...

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