Any Sign of New Hornby Gresley A1/A3s without ski-jump?

[robmcg]

16 hours ago, Dominion said:

 

No small wiggly pipes on any of my other RHD A1s, Woolwinder, Flying Fox, Gladiateur, Great Northern or Royal Lancer. 

The roof vents do slide on this GN version of Flying Scotsman.

Also the join at the top seem of the boiler halves between the second boiler band and the dome is much better on this model than my other recent Hornby A1s/A3s.

There are only 3 lamp irons on the buffer beam, the extra right hand one fitted to the Great Northern model is not present. I do not know when that was removed on the prototype relative to the square corner buffer beam and the 4472 number.

 

Thanks for that, I had noticed the absence of that extra lamp iron too. Not sure when they were removed.

 

Lovely stuff,  here is a very slightly modified photo of the new model, I roughly drew brass beadings on the splashers...

 

Edit,

 

In photographing this lovely model I had run it a few inches to set the rods up or down, and it was a bit jerky. When I went to test it further it has a serious jamming/dead spot with each wheel-rev, and there are no obvious rod/motion reasons.  It won't 'free-up'and stops dead at every revolution... 

 

So I have to pack it up, post office, customs declaration, and about 15 Pounds Sterling to air freight back to the UK.  Waste of time for all concerned.  (Two blue Coronations recently returned , a third one with loose/missing front handrails, my brother repaired.)

 

Seriously thinking of giving up on new Hornby. SK era s/h  or known good ones only. It is such a nice model to look at, pity it won't go.

 

Disappointed,   again.    Sigh....

 

Hornby must be receiving a lot of unfit models returned from retailers.

Edited August 2, 2019 by robmcg

[Tiddles47]

Here's my bulled up version i did yesterday. Still needs touching up here and there and yes there is a bit of over spill on the chrome in a coupe of areas. The brass splashers need going over again as its way to "copperey"

[micklner]

18 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Thanks for that, I had noticed the absence of that extra lamp iron too. Not sure when they were removed.

 

Lovely stuff,  here is a very slightly modified photo of the new model, I roughly drew brass beadings on the splashers...

 

Edit,

 

In photographing this lovely model I had run it a few inches to set the rods up or down, and it was a bit jerky. When I went to test it further it has a serious jamming/dead spot with each wheel-rev, and there are no obvious rod/motion reasons.  It won't 'free-up'and stops dead at every revolution... 

 

So I have to pack it up, post office, customs declaration, and about 15 Pounds Sterling to air freight back to the UK.  Waste of time for all concerned.  (Two blue Coronations recently returned , a third one with loose/missing front handrails, my brother repaired.)

 

Seriously thinking of giving up on new Hornby. SK era s/h  or known good ones only. It is such a nice model to look at, pity it won't go.

 

Disappointed,   again.    Sigh....

 

Hornby must be receiving a lot of unfit models returned from retailers.

It may have had a pick up strip sticking in wheel spoke or something quite simple to repair.

[Dominion]

Sorry to hear Rob. Mine runs well thankfully, so we know it's capable if the issue can be found. Mick's suggestion fits what I have seen occasionally on Hornby's LNER pacific chassis, or perhaps the leading driver crank pin touching the con rod if the valve gear is a bit too close in. I know your dexterity is not what you would like, but if you can get the loco upside down in a  foam cradle and apply a little juice to the wheels you may be able to see something simple. Good luck with whichever route you decide to take.

[robmcg]

The centre driver locks once per revolution, it locks solid, feels like a drive-train fault.   There are no alignment issues with rods they all look excellent and free.   body off?   hmmm.    edit;  not likely, unless it's likely to be simply a loose motor mount or some other easy fix.

Edited August 2, 2019 by robmcg

[atom3624]

If its not a linkage issue, even slightly too loose, catching at a certain point, might it be a 'quartering' issue?

 

Al.

[robmcg]

The quartering looks perfect. I haven't had the body off an A3 for years, and then only to reset / bend ski-jumps.  if it's the drive gears between motor-worm and wheels then I'm not very disposed to fiddle with it. In fact I wouldn't if I was expecting a refund.  I have sent photos of the initial damage (buffer beam, ashpan lever etc) and description of the near seizure at every rev to the seller, haven't heard back yet. 

[robmcg]

10 hours ago, Tiddles47 said:

Here's my bulled up version i did yesterday. Still needs touching up here and there and yes there is a bit of over spill on the chrome in a coupe of areas. The brass splashers need going over again as its way to "copperey"

 

Very 'Wembley'  indeed!  Cheers.

[atom3624]

Is the mesh too new / tight, and it's simply a bit of running-in required, or even an odd shim to raise the worm off the drive gear?

 

Al.

[robmcg]

Could well be. But I spent an hour yesterday re-packing it for export back to the UK.  Lately I've only had short moment where I can do anything ...  I'll wait for a response from the UK seller.

 

Certainly loosening the base plate might help, something might be binding on the driving axle and associated parts... it happens once per rev so far as I can tell, Taking it apart is beyond my ability with my right arm and hand not very good etc. (slow, no fine touch, numb) And my left hand is pretty poor for some things, being right-handed, which is not to say I can't learn to do a lot of things and have a go,

 

Mainly, it's simply unfit for purpose. End of.

 

 

[atom3624]

Understood.

 

Good luck with the return.

 

Al.

[robmcg]

Thanks. I did a picture of it in mist ....   making up time, short-travel valves, 1924 and all that, so not a complete waste.  Still haven't heard from the seller.

 

Oddly, I saw a video clip the other day of a A380 jet landing, emerging from a wall of mist, spectacular, and I thought about the days of steam and fog and mist...  not often illustrated before Colin T Gifford and the like.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by robmcg
correction to pic

[Hilux5972]

Don’t forget it’s still the weekend over there Rob. 

[robmcg]

I'm very aware of that .   It's the cost of returning it which hurts.   It's not even the retailer's fault.  Should know by Wednesday where things are.

[robmcg]

On 04/08/2019 at 17:25, atom3624 said:

Understood.

 

Good luck with the return.

 

Al.

 

Thanks Al.

 

In view of the various suggestions, I took the time with a little help from a friend to carefully unpack the model, keeping the outer addressed packaging part intact and so on, and carefully removed the model again, inverted it released the chassis keeper-plate a little.

 

The centre drive axle meets serious resistance once per rev, such that with the keeper plate loose the whole axle and centre driving wheel wheel assembly is pushed down and jams, a cog or gear is quite possibly badly made or has a tooth not machined, who knows?  

 

Most disappointing.  I know it happens sometimes, I have, after all, owned dozens of 1960s-70s British cars. I even knew the service managers of BLMC and Jaguar cars in Christchurch NZ during the 70s. We took some new cars pretty much to pieces and re-assembled them, at times.

 

It is going back to the UK now, probably it will be dumped, sadly. The dealer will hopefully pay my UKP15 air post cost, as well as full refund, and will make little if any profit, everyone loses.

 

Presumably these models are not test run at the factory. I know that statistically the number of models sold by Hornby which are faulty and cannot be repaired by even someone with modest skills is possibly quite low, but it makes a very unsatisfying experience for the retailer  and the buyer.  Who could quantify that loss of business?  Perhaps it is no wonder Hornby may well be reverting to gimmicks and toys?

 

Or maybe I should just accept my recent 50% failure rate for new models?  I will have returned three, fixed one, and the other three I haven't had out of their boxes yet, but are Lord Nelsons which I am confident will be ok....  see?  Optimism. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by robmcg
typo

[MikeParkin65]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Thanks Al.

 

In view of the various suggestions, I took the time with a little help from a friend to carefully unpack the model, keeping the outer addressed packaging part intact and so on, and carefully removed the model again, inverted it released the chassis keeper-plate a little.

 

The centre drive axle meets serious resistance once per rev, such that with the keeper plate loose the whole axle and centre driving wheel wheel assembly is pushed down and jams, a cog or gear is quite possibly badly made or has a tooth not machined, who knows?  

 

Most disappointing.  I know it happens sometimes, I have, after all, owned dozens of 1960s-70s British cars. I even knew the service managers of BLMC and Jaguar cars in Christchurch NZ during the 70s. We took some new cars pretty much to pieces and re-assembled them, at times.

 

It is going back to the UK now, probably it will be dumped, sadly. The dealer will hopefully pay my UKP15 air post cost, as well as full refund, and will make little if any profit, everyone loses.

 

Presumably these models are not test run at the factory. I know that statistically the number of models sold by Hornby which are faulty and cannot be repaired by even someone with modest skills is possibly quite low, but it makes a very unsatisfying experience for the retailer  and the buyer.  Who could quantify that loss of business?  Perhaps it is no wonder Hornby may well be reverting to gimmicks and toys?

 

Or maybe I should just accept my recent 50% failure rate for new models?  I will have returned three, fixed one, and the other three I haven't had out of their boxes yet, but are Lord Nelsons which I am confident will be ok....  see?  Optimism. 

I fully understand your frustration. Given the postage costs is it worth you buying from dealers who will test a model before sending out? Lots of threads on this forum have have covered this topic before. Some might need an email to confirm your requirement to unpack and test before sending but for a decent model shop this won't present a problem - its a minutes work for them at most (and certainly less hassle than dealing with dissatisfied customers and returns!).

 

I am lucky in that I can travel to local model shops so I can couch for the efficacy in this respect of both Hereford Model Centre and Cheltenham Model Centre (separate business's by the way).

[ikks]

When I was in the workforce, the company who employed me produced expensive equipment. In the last few years I was there, we experienced myriad complaints that the machines were not fit for purpose. In one of our regular management meetings I fronted the expat European MD with the question " who is doing the R&D on this stuff........he looked at  me, winked and said "the customer"....bloody disgusting!! Small people were experiencing extreme difficulties(some went broke) at the hands of a very large Europe based multinational. Glad I'm away from this hypocrisy.

 

Mike

Edited August 5, 2019 by ikks

[GWR-fan]

On 31/07/2019 at 07:59, robmcg said:

Actually you couldn't do this kind of damage unless you were talented !  I haven't got the opportunity to repair it right now but am hoping it will become all but invisible...

 

 

p.s.   Isn't the flatness of the running plate in the previous pic thoroughly brilliant!  Who would have thought it possible?

 

Even SK-era A3s and A1s had wavy running plates... well, slightly, if you were fussy.. 

 

 

 

It is odd but Hattons list another latest release Flying Scotsman with identical damage as illustrated.  They reduced the price to GBP140.00.

[GWR-fan]

6 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I fully understand your frustration. Given the postage costs is it worth you buying from dealers who will test a model before sending out? Lots of threads on this forum have have covered this topic before. Some might need an email to confirm your requirement to unpack and test before sending but for a decent model shop this won't present a problem - its a minutes work for them at most (and certainly less hassle than dealing with dissatisfied customers and returns!)....................................................

 

 

 

There have been several instances of the customer requesting the store to check a model for serviceability prior dispatch only to receive a defective model.  From memory very prevalent during the early release of the Oxford Rails Dean Goods.  Several years ago on another forum there was a discussion as to whether stores were using overseas customers as a "dumping ground" for defective models, as most of the forum members who received faulty models were overseas customers.

[tractionman]

59 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

  most of the forum members who received faulty models were overseas customers.

 

or perhaps it's because of the longer time the models are in transit to overseas destinations?

 

something I think about when I get a poorly packaged delivery from GB, I wish all retailers / vendors would pack accordingly--some are excellent, but not all...

 

I have actually taken to adding in an extra item (something light but bulky) when ordering locos, so they don't just get sent in a tight-fitting box with limited packing but rather come in a larger box with plenty of protection/bubble-wrap etc.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by tractionman
minor change

[robmcg]

The retailer involved with my Scotsman purchase has asked for the engine to be returned, and will pay for the air freight, but has decided to stop selling from its 6,000+ item inventory to overseas customers because returns are becoming much more common and of course complicated, time-consuming and expensive.  I don't know how many sales are thus to be lost to Hornby, but quite a few.

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

 

It is odd but Hattons list another latest release Flying Scotsman with identical damage as illustrated.  They reduced the price to GBP140.00.

 

I would have kept mine but for the irreparable fault in the drivetrain and centre driving axle...  it is that which made me return it, not the mild cosmetic damage.   

 

No search of the Hattons site brings up the engine you describe.  under R3736 or 4472.

Edited August 5, 2019 by robmcg

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

 

It is odd but Hattons list another latest release Flying Scotsman with identical damage as illustrated.  They reduced the price to GBP140.00.

 

I believe that this kind of damage can be clearly explained.

 

Looking at the buffer in question, there is clear evidence that it has been carrying the weight of the front of the loco at the point where the black paint has worn away through friction. Whilst in the same position, the package has been subjected to shock loading - perhaps dropped - which has fractured the bufferbeam at the point which has been most stressed in transit.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

44 minutes ago, tractionman said:

 

or perhaps it's because of the longer time the models are in transit to overseas destinations?

 

 

Precisely !!

 

Overseas purchasers do, (or should do), so in the certain knowledge that their prized acquistions are going to be subject to far more 'robust' treatment in transit than a Royal Mail journey from the NW of England to, in my case, the SW of England.

 

I have many times the number of locos, purchased in the UK, than I would care to admit to anyone taking a critical view of my expenditure - but NONE of them have arrived damaged, and they have been despatched by a fair cross-section of UK suppliers to my address in the UK.

 

For all their critics, Royal Mail can apparently hold sway over the various couriers, air freighters and non-UK postal services that our overseas cousins have to contend with.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[robmcg]

43 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Precisely !!

 

Overseas purchasers do, (or should do), so in the certain knowledge that their prized acquistions are going to be subject to far more 'robust' treatment in transit than a Royal Mail journey from the NW of England to, in my case, the SW of England.

 

I have many times the number of locos, purchased in the UK, than I would care to admit to anyone taking a critical view of my expenditure - but NONE of them have arrived damaged, and they have been despatched by a fair cross-section of UK suppliers to my address in the UK.

 

For all their critics, Royal Mail can apparently hold sway over the various couriers, air freighters and non-UK postal services that our overseas cousins have to contend with.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Extended time in an aeroplane does not explain a semi-seized main driving axle.  The cosmetic damage as I stated I repaired. I would keep damaged goods if the damage was minor and cosmetic, but stripping and possibly replacing the main drive mechanism?  No.

 

The upper handrail weakness on the latest 6221 Coronation engines is just an unfortunate design and factory fault, and yes, less chance of it being a problem if sold in UK and not subjected to the inevitable handling and vibration of air freight. I gave up on two and returned them, but the next two received also had missing or loose handrails so I and my brother devised replacements which he fitted.

 

 

Similarly a number of Heljan 47XXs suffered serious cosmetic damage both to me in NZ and many in the UK, I repaired mine. The whole front was in bits, shades of 1960s Kitmaster, one boiler stay had worked its way into a fold in the cardboard box and defied discovery for days...  who says box opening is simple?

 

 

 

BUT if it had a seized driving axle I would sent it back, which I am now doing for the UK seller of  R3736  LNER 4472....

 

btw all my purchases come by Royal Mail to Auckland airport in NZ, go through customs and our handlers and couriers are generally excellent.

 

cheers

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by robmcg
added picture