Any Sign of New Hornby Gresley A1/A3s without ski-jump?

[robmcg]

57 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I believe that this kind of damage can be clearly explained.

 

Looking at the buffer in question, there is clear evidence that it has been carrying the weight of the front of the loco at the point where the black paint has worn away through friction. Whilst in the same position, the package has been subjected to shock loading - perhaps dropped - which has fractured the bufferbeam at the point which has been most stressed in transit.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Could you please give a reference to this ad?    No keyword searches have brought it to light in the last 50 minutes.

 

Here is the damage to my R3736

 

 

It's a pretty minor thing really, looked like this even without glue...

 

 

What a crying shame this lovely model engine is probably going to end up scrapped, and I don't mean the prototype! 

 

Part of me would have liked to dismantle the entire centre driving wheel assembly... and fix it.

[GWR-fan]

Rob,

          it looks like it has sold.  It was an R3736 and had identical damage to the buffer beam as your item has.  It was there either yesterday or the day before for GBP140.00.  I did a search on the Hattons site for "Flying Scotsman" and it was among the search returns.  Given that Hattons are selling the loco for GBP189.00,   some one considered the damage repairable given the price difference to new (a saving of GBP49.00).

[GWR-fan]

7 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Precisely !!

 

Overseas purchasers do, (or should do), so in the certain knowledge that their prized acquistions are going to be subject to far more 'robust' treatment in transit than a Royal Mail journey from the NW of England to, in my case, the SW of England.

 

I have many times the number of locos, purchased in the UK, than I would care to admit to anyone taking a critical view of my expenditure - but NONE of them have arrived damaged, and they have been despatched by a fair cross-section of UK suppliers to my address in the UK.

 

For all their critics, Royal Mail can apparently hold sway over the various couriers, air freighters and non-UK postal services that our overseas cousins have to contend with.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

John,

         cosmetic damage may be down to rough handling intransit,  however, mechanical issues are another matter.   There was a documented case on another forum of an overseas purchaser who received a Heljan Lion loco purchased new that was an obvious customer return as the loco had been dismantled and rudimentary repairs carried out to the internal mechanism and headcodes.  This may have been a simple stock keeping error on the part of the dealer,  but there were other cases where the poor running characteristics of the model were just too numerous to excuse an occasional lemon.

 

In my case two new train packs containing Hornby T9 locomotives were tested instore prior sale and then dispatched to me.  The dealer confirmed the models as functioning and yet a week later upon receipt downunder both locomotives were defective and non-operational due mazak rot.  Maybe the locomotives worked for the dealer and in the week travelling to me the gear cover on both train packs sent in separate parcels completely disintegrated or maybe the packs were dumped on me.  The dealer expressed no interest at all when advised of the issues and as a result never received another purchase from me.

 

Edit:  Ironically, this afternoon I received an inexpensive Lima class 67 from a well known store.  The item was well packaged in its original box,  Alas, during transit downunder the motor broke free from its mounting and smashed through a cab endwall.  Fortunately,  I was able to repair the body with minimal evidence of damage to the paint.  I had a Hornby motor mount in my spares but it seems the Hornby motor is different to the Lima motor in that the Lima can has larger diameter journals at either end so I had to reuse the original mount.   After reassembly and servicing the drive the unit ran very well.   Strangely the loco was described as missing its windshield wipers but these were still inside the stapled up accessory package so a bonus there.  I just need to sort out an inoperative light at one end but will be fitting LED's eventually.

Edited August 6, 2019 by GWR-fan
Additional info

[robmcg]

There may also be buyers who damage a new model accidentally and then fraudulently claim a refund, but this is presumably a sad part of the whole scenario of retailing.  Do not some dealers offer an option of money back, in a certain timeframe,  if returned in as-sold condition?

 

Quite separate to models which arrive damaged and faulty,  I agree motor and drivetrain issues such as my R3736 rendered it not fit for purpose (this particular retailer says they are soon stopping sales of Hornby locos to overseas buyers because the costs in time and money, the number of returns having risen lately).

 

That said there are buyers about who return models because of a bruise on a box or a small mark on a boiler...  who would be a retailer?

 

Then of course there are sellers on Ebay with less-than-perfect ethics, as well as buyers...  but I find the great majority of traders, buying and selling, in both retail and auctions, to be honest.

 

I think cctransuk's point about domestic UK sales being less likely to have any damage upon receipt is valid, but he may be quite lucky in this regard. Or he buys from sellers who pack well, (as do the ones who export to me in NZ). We both use Royal Mail.

 

I STILL keep looking at the photos I have taken of R3736 and wonder if I should have kept it, it's so beautiful! So what if it won't go without a rebuilt middle driving wheel axle and transmission? Still, the option of requesting a replacement or buying another is open.... 

Edited August 6, 2019 by robmcg

[cctransuk]

8 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

John,

         cosmetic damage may be down to rough handling intransit,  however, mechanical issues are another matter.

 

I have no doubt that there are less-then-scrupulous traders who may 'dump' faulty stock; the remedy is to only order from reputable traders. Buying from unknown sources in order to get a 'bargain', or an otherwise scarce model, will always carry an element of risk.

 

My point was that the risk of transit damage will always be higher if the journey is half way round the planet, and involves multiple agencies. There had been a suggestion that the broken bufferbeam on the 'Scotsman' must have been evident before despatch; that is clearly not true.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Hilux5972]

12 hours ago, robmcg said:

The retailer involved with my Scotsman purchase has asked for the engine to be returned, and will pay for the air freight, but has decided to stop selling from its 6,000+ item inventory to overseas customers because returns are becoming much more common and of course complicated, time-consuming and expensive.  I don't know how many sales are thus to be lost to Hornby, but quite a few.

Which retailer was that Rob? So I know to avoid them from now on lol. PM if you don’t wish to name them here. 

[GWR-fan]

27 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have no doubt that there are less-then-scrupulous traders who may 'dump' faulty stock; the remedy is to only order from reputable traders. Buying from unknown sources in order to get a 'bargain', or an otherwise scarce model, will always carry an element of risk.

 

My point was that the risk of transit damage will always be higher if the journey is half way round the planet, and involves multiple agencies. There had been a suggestion that the broken bufferbeam on the 'Scotsman' must have been evident before despatch; that is clearly not true.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

John,

         yes, as I stated in the edit to my post,  the Lima 67 received today had an extremely rough transit downunder, even though well packaged,  resulting in a lot of damage, thankfully repairable.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, robmcg said:

There may also be buyers who damage a new model accidentally and then fraudulently claim a refund, but this is presumably a sad part of the whole scenario of retailing.  Do not some dealers offer an option of money back, in a certain timeframe,  if returned in as-sold condition?

 

Quite separate to models which arrive damaged and faulty,  I agree motor and drivetrain issues such as my R3736 rendered it not fit for purpose (this particular retailer says they are soon stopping sales of Hornby locos to overseas buyers because the costs in time and money, the number of returns having risen lately).

 

That said there are buyers about who return models because of a bruise on a box or a small mark on a boiler...  who would be a retailer?

 

Then of course there are sellers on Ebay with less-than-perfect ethics, as well as buyers...  but I find the great majority of traders, buying and selling, in both retail and auctions, to be honest.

 

I think cctransuk's point about domestic UK sales being less likely to have any damage upon receipt is valid, but he may be quite lucky in this regard. Or he buys from sellers who pack well, (as do the ones who export to me in NZ). We both use Royal Mail.

 

I STILL keep looking at the photos I have taken of R3736 and wonder if I should have kept it, it's so beautiful! So what if it won't go without a rebuilt middle driving wheel axle and transmission? Still, the option of requesting a replacement or buying another is open.... 

You’ve done the right thing Rob - you paid for a working model not an ornament.  It would have been hard to sell on privately. Happily you made some fantastic images of it before it went

[robmcg]

13 hours ago, cctransuk said:

....
 

My point was that the risk of transit damage will always be higher if the journey is half way round the planet, and involves multiple agencies. There had been a suggestion that the broken bufferbeam on the 'Scotsman' must have been evident before despatch; that is clearly not true.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Yes, you are right about risk of transit damage.  I had thought the damaged buffer beam must have been evident before despatch, I was wrong.  It may be that the engine was poorly placed in the plastic housing at the factory, or moved with vibration and handling during transit, or both.

 

I think packaging generally excellent.  Air freight to the Antipodes does seem to involve vibration and being handled roughly. Our local couriers are very good, so I cannot say exactly where the trouble is.  My seller has had three returns from 26 purchases by me, at £14  each that's a lot of profit gone.

[G-BOAF]

On 02/08/2019 at 20:28, Tiddles47 said:

Here's my bulled up version i did yesterday. Still needs touching up here and there and yes there is a bit of over spill on the chrome in a coupe of areas. The brass splashers need going over again as its way to "copperey"

What 'chrome' paint did you use (make, cat nmber)?

And did you paint up the valve gear? If so, what is the trick to not clog all the joints with paint?

Quite wanting to 'bull up' my Mallard to preservation standards

[Tiddles47]

Humbrol no 56 i think (off top of me head) aluminium metallic enamel. or 191 Chrome Silver Metallic enamel.  All the valve gear was painted very lightly (and still needs touching up) and i need a thinner tipped brush. Need going over again in places. 

[Captain_Mumbles]

I have just opened mine and guess what!

Apart from that it must be the most gorgeous model they have made.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[Hilux5972]

That’s a bug-ger. Little bit of glue will sort it though. Still a pain to have to do though 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Hilux5972

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

That’s a bug-ger. Little bit of glue will sort it though. Still a pain to have to do though 

Are these hard to get though? If its new and still available I'd send that one back for replacement as the part has cracked  - maybe over the numbering too which will be hard to disguise. I was 'lucky' with an earlier A3 that had a similar problem but the buffer beam was intact so it was a simple matter to glue it back in place.

[Captain_Mumbles]

19 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Are these hard to get though? If its new and still available I'd send that one back for replacement as the part has cracked  - maybe over the numbering too which will be hard to disguise. I was 'lucky' with an earlier A3 that had a similar problem but the buffer beam was intact so it was a simple matter to glue it back in place.

Looks like I'll get away with it. It looks like early A1s had a buffer beam not much higher than the buffer oleo mounting plate. It has cracked along the line of the plate. Hiding the crack along that inner line/step. Judging by the mission in getting the thing, I wont try my luck getting a replacement. Looks like it runs well. Looks like an amazing model. I am seriously considering getting another one to rename. I absolutely love this model, and the great northern. So much charm in the as-built configuration.

edit: might be getting hard to get now!

Edited September 17, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[micklner]

It might be easier to take the Bufferbeam off before gluing.It should come away easily with a little pressure with a scalpel blade along the joint.

You will be lucky to glue as it is and the Bufferbeam then remaining flat as the glue cures. It needs a some weight to hold it down flat, while the glue sets.

When the Beam is off , it will be much easier to paint the Red areas around the outside of the  lining which should be Black, which Hornby have ignored as well.

[Captain_Mumbles]

Okay, will do that. I agree it will be easier to adjust the paintwork on the buffer beam if removed.