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No46

GWR Y1 fruit van thought at first a Siphon O1 four wheeled short type kit.

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Posted (edited)

Just a little quickie if I may. 

Back story: I purchased Cooper Craft V4 mink kit on eBay when it arrived it was nothing like a mink but some other type 4 wheeled wagon with alternating relief planks on both sides and ends. Before returning it my little brain got busy and thought about basing it into a small short wheeled siphon.

I have been researching said idea and the best I can come up with (closest) is; GWR Siphon O1 https://www.diagram3d.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=144.

I have spent a day opening the relief and will post pics as soon as possible.

 

I was just wondering if anyone had researched, discovered and/or modelled their own short siphon and what their results are?

 

 

Edited by No46
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I cut down the K's siphon, to represent the shorter version based on the only image I have seen of the derailed one in GW siphons by Jack Slinn. It is slightly overlength but looks the part. 

 

Sad thing is they did not last long and it looks a of out of place in 1930's Wiltshire. I have not run it in train for some time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Mike I'm not brave enough to cut one of those down but through a little happy accident I have discovered this small siphon and have something a little close, not as accurate in planking as those Ks siphons but will do.  My planned layout is 20/30s but my stock is everything Great Western as long as the rake is believable, applying rule 1 to a real life location. I will be modelling the single brake one side and the double the other as per 1920s (I think), another little oddity. 

 

Was hoping to finish off the paint and get the chassis and roof married but hey there is always another day. Pic so far;

 

DSCF9335.JPG.a22c96cf54a12f7ccafee1b18c810b72.JPG

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Do you have any pictures please Mike? or anyone else let the siphons run!

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Thank you Miss Prism I do feel like a fool now but hey an even better wagon diagram to have especially as the original purchase was a mink v4.

Glad I posted thank you.

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17 hours ago, No46 said:

Mike I'm not brave enough to cut one of those down but through a little happy accident I have discovered this small siphon and have something a little close, not as accurate in planking as those Ks siphons but will do.  My planned layout is 20/30s but my stock is everything Great Western as long as the rake is believable, applying rule 1 to a real life location. I will be modelling the single brake one side and the double the other as per 1920s (I think), another little oddity. 

 

 

Another slight snag: the Y1 Goods Fruit van had 3' 7" wheels and Armstrong style vacuum/DC lever brakes, and footsteps under the doorway...

The good news is that, being built in 1904-5, they lasted in service into the late '30s at least, probably longer.

 

 

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Thanks wagonman will need a little rethink then.

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On 06/07/2019 at 08:35, No46 said:

Thank you Miss Prism I do feel like a fool now but hey an even better wagon diagram to have especially as the original purchase was a mink v4.

Glad I posted thank you.

Did the kit come assembled and is it brass or plastic? The only kit I know of for a Y1 is the etched one by Falcon Brass, and I wasn't aware that CC had ever made a kit for a fruit van. If it's a plastic model, I wonder if the slots have been cut by a previous owner?

 

To finish this as a Y1, you need:

 

- suitable axleguards for the larger wheels (I used MRD axleguards on my Y2 which is a very similar wagon); 

 

- the Mainly Trains etch of brake parts, now sold by Wizard;

 

- longer-than-typical-wagon-but-not-as-long-as-coach springs in shackles (not J-hangers) (can be bought from my Shapeways shop if you can tolerate SW's prices);

 

 - axleboxes, MJT do them;

 

- a Dean-type vacuum cylinder, which nobody seems to make in the size used on wagons, but I may introduce a printed version sometime this year (I too have a Y1 to finish); you could probably make the cylinder from scratch without too much grief.

 

There's a GA for a Y1 reproduced in Atkins+.

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Thanks Guy, The kit is plastic and the slots I opened them, they were relief on the original. 

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Posted (edited)

Well, this will probably give you finescale chaps apoplexy, or a good laugh, but here are two unfinished (footboards in progress) Coarse 0 renditions, using laser-cut body kits made by a fellow RMWebber. 

 

They are sized to match 1930s Hornby tinplate, so are too tall, among other things.

 

They are known as Condensed Milk Vans.

 

The best photo I've found of the real thing has as its main subject a loco of the Brill Tramway, but the van is very clearly shown, and has doors as here, rather than the ones with upper and lower sections, each with its own sway-brace.

 

D12F5945-98BC-46D4-A6F5-257A517C1B2A.jpeg

Edited by Nearholmer
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17 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Well, this will probably give you finescale chaps apoplexy, or a good laugh, but here are two unfinished (footboards in progress) Coarse 0 renditions, using laser-cut body kits made by a fellow RMWebber. 

 

They are sized to match 1930s Hornby tinplate, so are too tall, among other things.

 

They are known as Condensed Milk Vans.

 

 

 

 

...and there was me thinking the 'condensed' referred to the milk rather than the van...

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21 hours ago, No46 said:

Thanks Guy, The kit is plastic and the slots I opened them, they were relief on the original. 

 

 

Wow! That must have been fun.

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Couple of hours work but worth it I think. I used one of those scriber type tools then cleaned out with a scalpel. The sides lose the strength so cross braces are required but I generally do this in all wagons to ensure sides stay true in future years. 

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I have tried a little research for the Y1 friut van but drawn a blank so far, plenty of Y2s though. How different are they? I also notice a lot have no apparent slates resembling more like a closed van. Might have to scrap the whole thing!

 

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Posted (edited)
On 09/07/2019 at 10:13, No46 said:

I have tried a little research for the Y1 friut van but drawn a blank so far, plenty of Y2s though. How different are they? I also notice a lot have no apparent slates resembling more like a closed van. Might have to scrap the whole thing!

 

 

The Y2 was smaller (ie Lower) and had solid sides with out the slats. The under frames were much the same though, so your Y2 photos are a good reference for that part. There were only 100 Y1s built which might explain why they seem camera shy, though there are a couple of photos in Atkins/Beard/Tourret.

Edited by wagonman
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Posted (edited)

Y1s did not have open slats in the form the 6-wheel siphons had nor a rack of louvres as per the later bogie siphons. It seems the Y1s 'vents' were formed by the chamfered shape of the planks. I would estimate the height of the chamfer is in the order of 1.5". For a ventilation gap to be thus formed, it would seem essential that there was a corresponding chamfer on the inside of the planks.

 

y1-planks.gif.16bbbef43755c5c07469df3447e11bab.gif

 

For brake detail, see  Raymond Walley's excellent Y2.
 

Edited by Miss Prism
url to Ray Walley's site screwed up by crap software
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Thank you to one and all for your advice and help. It appears I have in my ignorance ruined the wagon sides regarding making a Y1 fruit although I think I can possibly fix this error by placing plasticard inside to close up all the opened slates. This may or may not work depending on how odd those holes will look. If this should fail to just the desired appearance I think rule 1 will have to be applied to this wagon and a semi-closed shorted siphon type experiment wagon will have to be put into service.

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Work on the chassis started. I will have to check the wagon body later but thought to start on the chassis as it will save time later if sides prove OK. So easy bit down so far will have to wait until back on the work bench to complete as I need to reduce the replacement the W iron assembly to fit the solebar.

20190711_100811.jpg.aa4d7a285a2a26e04ed01e6216994e9a.jpg20190711_100840.jpg.6dab0282fca269af64f09696ba663289.jpg20190711_121753.jpg.fe6e70f83ce82650e111f7dedc8a325c.jpg

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After a little more chassis work I have this;

 

DSCF9336.JPG.5d11bd56d6ea69e111e283fa491ecdd2.JPG DSCF9337.JPG.f48c8fb5a7331e02b7ae2067be0cf623.JPG DSCF9338.JPG.2fbc738df0131ed72128eaf891fb059d.JPG

Better pictures than from my phone as per yesterdays efforts.

Maybe not 100% accurate a reasonable attempt I would like to think.

Just need to make some appropriate steps now.

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Does anyone know of a why to change the Heading for a posting please? This one now has no reference to what is actually detailed here.

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I *think* you edit the OP. I.e. the first post in the thread.

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3 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

I *think* you edit the OP. I.e. the first post in the thread.

Perfect thank you. That is the answer I certainly would never have thought of that route.

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Couldn't sleep so 4Am saw an attack on the required steps. The prototype appears to have very chunky steps boards! The pictures make the boards look heavier than they do to the naked eye. Happy with what I have, now to prime and paint. I will also completely board the inside of each of the wagon sides to return the vents to a more closed appearance.

 

DSCF9339.JPG.fe26d1474f448f43214d3269f9550f2f.JPGDSCF9340.JPG.2c77e65d5f6afd35e0b06b79f2df9708.JPG

 

Roof and the small chimney next. 

 

Parts placed together;

 

DSCF9341.JPG.3d4ea55d824f8a1000fa3657f1b9f28b.JPG

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20 hours ago, No46 said:

Roof and the small chimney next. 

I’m intrigued by this comment. AFAIK such a vehicle wouldn’t have had a stove so no chimney. Could it have been an oil lamp top instead?

Tim T

Modelling South Wales branches in EM

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