Hattons J24

[DougN]

I was just floating around on hattons website and tripped over the following:

Wishlist item of LNER J24

https://hattonshobbies.com/products/lner-j24-0-6-0-not-yet-made-add-to-your-wishlist-and-we-will-inform-you-if-this-model-is-announced?variant=29215389057118

 

There is a Wishlist item to each N gauge, OO and O gauge. 

 

Well I am surprised and excited as this is one of the many locomotives I am very keen to get my hands on! 

Edited July 4, 2019 by DougN

[woodenhead]

But it is just a wishlist so not an actual proposal to make one, you might be one of the very few people excited by this model and it never appears.

 

But I do think this is a good way of drumming up support for new models without attracting the minefield of wishlisting on forums that actually deliver a lot of froth and little actual substance.

[truffy]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But I do think this is a good way of drumming up support for new models without attracting the minefield of wishlisting on forums that actually deliver a lot of froth and little actual substance.

 

I was kinda scratching my head thinking that they were just raising false hope while trying to drum up interest. But when you put it that way, I guess it makes some sense.

 

Although they must populate the dreamlist with some intel on what's possible or potentially available (ex manufacturers' unrealised tooling/CAD perhaps). Otherwise, what's to stop them adding a Fell?

Edited July 4, 2019 by truffy

[melmoth]

2 minutes ago, truffy said:

 Otherwise, what's to stop them adding a Fell?

 

Or an APT?

[Bernard Lamb]

3 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Or an APT?

Or even an S160

Bernard

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

But it is just a wishlist so not an actual proposal to make one, you might be one of the very few people excited by this model and it never appears.

 

But I do think this is a good way of drumming up support for new models without attracting the minefield of wishlisting on forums that actually deliver a lot of froth and little actual substance.

 

Alternately, it gives Hattons a head start in getting the sale if anyone (well, at least anyone who deals with Hattons/retailers in general) announces one as Hattons can quickly send out a specific email to you.

 

Sort of like how with some items you search for on Amazon they instead offer a button to "inform you if the item becomes available in the future".

[D9020 Nimbus]

I'd have thought a J21 a more likely NE engine than a J24 to produce. There's also scope for a J39 to modern standards now Bachmann have cancelled theirs.

[Sun Chariot]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I'd have thought a J21 a more likely NE engine than a J24 to produce. There's also scope for a J39 to modern standards now Bachmann have cancelled theirs.

 

 

 Totally agree a J21 as 65099 is still with us

[DougN]

I did put up another post only to find it didn't want to post. There was a number of other models that Hattons have in the dream list including  the following along with coaches and it does vary with Scale

 

The following 2 are also up. 

V2

https://hattonshobbies.com/products/lner-v2-2-6-2-not-yet-made-add-to-your-wishlist-and-we-will-inform-you-if-this-model-is-announced-1?variant=29215394234462

 

S160 

https://hattonshobbies.com/products/usatc-s160-2-8-0-not-yet-made-add-to-your-wishlist-and-we-will-inform-you-if-this-model-is-announced?variant=29215393218654

 

Unfortunately I can not see the V2 succeeding as Bachmann should in the mid term produce one. 

 

The S160 would be interesting however I think the J24 being the mid sized 0-6-0 and the North Eastern which seems to be a rich seam of rolling stock at the moment. (Hornby Q6, Oxford J26/J27)

 

 

 

[Heritage Tim]

V2???

Crumbs, imagine if the same week they seem to have resolved the Bachmann dispute they go ahead and announce a new OO gauge V2.

[45568]

4 hours ago, Heritage Tim said:

V2???

Crumbs, imagine if the same week they seem to have resolved the Bachmann dispute they go ahead and announce a new OO gauge V2.

Yeah, bloody marvellous as the saying goes!!! We would see it before the new millenium, and also get a good choice of liveries and variants. Bring it on. my order for four awaits.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[No Decorum]

18 hours ago, truffy said:

Otherwise, what's to stop them adding a Fell?

A Fell seems like a good idea to me. I’ve been left a bit high and dry after Heljan gave me a taste for prototypes and experimentals.

 

An S160 seems like a very good idea.

 

DJ’s Hudswell Clarke being abandoned, it would seem an obvious choice, given the success of small industrials. Hatton’s has shown it could be done and so has Hornby.

 

APT? The discussion elsewhere has been extensive but, if it is to be done, perhaps Hornby’s no-frills approach as on the Javelin and 800s might be best.

 

What were we talking about? Oh yes, a J24. Wait to see if Oxford’s J27 sells well. If it does (or if it doesn’t and the reason is that Oxford messes up), then get stuck in.

 

I say again, an S160 is a very good idea.

[Wickham Green]

10 hours ago, DougN said:

....... Unfortunately I can not see the V2 succeeding as Bachmann should in the mid term produce one. .......

 

 

 

But somebody else beat them to an updated Lord Nelson, didn't they !

[it's-er]

This began on 26 June, when Hattons posted their latest train formations guide, covering World War 2 Era 3: see here

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=541&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ww2formations&utm_content=formationsgroup&fbclid=IwAR2BvbuSXWripe0FrDWYpRsS15-7e0YmmZni0606Mnf-BvWl9Td6lgnOsHU

 

Usually most items shown are/have been/will be available in OO. But on this occasion, there are 2 locomotives that are not yet available rtr in OO - the J24 and the USATC S160 2-8-0.

 

None of us who contribute on RMweb knows whether this is just Hattons having a bit of fun; or if it is a tease about possible forthcoming models from them.  I hope it is the latter, and I'm sure I'm not alone there! 

 

John Storey

[truffy]

33 minutes ago, it's-er said:

just Hattons having a bit of fun; or if it is a tease about possible forthcoming models from them

Or, as a rank-outsider, a simple brainfart

[Wickham Green]

44 minutes ago, it's-er said:

This began on 26 June, when Hattons posted their latest train formations guide, covering World War 2 Era 3: see here

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=541&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ww2formations&utm_content=formationsgroup&fbclid=IwAR2BvbuSXWripe0FrDWYpRsS15-7e0YmmZni0606Mnf-BvWl9Td6lgnOsHU

 

Usually most items shown are/have been/will be available in OO. But on this occasion, there are 2 locomotives that are not yet available rtr in OO - the J24 and the USATC S160 2-8-0.

 

................ and I don't think I'm aware of any ready to run Coronation Stock ....... or did I blink ?

[Steamport Southport]

I think virtually anything is more likely than a J24 in N gauge. In fact you could probably do every single LNER 0-6-0 before you would even contemplate a J24.

 

I'm wondering whether it's just a left over from when DJM was gazumped to the Q6 and decided to plan something that nobody else would do. As a J25, J26 or J27 are the most likely and Oxford have since announced a J27.

 

 

 

Jason

[DougN]

i know I am being pedantic here but the J26 and J27 are effectively the same class. Locos had over hauls and jumped backwards and forwards between the two. I say this as I have built a J27 and in the process (20 years later) building a J26 the differences between the 2 really is the round or teardrop shape of the cab windows. The boilers interchanged between the 57 and the 57a, super heated vs not super heated... then the tenders were all the 3038gal but changed with different style and numbers of coal rails. 

 

So so I would say that Oxford may do versions of both classes over time. 

[adb968008]

Not another lner  j-heap.

 

Other companies had 0-6-0’s.. including hundreds of a single type that ran in their own back yard, and is preserved, in pretty liveries and never modelled.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

Hatton's back yard? That would be a J10 or J11 then. Only a mile or so from the GCR/CLC.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Hatton's back yard? That would be a J10 or J11 then. Only a mile or so from the GCR/CLC.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Hmm, do I detect a 5th column at 27C.., i need to defend tribal loyalties here...

 

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the UKs larger companies, with many innovations others hadn't thought of, and trained those CMEs of others..

 

another clue, like all big railways it had an “L” as first letter, but not for London, and J stood for Joy.. certainly not what those LNER 0-6-0s were .. as they say in Liverpool A.A.A.A.., indeed with 484 built there was a lot of places people said... A, Rebuilt A ..

Edited July 6, 2019 by adb968008

[Les1952]

On 05/07/2019 at 23:35, DougN said:

i know I am being pedantic here but the J26 and J27 are effectively the same class. Locos had over hauls and jumped backwards and forwards between the two. I say this as I have built a J27 and in the process (20 years later) building a J26 the differences between the 2 really is the round or teardrop shape of the cab windows. The boilers interchanged between the 57 and the 57a, super heated vs not super heated... then the tenders were all the 3038gal but changed with different style and numbers of coal rails. 

 

So so I would say that Oxford may do versions of both classes over time. 

 

The J26 and J27 were outwardly virtually identical but it is NOT true that locos jumped backwards and forwards between the two classes.  The J27 was a development of the J26.  Having said that the LNER treated similar developments different ways, sometimes ignoring them completely and at other times issuing different part numbers within a class. 

 

As to cab windows- all of the J26s and all of the saturated J27s had circular front windows as built.  Only the later superheated locos were shaped when built.  Over the years all J27s and 32 J26s got shaped windows leaving 18 J26 with circular windows to withdrawal.  Willie Yeadon records no instances of locos reverting.  Likewise superheated boilers couldn't be fitted onto J26s as the frames were slightly different at the firebox end.   Most (almost all) superheated J27s reverted to saturated- whether this was on fitting new-build saturated boilers or by removing superheaters from existing boilers (or both) I would have to look up.

 

In BR days- ANY superheated loco was a J27 (and built as such).  Likewise any loco with balance weights to the wheels was a J27 (and built as such).

 

A loco that was saturated with no balance weights and shaped cab spectacles could have been either.  The only way to tell them apart was either to look at the shape of the frames in a part you couldn't easily see (different on the two classes as built) or to look at the running number.

 

It would be possible for Oxford to do a J26- easy if the cab front is a slide allowing the different shaped windows, and easy if unbalanced driving wheels are being done.

 

Les

(info from the RCTS green Guide and Willie Yeadon's register)

 

Incidentally I already have J25, J26 and J27 running in N-gauge (thank you Union Mills and N Brass for the bits to upgrade them).  It would be nice to see a J24.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Les1952

[DougN]

Thanks Les, I was aware that the main difference was the cab windows and the number of changes in the boiler types, this was all coming from research a long time ago. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. 

 

I agree with you that the differences could be rung with the models if Oxford chose too. 

[Les1952]

23 hours ago, DougN said:

Thanks Les, I was aware that the main difference was the cab windows and the number of changes in the boiler types, this was all coming from research a long time ago. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. 

 

I agree with you that the differences could be rung with the models if Oxford chose too. 

The only thing I'm not sure about in the Oxford tooling is the smokebox, which I believe was longer on the superheated locos.  With a smaller boiler and altered cab front they might be able to do the J25 as well.  

 

To get back to the J24, the J21/25/26/27 effectively shared a chassis (at least as far as the modeller is concerned, the J21 being a J25 with wheels 6 inches larger to all purposes.  The J24 however was much smaller.

 

It would be nice to have a J24, though I think a J21 would be more practical, and with 210 locos amounting to10% of the NER loco stock at grouping, much more numerous.  It had the advantage of passenger train brakes.  The last J21 (65033) worked a special over the Stainmore line not long before it closed, was turned at Tebay then worked the special over Shap Summit unaided.  Not bad for an elderly class 2 loco, even if the train was only three coaches.

 

Les

[DougN]

From what I have read the J26/ J27 had the Diagram 51 and 51a Boiler if I remember correctly. The main differences being the construction and the number and size of steel bands but from a model perspective these were the same external diameter over the cladding. 

 

You're correct in that the superheater caused long and short smoke boxes. I think this could again be done with inserts or separate moldings. 

 

As you have suggested the J21 is a lot more practical due to its more mixed traffic nature and I do agree. I have started but never finished the one of each I was building years ago!