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Advice on way forward with point motors/actuators


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I'm after a bit of advice. While building my last layout "Scratchy Bottom/Lowick" I operated the point work using "Blue turnout actuators". They haven't let me down, yet, but I was wondering if using DCC controled point motors. my new layout is only 6ft long including the fiddle yard. Would I gain anything by going digital?

 

I have used Peco and H&M motors in the past with poor results.

 

Marc

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One of our club members has a circular display layout (8 feet, 10 feet across?) and converted it to DCC.  He said that for the size, he regretting converting the points to DCC.

 

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Don't mix up the type of motor (e.g solenoid, servo or slow action) with how you control them (e.g. analogue or digital).

 

For reliability reasons, I have replaced all the H&M and SEEP solenoids on my layout with Cobalt slow-action motors.

 

Some of the Cobalts are analogue and some digital, depending on where they are on the layout. Those at the stations are analogue, operated by Modratec lever frames. Those in the storage areas are digital, operated through NCE Mini Panels to set the routes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you feel that you might want to change the layout at some time, or operate the turnouts/signals from a different viewpoint then I'd say DCC possibly but if you want a simple life and don't want to change a control panel you will save yourself quite a bit of time, aggro and money by staying analogue.

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My layout is DCC for loco control, but after much thinking I decided to use analogue control for the points . The layout is only small 13ft x 1ft and I have 10 point motors. There are three crossovers (using 6 of the motors) and I decided to use a small switch panel hidden in a low relief building. This 7 switch panel controls Tortoise motors driven from a 12vDC regulated power supply. I saw no advantage for me in going to anything more complex.

The Tortoise motors have proved reliable.

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I was rummaging in a tool box to get a file for a job and found a Fulgurex slow acting point motor that I must have bought years ago.

Two questions.

1) Are they any good?

and

2) if you're powering the layout with DCC what do you use as a 12v DC supply for the point motor?

Marc

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1) I have used them on exhibition layouts with no problems at all. It is advisable to apply a minuscule amount of silicon paste to the gearing.

 

2) They will operate quite happily on lower voltages than 12 volts and, of course, they are only powered very briefly, so you can use a "series four-pack" of 1,5 volt AA batteries. Just remember to keep some spare ones around.

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I can see advantages with using each method. It is a matter of what works best for you on the layout you have in mind.

 

Traditional control:

Most of us are familiar with it, which can make it easier to troubleshoot.

It costs less. Switches & connectors are cheaper than decoders.

 

 

DCC control:

More flexible. You do not have to plan everything in advance & wiring will not escalate out of control on a larger layout. Once the bus is in place, you can add extra features you never before thought of, such as signals, building lighting, adding additional pointwork.

You can have a mixture of slow motion & solenoid accessories, so if you had some solenoid motors but wanted a slow action semaphore signal, you can program the decoder to operate them appropriately.

You can create a macro which operates several points in sequence.

You do not have to use a handset to operate points but this is always an option even if you do have a panel with an encoder. This would also allow you to have duplicate control panels (maybe 1 on a physical panel & another on a PC screen) in the same way that you can drive trains with multiple throttles.

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On 04/07/2019 at 19:48, Furness Wagon said:

I'm after a bit of advice. While building my last layout "Scratchy Bottom/Lowick" I operated the point work using "Blue turnout actuators". They haven't let me down, yet, but I was wondering if using DCC controled point motors. my new layout is only 6ft long including the fiddle yard. Would I gain anything by going digital?

 

I have used Peco and H&M motors in the past with poor results.

 

Marc

The simple answer is that you will not gain anything on such a layout by going to DCC point control. Control of points from a DCC controller is way less convenient than by simple manual controls like the blue turnout actuators. I woul recommend staying with them.

As for fulgurex, why do something different just for one, leave it in its box.

Rgds

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Thanks for the advice everyone. Most people have said stay away from DCC point control and I think I had better track down 5 more blue actuators. Not sure were from as EDM don't have them listed on their new website.

 

Marc

 

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22 minutes ago, Furness Wagon said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Most people have said stay away from DCC point control and I think I had better track down 5 more blue actuators. Not sure were from as EDM don't have them listed on their new website.

 

Marc

 

Is this what you are using?  No idea if the price is reasonable or not.  It is the first thing I found on the web.

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Yes, they do ship to the UK.  I get a pop-up window simply telling me they have set the currency to GBP and there's a little union flag at the top right next to the word 'checkout'.  The shipping might put the price up too much though.  It struck me that once you've added shipping and the other materials they are approaching the price of Cobalt point motors.  There is the convenience factor though.

 

Found this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-RAIL-MODELS-40018-5-BLUE-POINT-TURNOUT-CONTROLLER-x-5-New-boxed/153438812735?hash=item23b9aa7a3f:g:IeEAAOSwn25aBb~3

 

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I just went to their website the 5 pack is £72.50 but their ebay price is £57.85. Having said that DPDT switches at 47p sound even cheaper only problem is there is nowhere to mount them.

 

Marc

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There are usually various ways of arranging the design method by which DPDT point actuators move the tie-bars, the blue-point ones just being a ready made unit, a sprung wire actuator locking in position with a changeover switch which does the crossing polarity. Simple and effective. Do I gain the impression you have considered DCC point control because of space issues, no room to site switches on the edges of your new baseboard/layout design?  Because ordinary DPDT switches can be used under the baseboard just like the blue point units, using limit stops rather than sprung wire if desired.

 

I must confess that having gone around the houses in recent years with motorised point/signal control on the small layouts I build, solenoid/ slow action/servo I have returned to manual using DPDT’s simply because it’s easier/simpler/cheaper/reliable.

 

Izzy

Edited by Izzy
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I suppose I should have posted a photo of the layout. It might explain why surface mounting isn't really an option. The scenic area is 1200mm by 400mm and there is a base board joint in the middle.

I'm going to operate it from the front. 

 

Marc

IMG_20190714_221448904.jpg

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The slide switch can be mounted on small pieces of aluminium angle from B&Q so it sits under the point, A length of piano wire with a 90 degree bend, one end goes up through the slide switch into the point stretcher bar. the other end runs to the baseboard edge with a knob fitted so it can be pulled and pushed. You will need a wire support close to the slide switch to keep the wire in place.

Rgds

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 22/07/2019 at 17:51, Grovenor said:

Its very easy to make up a DIY version that will do the job, use DPDT slide switches for the frog switching and make up a linkage with rodding.

Connect to the switch by drilling through the black knob.

Rgds

May I add my "2 pence" by pointing out that any drilling through a  switch should be as high up as possible, as inside there is a linkage with a spring around it.

Edited by Judge Dread
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