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On 07/07/2019 at 15:26, LNWR18901910 said:

I am using Bachmann's 3F 0-6-0 Tender model to make a modern super-detailed loco-drive version of the Hornby James. That way, it would also be more RWS-accurate with a hint of the TVS flavour to it. I always do find Hornby's modern loco-drive models much more reliable for smooth running than the old tender-drive models.

 

Sorry - forgive my ignorance...what does "RWS-accurate" and "TVS flavour" mean?  I definitely agree about their current loco drive mechanisms.

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A plea for a bit of help here.

 

1. I'm trying to source a replacement chimney.  The one that came with the 3F body was a large rivet and so has to go - well in fact it didn't survive the removal of the moulded handrails...  Can anyone tell me if a Jinty chimney is the same as a 3F chimney?  I can find a supplier of a whitemetal Jinty chimney (247 Developments), but not one for the 3F tender loco.

 

2. Tender: I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that finding one for an outlay commensurate with the budget for this loco is nigh on impossible.  I have a GBL static model of a Midland Compound - in other words, it's a copy of the Bachmann mouldings.  Is that underframe correct / correct enough for a Deeley tender (I'd turn it into a rolling chassis and scratchbuild a Deeley style body)?

 

Thanks in advance!!

Edited by plasticbasher
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Actually - ignore about the chimney.

 

Called the chap at 247 Developments.  Neither of us knew for sure, but as he pointed out...a Jinty and a 3F were much the same "under the hood", so I've bought one (it's only a few quid with postage and comparison of the photos shows they are very similar to my eye).

 

So the only question I'd like some more learned input on is whether I can get away with using a GBL Compound tender as the starting point for a Deeley tender!

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  • 3 months later...

Hi Everyone,

 

After a bit of a hiatus, I'm back and keen to crack on with the 3F.

 

The big problem when I left this at the start of the summer was the tender.  I refuse to use the old Triang tender as it doesn't even look like the real thing.  I also won't attempt to buy a Bachmann one as the price will be too high.

 

So:

1.  I bought a resin moulding of a Johnson 4F tender body from Golden Arrow models (intended for the Airfix / Hornby 4F).  This was £12 as I explained what I was trying to do to Chris Meacher at Golden Arrow; he kindly dug out an imperfect casting and gave me a few  quid off. 

2.  As mentioned previously somewhere in this thread I also have the complete tender from a GBL Midland Compound (in other words a 'rip off' of the Bachmann moulding.  The underframe is the part I will use here.

 

Both the above will be combined and hacked around to create a "reasonably" realistic tender.

 

I have been looking around for a drawing of the Deeley tender that was most commonly coupled to the 3Fs, but have thusfar drawn a blank.  I can see the 4F Johnson tender is essentially the right shape, but it is definitely higher (and I think possibly longer) than the 3F's Deeley tender.

 

Request.  Can anyone either point me to a source of a suitable drawing (preferably in 4mm scale)?  Or alternatively, if anyone has a Bachmann 3F and a few minutes to spare, could you please give me a few key dimensions of the tender:

  • overall tender length (excluding buffers)
  • length of the tender body side
  • height of the tender body side (excluding the separate coal rails)

Those dimensions are really the only ones I believe I need

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

plasticbasher

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On 09/07/2019 at 22:35, daveyb said:

I have no idea if it would be accurate, but could you find an old Lima Crab tender? Bound to be cheap as it's so old and inaccurate (too wide).

I thought the problem (well one of them) with the Lima Crab wasn't the tender width, it was that the loco itself was too narrow.

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Hi Plastic Basher,

Try looking for Amercom train models. They produced a range of engines for the Great British locomotive magazine in 00. You can still buy the direct from the company. they have provided a whole host of bits and pieces for modellers here over the past few years. There is even a thread on this site in the magazine section all about them. you might find what you need from them.

This is the thread:

Amercoms web site:

http://www.amercom-hobby.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63

 

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  • 9 months later...

Hi All,

 

Some thread resurrection...after a few false starts (see some of the more recent postings from me in this thread) I finally have a tender..!

 

I was browsing job lots on eBay and say a lot of 7 tired and broken tenders.  One was unmistakably a somewhat hacked about Ratio Midland tender.  I bid £13.50 and won.

 

I think three of the other tenders are repairable - albeit of no particular use to me (but possibly saleable with a clean up).  The other three are probably too far gone for any real use.

 

Anyway, on to the point of this post.  The Ratio tender has been assembled very badly out of square  in two planes, with what appears to be a mix of superglue and plastic cement.  To be usable I need to take it apart and put it back together properly.  Has anyone got any special tips?

 

 

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If it's superglue, hot water is supposed to break it down.  If it's a metal item, dipping it in Nitromors will break down any glue and return the tender to a kit of parts.  However do NOT do this if the kit was plastic..... been there, done that, wiped up what was left of the loco body.

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Thanks Northmoor.  It's plastic (the maker is Ratio).

 

I soaked it for a couple of hours in the washing up water without much effect (other than letting me pop the piece of plastic off that was where the coal should be...oh...and getting rid of decades of dust!).

 

I then dropped it in the freezer and will see if that has done anything tomorrow morning.

 

I have a Plan B...I will carefully saw the sides off intact and use them as the basis for a semi-scratchbuilt replacement...

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Success...well mostly!

 

It must have been superglue used throughout as none of the plastic seems to have bonded, as it would have if a plastic solvent was used.

 

Method was soaking in warm soapy water for a couple of hours, then a good spell in the freezer followed by careful but firm bending, prying and separating with a sharpened screwdriver.

 

The sides and ends are pretty much all I intend on re-using after a bath in Mr Muscle to strip the paint off.

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Some more (slow) progress to report.

 

The bashed about Ratio tender has been reassembled into a rolling "wagon" that is an awful lot squarer than it was a couple of weeks ago.

 

I remove the moulded plastic bearings and added brass top-hat bearings and replaced the plastic wheel-sets with metal ones of unknown parentage (axle length is 26mm, diameter is 14mm).  Luckily, before assembling with glue, I realised I needed to pack the brass bearings out as the replacement wheelsets were too sloppy.  Small M2 washers were used on each bearing.

 

It actually rolls quite nicely now!

 

Next steps - top of the tender needs building, tender and loco body both need weighting and then the loco needs to lose the skirt under the boiler and have the missing chunk of cab roof replaced; finally details can start to be added.

 

 

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Edited by plasticbasher
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A little more progress today.

  • Tender buffers pared off.  I found some suitable sprung buffers which will be fitted to loco and tender.
  • Loco chimney finally installed - it's only taken me a year since I bought it from 247 Developments!!
  • Bits of old lead flashing added to bring the loco up to 212g and the tender to 78g.

 

Since the photo's were taken, I've also reinstated the top of the water tank and coal divider on the tender (using bits of plastic left over from the tender for no better reason than waste not, want not) and made an attempt to repair the extremely brittle coal rails.

 

Today's mistake was excessive / careless use of superglue.  I used builders' two-part "Mitre-Bond" which is great stuff (much better than the normal stuff you find in supermarkets), but I managed to block up about half of the holes I drilled for handrail knobs..!  

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Edited by plasticbasher
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I also recently obtained a copy of the December 1975 edition of Model Railways magazine from Ebay,  specifically because I discovered in my researching on 3F tenders (I was planning on scratch building) that it contained scale plans of the 6 wheel Johnson tenders as attached to 3Fs.

 

Unfortunately I discovered when the magazine arrived a few months ago (in much better condition than me...and we are of a pretty similar vintage!) that the drawings were reproduced to 7mm (O-Scale).

 

Today I spent a little time playing with the printer and managed to stitch together .pdf scans of both pages the plans appear on (it's actually a centre-spread).  After much trial and error I was able to print them out to 4mm scale - although maths says I should have reduced the image by 54%, my printer finally spat out exactly 4mm plans at 58%...go figure!

 

I now see my effort to carefully drill out the rear handrails on the Ratio tender may be a bit of a waste of effort as I think I probably need to fill those holes back in and drill for a total of 4 lamp-irons (photos will be googled for verification).  I can also see I need to scratch build some toolboxes for the tender too.

 

Anyway, if anyone would like:

1. A copy of the .pdf file for their own personal use, feel free to PM me.  The stitching of the two images is not 100% perfect, but when printed at 4mm scale it is almost imperceptible - see last photo.

2. The Model Railways magazine (for the cost of postage).  It also contains:

  • 7mm scale drawings of the Midland 2P (the ones with 7 foot drivers, but otherwise much like the Mainline / Dapol / Hornby ones but fitted with the Johnson tender).
  • 4mm drawings of the L&Y Director's Saloon.
  • Some wonderfully quaint English language usage.
  • Lots of adverts for stuff at what are today rather odd-looking price points (£3.46, £7.16, 87p, £4.84 etc).

 

plasticbasher

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Edited by plasticbasher
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  • 9 months later...

Just came across this interesting thread whilst googling about 4mm scale 3Fs, so I've given it a bump.

 

One of my lockdown projects has been to resurrect an ancient (schoolboy-era!) conversion of a Triang 3F to something rather more realistic as part of an old-fashioned kit-bashing exercise. Originally completed to run on what I then thought of as a "fine-scale" (!) 2-rail layout in the late 1960s/early 1970s, it has lain in storage for 50-odd years. In its resurrected state it now serves on my Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, with whose overall coarse scale it is much more in keeping.

 

Provenance as follows: 

  • Triang 3F body, much hacked about to remove the original boiler and replace it with a rolled plasticard one to allow daylight below; new cast smokebox door fitted 
  • Triang 0-6-0 chassis with the driving wheels replaced with Hornby Dublo ones
  • Body from a Ratio cast metal Johnson tender kit, mounted on an old Mainline/Replica Fowler tender chassis - the Mainline wheels run well through Dublo pointwork
  • Body fittings from various sources, including most recently a tender filler cap from 247 Developments

The whole thing has been sprayed with Halfords grey primer, then matt black - the latter actually gives it an ex-works sheen. It has been transferred up as Lancaster Green Ayre's 43502. The cabside numerals are probably slightly larger than they should be for an LMR loco - so we'll assume she's made an unlikely visit to Darlington Works for a recent overhaul. Next step is to arrange a 3-rail collector, which I'll fashion from copper strip and steel drawing pin heads.   

 

I think the end result captures the general character without undue pretensions towards accuracy. The idea was to replicate the charm of a 1950s Hornby Dublo loco.  

 

David C.

       

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