RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2021 it says something about my day that this little exchange is my highlight so far. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: it says something about my day that this little exchange is my highlight so far. Mine is receiving a book through the post I'd just (as in 5 minutes earlier) filed an "item not delivered" report for on eBay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, D1051 said: The point I'm making is, I was merely pointing out that when it comes to replicating a loco in model form, they, like other manufacturers, visit a preserved loco and measure it up. Ok, got that one. I wasn’t sure what you meant by “ CMDG locomotives “. I have no idea what that FLA is . No need to “ take offence “ as per your PM you sent. Edited January 9, 2021 by rob D2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 CMDG - Central Manchester Diesel Group, Central Manchester Dogging Group, Celtic Mountain Dancing Group. It could mean lots of things.... Ah found it 'Cotswold Mainline Diesel Group' - based at the Toddington on the GWR. 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Que - someone now posting a picture of a dogging scene on their layout with a Highland terrier adorned 47 in the background. ....I think I will leave this discussion before it gets even more surreal. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, D1051 said: FYI Rob with the 26and 45 they did both CMDG locomotives were visited over the years And still they managed to get the shape wrong on the 45... Edited January 10, 2021 by YesTor 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I agree that the cantrail grilles and bufferbeam cowls don't look quite right, so I've dug out MLI 180 and done some comparing. I acknowledge that this is an early EP and Heljan will have been all over this, but FWIW here's my tuppence-worth: First penny - the cantrail curvature actually looks about right but the grilles themselves extend too far down; they have the correct number of slats but look too 'open'. IMO they need compressing vertically, up the equivalent of one opening from the bottom and also one down from the top as currently there appears to be insufficient space for the rainstrips. Which makes me think that, like the cab door detail, this area is still a work in progress. Second penny - the top corners of the bufferbeam cowls are too curved; they should be as sharp as the bottom corners. Tuppence spent! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, YesTor said: Yet they still managed to get the shape wrong on the 45... I feel there's something a bit English Electric about the outer windscreens..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2021 Morning all, I agree that there is something not quite right with the cantrail grilles. The body side windows also look to be too far down the body side. On the model the bottom of these lines up with the bottom of the cab side windows whereas on the prototype they are higher up. Possibly a consequence of the cantrail issues? PJ10 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, PJ10 said: The body side windows also look to be too far down the body side. On the model the bottom of these lines up with the bottom of the cab side windows whereas on the prototype they are higher up. Possibly a consequence of the cantrail issues? Good spot. It amazes me that errors like that make it past CAD, surely some simple lines drawn between key points let the basic positioning be checked? The side windows on the Heljan 33 are also slightly out which means liveries like Dutch show up the error. Roy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 All well and good - yes definitely some valid scrutiny by prototypically clued up professional Duff enthusiasts which this is their ""bag" but some really not so - in as much as being that insignificant it borders on obsessive rivetty pettiness. I'm trawling over the same old ground again! and yes if media platforms like this didn't exist and it was good old snail mail and stamps things wouldn't get highlighted and a half decent model wouldn't be produced - but I really wish this thread could be filtered out summarized and passed on to Heljan for the things that really do matter leaving individuals to glue on 0.002" strips of Evergreen on lamp brackets or here there and wherever they want. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said: All well and good - yes definitely some valid scrutiny by prototypically clued up professional Duff enthusiasts which this is their ""bag" but some really not so - in as much as being that insignificant it borders on obsessive rivetty pettiness. I'm trawling over the same old ground again! and yes if media platforms like this didn't exist and it was good old snail mail and stamps things wouldn't get highlighted and a half decent model wouldn't be produced - but I really wish this thread could be filtered out summarized and passed on to Heljan for the things that really do matter leaving individuals to glue on 0.002" strips of Evergreen on lamp brackets or here there and wherever they want. I assume from that you are counting me as a rivet counter for pointing out that the lamp brackets have no stop, despite me saying that it was an easy fix with microstrip? Perhaps you should read all of a post before seeming to criticise? Roy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 An easy fix for you Ray as I know you are capable. But really it's not a major issue is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Foden Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said: All well and good - yes definitely some valid scrutiny by prototypically clued up professional Duff enthusiasts which this is their ""bag" but some really not so - in as much as being that insignificant it borders on obsessive rivetty pettiness. I'm trawling over the same old ground again! and yes if media platforms like this didn't exist and it was good old snail mail and stamps things wouldn't get highlighted and a half decent model wouldn't be produced - but I really wish this thread could be filtered out summarized and passed on to Heljan for the things that really do matter leaving individuals to glue on 0.002" strips of Evergreen on lamp brackets or here there and wherever they want. I do wonder how much of it is down to angles of the photo etc. No disrespect intended to anyone who notices these ‘inaccuracies’, but with every release the same comments can be found, curvatures is wrong, windows too big / small / low / high, headlight too thick / thin etc, I’m yet to notice any sample release where the common consensus is ‘yeah, about right that is’. I remember before the plague started standing looking at a pre release of the class 59 on the Dapol stand, and hearing two different people getting quite animated in their disagreement of the size of the exhaust ports, which leads me to wonder how much of it is perspective over scaled accuracy? Leave alone the fact that things can look rather different when a livery is applied. As I’ve said, I mean no disrespect to anyone who wishes to model micro millimetre accuracy, but I’d hate to be that modeller. I guess I’m too easily pleased, but if it looks like a 47, and feels like a 47, my mind tells me it’ll do a good job representing a 47. 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said: An easy fix for you Ray as I know you are capable. But really it's not a major issue is it? No, and I didn't say it was, I was actually commenting on the fact that they were brass which I thought was good. Roy Edited January 10, 2021 by Roy Langridge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 158 productions Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 However good this model will be, it’s price now means that the standard level of scrutiny has been raised 10 fold. I’m hoping this will be the definitive 47 for 00 gauge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Foden said: I do wonder how much of it is down to angles of the photo etc. No disrespect intended to anyone who notices these ‘inaccuracies’, but with every release the same comments can be found, curvatures is wrong, windows too big / small / low / high, headlight too thick / thin etc, I’m yet to notice any sample release where the common consensus is ‘yeah, about right that is’. But misplaced windows cause problems downstream. Look at this photo of a two-tone green 47 (D1647). If the side windows do line up with the bottom of the cab windows, this "minor error" stands out like a sore thumb as the light green starts at that same position and there should dark green below the side windows, and quite a bit of it. Yes, we may only be talking a couple of millimetres or so, but that is huge on a model. Same with a Civil/Dutch 47. As I commented, Heljan Class 33 windows seem to be incorrectly positioned as the frame runs to the top of the grey rather than there being yellow bodyside below the window (Heljan 33026 @ Hattons and 33026 on Flickr). It is not rocket science to draw a line across from the bottom of the cab windows, and position side windows appropriately between that an the grills. Roy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Maybe Heljan should release one in kit form? and the resulting builds shown on here now that would make interesting reading Manufacturers shouldn't become complacent the Hattons 66 project and pitfalls being a perfect example but sometimes we should be grateful for what we have considering some toy train intricacies are nearing watch making territory. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 14 hours ago, D1051 said: Whats DOGGING got to do with model railways or railways ? I have to be careful here and see your point in a family orientated forum such as this but didn't Preiser release something high on the smutometer with x rated office goings on*? (*Not suitable for Era 7 and below) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Crisis Rail said: All well and good - yes definitely some valid scrutiny by prototypically clued up professional Duff enthusiasts which this is their ""bag" but some really not so - in as much as being that insignificant it borders on obsessive rivetty pettiness. I'm trawling over the same old ground again! and yes if media platforms like this didn't exist and it was good old snail mail and stamps things wouldn't get highlighted and a half decent model wouldn't be produced - but I really wish this thread could be filtered out summarized and passed on to Heljan for the things that really do matter leaving individuals to glue on 0.002" strips of Evergreen on lamp brackets or here there and wherever they want. Yes , but that’s disingenuous , as everyone has their definition of what counts . If something is slightly out why not mention it at the same time as anything else - fix it all ! the fact these are test pre production shots makes me think they won’t be altering anything anyway 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, rob D2 said: Yes , but that’s disingenuous , as everyone has their definition of what counts . If something is slightly out why not mention it at the same time as anything else - fix it all ! the fact these are test pre production shots makes me think they won’t be altering anything anyway I think one or two "slightly outs" were mentioned to Ben a while back not heard much off him since..... like I said optionally release it as a kit so everyone can have a go at one - do all their mods to whatever standard they think they should be and post up the resulting efforts on here. Everyone will be happy with their own perceptions and wait for the replies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2021 To me it looks OK, not perfect of course but I am much more concerned with running qualities (especially smooth very slow running) and general mechanical design under the skin, I’d rather have a model that looks pretty good and runs perfectly (and is designed to take decent decoder/speakers easily) than a perfect looking model that has issues on the track. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, boxbrownie said: To me it looks OK, not perfect of course but I am much more concerned with running qualities (especially smooth very slow running) and general mechanical design under the skin, I’d rather have a model that looks pretty good and runs perfectly (and is designed to take decent decoder/speakers easily) than a perfect looking model that has issues on the track. With an RRP of of £220 I would expect both, and that is not a moan about price, just a statement of expectation. Roy 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted January 10, 2021 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, rob D2 said: the fact these are test pre production shots makes me think they won’t be altering anything anyway To quote the message sent with the photos, "A number of issues have been identified for correction and/or modification before it can be signed off for production. ", which would suggest corrections are going to be made. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: To quote the message sent with the photos, "A number of issues have been identified for correction and/or modification before it can be signed off for production. ", which would suggest corrections are going to be made. Hi Phil, The problem is we tend to never be told what those identified corrections are - if we knew then those comments may not be made. As it is, without knowledge we are going to comment in the hopes that if Heljan have missed something, they are alerted to it. As it stands, it is a half way house - we see what is the current state, see errors / omissions but never really get any feedback on what is still to be addressed. As such, the value of the showing the EP is diminished. Roy 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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