Raffles Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 ...and back again to the 47. (Sorry) I think the main issue is the square appearance of the windscreens. A couple of weeks back we were moving some spares around, part of which involved moving some spare windscreens we have for '105/'376/'746 and I remarked to our CM&EE that it was an odd shape but there must be a reason for it's design. It would have been much easier to put glass in with straight edges, I'm sure. I'm up at Toddington on Sunday so if the weather is nice I'll try and get some photos of the glass and that'll explain it better than I can with my words. Now then, back to Das Boot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2011 Looks like its the same problem as before....Tower have painted the lower green slightly lower than the prototype, you can see it runs just over the recessed foot step....and on the prototype it runs through the SS kickplate. Still looks good though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It will do for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks for the info on your window etches Dave. If anyone else asks I will let them know they are specific to the Heljan model, thanks. By the way has anyone used all your Heljan 47 upgrade bits? Would like to see a picture of one with everything on it. Brian - We have sold about 50-55 of the complete sets for the 47 + many more cab interior sets & a few bogie sets [other than to those who have the complete works] but I've never seen any of them finished by customers - mind you we have sold 150+ of our Class 08 Sets for the Bachmann brass job - and I've only ever seen one or two of those finished! Remember that it is thought that only one in five of kits sold ever get built [even less for plastic kits] and of those, maybe one in five get built anything like correctly and you'd only be expecting to see around two Heljan 47s nicely finished with all the sets on!!! Regards, David Parkins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC126 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Now please do not think I am trying to stir it up, but I really cannot see the dimensional problems that seem to be talked about so much. That's an excellent comparison David - thanks for posting. Certainly from that angle I can see very little difference in the body shapes. The main thing that I noticed was that the horizontal handrail below the windows should follow the nose line, rather than being straight across. Also the handrail is slightly too long, and the lower vertical grab rails are also correspondingly too far out. Does these contribute to the difference that everybody sees but can't quite define? Should be very easy to fix if so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2011 Remember that it is thought that only one in five of kits sold ever get built What a cracking stat. And its nearer one in ten excluding Brian! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 And its nearer one in ten excluding Brian! Behave will you It is such a shame that most kits don't get done. I would just love to see a 47 with everything added on it. Oh well maybe I ought to do another one? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 47107 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Oh well maybe I ought to do another one? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Yeeeeeeeees! With a Stratford grey roof ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 ...and back again to the 47. (Sorry) I think the main issue is the square appearance of the windscreens. A couple of weeks back we were moving some spares around, part of which involved moving some spare windscreens we have for '105/'376/'746 and I remarked to our CM&EE that it was an odd shape but there must be a reason for it's design. It would have been much easier to put glass in with straight edges, I'm sure. I'm up at Toddington on Sunday so if the weather is nice I'll try and get some photos of the glass and that'll explain it better than I can with my words. Now then, back to Das Boot. Now thats interesting, I've always thought the 47 and 56 windscreen upper and lower edges were curved slightly, the Heljan windscreen isnt, like many others here, it 'feels' wrong and I cannot place my finger on it either, other than the previously mentioned side window height and perhaps a little too much metal work above the windscreens between them and the gutter. The 47 has got to be one of the hardest shapes to reproduce in scale models. I'd love to see photo proof of the 47 screen glass, I think the 56 is identical, much of the rest of the cab basic structure is as well. Regarding kits, I have three MMP....yup none finsihed yet , two not even started!, I wish I had Brians speed and tenacity LOL. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yeeeeeeeees! With a Stratford grey roof ! Brian, you know you want to....... B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressaldar Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Brian, you know you want to....... B) Dave - you mean.......we know he is going to............................................... regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Here's a starter for 10 prior to this weekend's measuring frenzy: It's a little crude, somewhat slapdash and higly implausible but it goes some way to show what I have suspected. Apologies for the 4mm intrusion here Brian, if you would like this in a thread of it's own, just say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 No problem showing 4mm front if it's still to do with the discussion on here Raffles. Here's a picture of my DJH 47578 that shows their screens have a slight curve on the bottom as per prototype. By the way I do not want to do another Heljan 47 with all the trimmings on it, honest Somebody else do it, please, I beg you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 No problem showing 4mm front if it's still to do with the discussion on here Raffles. Here's a picture of my DJH 47578 that shows their screens have a slight curve on the bottom as per prototype. By the way I do not want to do another Heljan 47 with all the trimmings on it, honest Somebody else do it, please, I beg you. The DJH Class 47 has about the best cab screen I've seen in any scale, there appears to be a subtle curve to the top as well. I've started a thread specifically to this issue, can I post your image there as well ?. Just got my Xmas bonus, may grab a Heljan 47 LOL. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yeeeeeeeees! With a Stratford grey roof ! No, in triple grey with snow ploughs 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Getting back on topic for a while I have now painted the castings added to my 33/1 conversion. I will not be weathering it for a while as Pete Harvey is doing some etched replacement steps for the bogies so I will wait for these to be attached first. I have also painted the solebars blue as per 33's. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2011 Either everyone is out being romantic tonight or busy reshaping their 47 cab windows but since no one else has said it, that 33/1 is looking pretty good! 4TC conversion next?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Has anyone painted a loco brown and "weathered" the base color in? Not quite the same but I often tint livery colours if the prototype was suffering badly from fading or was badly discoloured. If you look at my Class 31 thread I've used this method here - Railmatch Railfreight Grey with a couple of drops of rail grey to lighten it. I only mixe small quantities fioor sprpaying as four mil' locos don't require a lot for each coat so for larger scales some experimentation would be nessecary. In photos only showing the loco the effect isn't that obvious as there's no reference to the 'correct' shade, but I hope the end result looks ok. I have a couple of BR Blue locos to do soon and I'll use this method with them as both are rather faded. In some cases I add a touch of freight brown or even a drop of green to greys for some more recent prototypes where their roofs have faded during prolonged storage outside. If you can find my class 37 thread on the old forum 37 677 was treated in exactly this way. Don't know if I've helped with this or just made it sound too complicated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Getting back on topic for a while I have now painted the castings added to my 33/1 conversion. I will not be weathering it for a while as Pete Harvey is doing some etched replacement steps for the bogies so I will wait for these to be attached first. I have also painted the solebars blue as per 33's. Hi Brian, I am a newbie here, so I hope that this Post comes out okay We had a chat at Brizzle about your wonderful Heljan 33, I was just wondering - and think that I can see from your photos that you have modified one of the fuel tanks (from rectangular to 'L' shape) - did your Heljan 33 come with two fully 'rectangular' fuel-tanks? Thanks and all the best, 'CME & Bottlewasher' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Not quite the same but I often tint livery colours if the prototype was suffering badly from fading or was badly discoloured. If you look at my Class 31 thread I've used this method here - Railmatch Railfreight Grey with a couple of drops of rail grey to lighten it. I only mixe small quantities fioor sprpaying as four mil' locos don't require a lot for each coat so for larger scales some experimentation would be nessecary. In photos only showing the loco the effect isn't that obvious as there's no reference to the 'correct' shade, but I hope the end result looks ok. I have a couple of BR Blue locos to do soon and I'll use this method with them as both are rather faded. In some cases I add a touch of freight brown or even a drop of green to greys for some more recent prototypes where their roofs have faded during prolonged storage outside. If you can find my class 37 thread on the old forum 37 677 was treated in exactly this way. Don't know if I've helped with this or just made it sound too complicated! Hi Guys, Not brown, yet with my goods/freight stock I endeavour to paint with faded tones before weathering etc. and I also look to the colour rather than the tin lid description etc......I hope that I am not teaching 'granny to such eggs', so to speak! So I would say go for it!! I hope these attachments demo such..... ATB, CME & Bottlewasher 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Welcome to the mad house CME. I think we need to see some more of your weathering on here On my 33105 I did cut the recess in the tank as the Heljan model does not have it. For some reason all the preserved 33's don't have it either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi brian, your 33105 is looking great, be nice when it's weathered. I was over in the UK this time last year and had a day at Swanage as 33111 was out, my favourite 33/1. A friend of mine has had a bit to do with the restoration and told me it has the unmodified tanks. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Thanks for the info PCM. Must try and get down to Swanage for their diesel gala and take some pictures of the tank. I don't suppose your friend knows the size of the buffers on these 33/1? As was mentioned earlier they are larger than standard 33's. I think they are the same size as 47's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Welcome to the mad house CME. I think we need to see some more of your weathering on here On my 33105 I did cut the recess in the tank as the Heljan model does not have it. For some reason all the preserved 33's don't have it either. Hi Brian, Many thanks for the warm welcome - I hope to follow up with some more photos in due course when I get used to the site. I know I have said this before, I am a friend of Richard (Didcot) I know his Dad and Bro. pretty well and they are good mates of my friend (and old neighbour)....I also met up with another of your colleagues and his lad on the Perry Grove last year (the guys chatting to you at BRM/STEAM when we all tried to help you with the Delrin on your wonderful 'spaceship').....'tis a small world I am glad to hear that you have come to the same conclusions as me re the '33's, I spent quite a while photographing 'pickled' 33's only to realise that they all seemed to be fitted with the rectangular tanks/larger tanks on both sides I know that I am beeing cheeky, yet what did you have to do to incorporate the cutaway? I have a couple of 33's I hope to model......one GFYE and one GSYE.. BTW, doesnt the DJH 47 look grand.......I think it must be one of the best so far shapewise.......I have the Heljan 47, hope to go GFYE and I have the cab and bogie detail kits from David at MMP and like you I hope to do a namer......I hope to make the sideframes removeable (especially with ref to the reliability of Heljan gearsets) although there is some confusion over the instructions for the fitting of such.......needs more thought and we are layout building at the moment so I wont hold my breath. Just had a skim through your Blog/Thread - fantastic work! BTW are those etched steps for the Heljan HYMEKs widely available or a one off for yourself? Thanks again. ATB, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi brian, your 33105 is looking great, be nice when it's weathered. I was over in the UK this time last year and had a day at Swanage as 33111 was out, my favourite 33/1. A friend of mine has had a bit to do with the restoration and told me it has the unmodified tanks. Cheers Peter. Hi PCM So there is a restored one with unmoded tanks....please tell me that I am right in thinking that one side has the fully rectangular tank and one side has the tank with the cut away 'L' shape (I have never seen a photo of an in service 33 with both sides being shown on the same page ). The old 7mm'ish Lima 33's had both sides modelled with cutaway tanks and the new Heljan - of course - has the fully rectangular tanks on both sides. I have been told this was due to tooling costs, yet the 4mm one's had unmoded tanks.. all a bit confusing! (the poor old modeller of 7mm gets the short straw again ). I agree that Brian has done a cracking job on his. CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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