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Designing a layout - where to start?


codek
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So, i have a space approximately 4x4m. Planning to model in oo due to existing kit!

I'm thinking of running it around the outside of the space, with a large-ish well in the centre.

But where to start with the actual layout?  Started playing with anyrail but realised I need more inspiration/ideas first I think!

Area of interest is NSE, (maybe maidenhead!?) whether or not that has implications!?

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The first place to start is the real thing. Lots of looking at this may well lead to inspiration. Alternatively look at lots of plan books. 

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 Agree with Kris, also look at layouts on here , other websites or at shows.  It might help to know what type of trains you want to run, i.e shunting or watching the trains go by, freight or passenger.

Dont be afraid to post your ideas or plans on here.

Steve.

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27 minutes ago, Kris said:

The first place to start is the real thing. Lots of looking at this may well lead to inspiration. Alternatively look at lots of plan books. 

 

Good stuff.  I already picked up the british rail plan books for the region, i'll start there.

 

Regarding play - Got a young son so there'll have to be a round and round element to it hehe. I think it would be nice to get a degree of elevation into it too, never done that before and it does seem to add something imho!

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To break the deadlock, why not start with the concept of a circuit, with a terminus branching off one side, and a FY branching off the other?

 

It might not be where you end-up, but it will get the mental processes going.

 

And, personally I would forget fancy software for a while, and start with a pencil, a ruler, a sheet of paper, and a Peco catalogue, which contains basic info about point-geometry.

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One obvious option for a roundy layout of that size with multiple levels is the good old looped 8. Or a Freezeresque folded dumbell if you can afford the space in a corner to put the return loops. Either can give you a much longer run than a straight circuit, and thus give a better impression of your trains going to/coming from somewhere. 

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4M x 4M is a reasonable area but a bit short on length for 4mm scale without a few design "tricks".

 

I think that Nearholmer is onto a good solution with his idea of terminus to continuous run to fiddleyard (or reverse loop). With 4M width to play with, the terminus and fiddleyard can be on a central peninsular leaving the edges of the room free for an uncluttered continuous run.

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Before you do anything l else thing through and list what you want your railway to do - the sort of area (e.g. town, country. docks, factory etc).  Do you want lots of shunting or do you want to watch trains going past?  Do you want just passenger trains or  just freight trains or a mixture?  Do you want any specialised types of passenger or frteight trains?  If you want passenger trains are you going to have a station?  and so on.

Then consider very carefully the period in railway history you wish to model and the specific part of the country/railway company/BR Region.

 

Having made those choices go scouting round the';net and in books for illustrations of what you have in mind (which might cause you to change your mind, sorry).  Look at old OS maps online to frighten yourself by how much room the full size railway takes up.  Then rethink what you want.

 

Then get something like track layout planning software, or even just download and copy Peco point templates off the 'net and start laying out some paper or electronic versions of what you want - never forgetting things like train and vehicle lengths as you go.  Never, ever, be tempted to put in too much of anything - that's the classic first mistake we all made.

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Also a factor in layout planning is era. The modern railway is rather simpler than the steam age railway.

 

As the OP already has a collection of rolling stock, this may influence the design.

 

As someone already mentioned, CJ Freezer plans in the Peco books may be a good start. Take one of CJF's designs that does terminus to continuous run to terminus in 10' x 6' and expand it into that bigger space and one could have a very effective layout.

 

Another big factor to layout design is the access to this 4m x 4m space. Is it a room with a door? Or a loft with hatch access.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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35 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Also a factor in layout planning is era. The modern railway is rather simpler than the steam age railway.

 

As the OP already has a collection of rolling stock, this may influence the design.

 

As someone already mentioned, CJ Freezer plans in the Peco books may be a good start. Take one of CJF's designs that does terminus to continuous run to terminus in 10' x 6' and expand it into that bigger space and one could have a very effective layout.

 

Another big factor to layout design is the access to this 4m x 4m space. Is it a room with a door? Or a loft with hatch access.

There are a couple of exactly this sort in Plans for Larger Layouts. Prune the loco depots and turn the goods yards into engineers sidings or car parks and you could have a lot of fun in the NSE era.

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Sorry, only just noticed the reference to NSE in the OP.

 

The problem with a square space is that it does not give much space on straights. Even if you use a fairly tight visible radius curve of 30" as a minimum, there will only be about a maximum of 7' (2m15) as any sort of straight line - and that is not enough for any sort of station, never mind a Maidenhead.

 

If the OP can not use the central area for a terminus (or termini) on a peninsular, any sort of station on the outer circuit would need to be a "half station" with a station building on a road overbridge to form the scenic break. Fortunately, that is quite a common feature in the NSE area, particularly in London, and on the GW main line.

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Seconding Stationmaster; having established the space available and era/area, think about what you want from the layout.  Do you want to watch the trains passing by, do you want to shunt, do need a specific scenic approach, is there a feature that is absolutely essential?  Or is is some sort of combination of the above?   

 

Having determined the parameters, you need to devise a plan that suits your requirements and is a compromise (all layouts are compromises) acceptable to you.  4’x4’ probably precludes HSTs, but not dmus or short freights...

 

Then it’s easy; all you have to do is build it!  It’s much easier than trying to build it before you’ve sorted the above issues out!

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Andover in NSE days could be interesting. There's the 50 hauled trains to Exeter, 33s on trains to Exeter when the 50 inevitably fails and on their own runs to Salisbury, I think DEMUs went that way too from time to time, and there's a lovely relatively compact freight facility behind the up platform, plus the Ludgershall traffic shunting onto the branch.

 

You'd probably need 16m length rather than 4, but I reckon there's scope to do something with a similar kind of station.

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At some point in the planning process you'll have to accurately measure the space so you may as well do that now to avoid nasty surprises later on. Survey where doors/hatches are, where you need access to windows and any pipes or boxing that might intrude on the layout. Then draw that all up to scale in your design software.

 

Once you've considered all the good advice in this thread, don't be afraid of the blank computer screen. Just plonk the desired elements down roughly and join them up in the most obvious way. The bits that don't work, the ugly bits and the boring bits will then be obvious and you can start to adjust and refine the design. (Or throw it away and start again, of course!)

 

I suggest keeping it simple - keep the central area clear so that it's easy for you and visitors to move around. Run railway around the outside but don't feel constrained to stick to the square - cut one of the corners to create a long sweeping area for your big station, viaduct or whatever you want to do.

 

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Among the things you’ll need to think about when creating your list of criteria is whether you are most heavily into operation, or most heavily into prototypical appearance.

 

This is important because, even with what is a fairly generous space for 00, if you decide to focus heavily on exact scale, you won’t fit a huge amount in, for the simple reason that railways are long, sprawly things. The Freezer approach tends towards lots of operational possibilities, but severe compromises on lengths of stations/trains and quite tight curves, whereas the Rice approach tends more towards scale, but to modelling bits of stations and rather limited operational possibilities. Neither is right or wrong, they are just different, and some of the best layouts steer a middle course.

 

Finding prototype inspirations with short trains always helps, which is why Scottish prototypes are popular. With DEMU or EMU that’s also possible in NSE territory, but there were very few short loco-hauled trains on NSE ..... a few in the Salisbury area maybe. The Oxted Lines had eight coach loco-hauled, which you might be able to represent with six cars, or the Weymouth line if you like 4-TC. The loco-hauled NSE trains out of Paddington, Euston, and Liverpool Street were long rakes, ten or twelve cars IIRC.

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I usually start with a scene or photos which interest me like these images of Denaby Main level crossing. Photo 1 - Photo 2. I'll then go over to the Old Maps website to see if I can find a decent large scale map of the area at a time when Britain's railways had more sidings, industrial offshoots and branch lines. A scale of 1-2500 has sufficient detail to be of use. Here's a screen shot of the Denaby Main crossing map. I then simplify and edit by working out what bits of the place are important to capturing its character and what I can leave out. Generally I find that the most successful designs are those where the editing has been the most focussed.

 

1129605366_oldmapsdenaby.jpg.e8d6ab71cfb98d594a0ccd2a698d0abd.jpg

 

I'm not for one minute suggesting that you go and make a model of Denaby Main crossing, I've just used it to illustrate my belief that you have to pick a location or setting which captures your interest, edit it down so that you focus attention on the bits which give it character. It's perfectly possible to take bits of the real world and blend them into a believable fictional place but the aim should be that it looks like it could have existed rather than Toytown in Anyshire.

 

 

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How much of the room do you need clear for other purposed?  Dining Table, Bed, Bath, WC?  4m X 4m or 13 X 13 ft gives scope for reversing loops and a terminus with unobstructed walk in access which may suit a NSE era line. Almost everything NSE era can get round  2nd Radius curves. Equally spirals in one corner or both are do able .

Look at other layout plans, the CJ Freezer books are brilliant but generally pre 1970 era, but also look at US railroad magazines as they often have this size of layout, though to them its a mini layout, as well as brilliant walk in designs which could suit you.

That said I reckon a high level terminus and continuous run would work and as its NSE so no awkward set track shy steam locos with dodgy pulling power except the odd steam special perhaps a return loop could be fitted in in one corner. Something like my doodles.

2 trains in the same direction can arrive (and depart)  from the Junction.  Shuttles can run from junction to terminus .  Trains can shunt at terminus, sidings are purely indicative of where they could go.   Track above return loop would need to be as low as possible, about 65 to 70 mm track top to track top,1881967621_4X4b.png.2db7da9f5015f4260c3500daf45deb5c.png

 

 

4 X 4 c.png

4 X 4 c.png

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5 hours ago, Neil said:

I usually start with a scene or photos which interest me like these images of Denaby Main level crossing. Photo 1 - Photo 2. I'll then go over to the Old Maps website to see if I can find a decent large scale map of the area at a time when Britain's railways had more sidings, industrial offshoots and branch lines. A scale of 1-2500 has sufficient detail to be of use. Here's a screen shot of the Denaby Main crossing map. I then simplify and edit by working out what bits of the place are important to capturing its character and what I can leave out. Generally I find that the most successful designs are those where the editing has been the most focussed.

 

1129605366_oldmapsdenaby.jpg.e8d6ab71cfb98d594a0ccd2a698d0abd.jpg

 

I'm not for one minute suggesting that you go and make a model of Denaby Main crossing, I've just used it to illustrate my belief that you have to pick a location or setting which captures your interest, edit it down so that you focus attention on the bits which give it character. It's perfectly possible to take bits of the real world and blend them into a believable fictional place but the aim should be that it looks like it could have existed rather than Toytown in Anyshire.

 

 

 

That seems sound advice, have you done that with micro layouts as well? I'm planning my next layout and admire how people build things and you can identify the location as soon as you see it even if its not an exact copy.

Steve.

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Pretty much yes, though these days I have a pretty instinctive feel for what would constitute an attractive scene so I may just choose a place I like, take the key elements from it and then shoehorn a railway into that scene. My Belgian layout Vischkaai would be an example of this. It comes from holiday memories and incorporates bits of Ghent without being a slavish copy.

 

1164251989_vis01.jpg.ad266cbb43a563ca206b06aeb6ddb644.jpg

 

207956188_vis02.jpg.7fb8e7fe68216aaadda725ae9b7843a1.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Wow some amazing replies, just working through it all now!

 

It is in a loft, however the loft is bigger than the allocated space, so there's no issue about entry etc. the 4x4 space (possibly more at one side) is unobstructed other than working with an existing beam.

 

I'm not overly bothered about trying to replicate full length hst's etc - as i know that in oo that's pretty darned hard. I hadn't realised the station would need so much space though. I guess it comes down to number of coaches etc. 

 

Again thanks, continuing the research now. I'll be back :)

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Do what I did 40 years ago, list what you want then go for it!  I wanted a terminus for 6 coach expresses, semaphore and colour light signals, a continuous run representing the WCML with OLE, steam shed, diesel shed, marshalling yard and a reversing loop.  And all this with a pencil, tape measure and patterns for the curved platforms.

 

Look on Google at my 00 gauge DCC layout 'Crewlisle'.  It is 2.6M x 2.3M with three interconnected  levels. The high level has a 4 platform terminus to handle 6 coach expresses, steam shed, diesel shed and marshalling yard.  The mid level represents the WCML with OLE and the low level is a reversing loop incorporating 1.5M cassettes replacing the standard fiddle yard.  Each cassette can hold a loco + 4 coaches or 10 short wheelbase wagons.  Minimum radius is second radius, normally in the tunnels.

 

I run a total of 52 BR Standard and ex-LMS locos (mixture of steam diesel and electric), 65 passenger/parcel coaches and 112 goods wagons.  At exhibitions I run a minimum of two trains simultaneously and sometimes as many as four.  It was built for entertainment.  That is why it has appeared at the NEC five times and for my exhibition circuit swansong at the NEC next year.

 

Anyone wanting a more detailed description, I can send them a PM via RMWeb.

 

Peter

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7 hours ago, Crewlisle said:

Do what I did 40 years ago, list what you want then go for it!  I wanted a terminus for 6 coach expresses, semaphore and colour light signals, a continuous run representing the WCML with OLE, steam shed, diesel shed, marshalling yard and a reversing loop.  And all this with a pencil, tape measure and patterns for the curved platforms.

 

Look on Google at my 00 gauge DCC layout 'Crewlisle'.  It is 2.6M x 2.3M with three interconnected  levels. The high level has a 4 platform terminus to handle 6 coach expresses, steam shed, diesel shed and marshalling yard.  The mid level represents the WCML with OLE and the low level is a reversing loop incorporating 1.5M cassettes replacing the standard fiddle yard.  Each cassette can hold a loco + 4 coaches or 10 short wheelbase wagons.  Minimum radius is second radius, normally in the tunnels.

 

I run a total of 52 BR Standard and ex-LMS locos (mixture of steam diesel and electric), 65 passenger/parcel coaches and 112 goods wagons.  At exhibitions I run a minimum of two trains simultaneously and sometimes as many as four.  It was built for entertainment.  That is why it has appeared at the NEC five times and for my exhibition circuit swansong at the NEC next year.

 

Anyone wanting a more detailed description, I can send them a PM via RMWeb.

 

Peter

And it's a great layout to watch at exhibitions!

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