Ratio plastic loco kits

[Captain Kernow]

I'm just curious.

 

Whatever happened to the Ratio plastic kits for the Midland 2-4-0 and 4-4-0 locos?

 

They're clearly not part of the range now.

 

Thanks.

 

[melmoth]

Wasn't part of the problem with them that they had plastic chassis?

[gwrrob]

9 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I'm just curious.

 

Whatever happened to the Ratio plastic kits for the Midland 2-4-0 and 4-4-0 locos?

 

They're clearly not part of the range now.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pop down to the factory in Buckfastleigh and ask them Tim.

 

[Steamport Southport]

They were revamped at one point with proper chassis by Perseverance. Mid 1980s I think.

 

You can quite often pick them up on eBay and at exhibitions for a reasonable price. This one is at the top end of reasonable. I've seen them go for less than £50 complete with wheels and motor/gears.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RATIO-OO-LMS-MR-JOHNSON-2-4-0-LOCO-TENDER-KIT-INC-WHEELS-MOTOR-/303214922157?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c20

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

They've not been manufactured for well over a third of a century; I have a 2-4-0 bought c. 1980 but the 4-4-0 kits seem to be like hens' teeth - possibly manufacture stopped sooner. A significant drawback is that although many skilled modellers have made a good go of them down the years - replacing frames, wheels, motor and drive, boiler fittings... - they were never really a working proposition straight out of the box. A disappointment to those who had cut their teeth on the carriage kits. 

 

Both kits have the Deeley smokebox and chimney and represent engines that survived unrebuilt into early LMS days - as the box illustrations make clear. The 4-4-0 represents the 1312 Class with 6'6" drivers; the 2-4-0 the 1400 Class with 6'8.5" drivers; since as far as I'm aware the kits share the splasher/cabside/half-boiler molding, there's some little dimensional ambiguity.

 

It's been explained that there was some consolidation of the Ratio range, including the deletion of some of the LNWR wagon kits, when the firm was bought by Peco to secure the latter's injection molding capability, c. 1983?

Edited July 10, 2019 by Compound2632

[Joseph_Pestell]

49 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They've not been manufactured for well over a third of a century; I have a 2-4-0 bought c. 1980 but the 4-4-0 kits seem to be like hens' teeth - possibly manufacture stopped sooner. A significant drawback is that although many skilled modellers have made a good go of them down the years - replacing frames, wheels, motor and drive, boiler fittings... - they were never really a working proposition straight out of the box. A disappointment to those who had cut their teeth on the carriage kits. 

 

Both kits have the Deeley smokebox and chimney and represent engines that survived unrebuilt into early LMS days - as the box illustrations make clear. The 4-4-0 represents the 1312 Class with 6'6" drivers; the 2-4-0 the 1400 Class with 6'8.5" drivers; since as far as I'm aware the kits share the splasher/cabside/half-boiler molding, there's some little dimensional ambiguity.

 

It's been explained that there was some consolidation of the Ratio range, including the deletion of some of the LNWR wagon kits, when the firm was bought by Peco to secure the latter's injection molding capability, c. 1983?

 

More like 93, I think.

[Compound2632]

The demise / repackaging of the LNWR wagon kits was earlier than that; early/mid-80s.

[Barry Ten]

I also wondered what became of these kits, beyond a vague recollection that they didn't have a great reputation.

[Captain Kernow]

I've often wondered whether some kind of similar plastic injection moulded loco kits might be a winner for certain prototypes today, but I suppose that in these days of the white heat of technology, that such things couldn't compete against 3-D printed stuff instead.

 

[RodneyS]

I bought one of the 4-4-0 kits  by mail order when they first came out and it certainly was a disappointment.

I seem to remember a review (after I'd bought mine) that said something along the lines of 'oh dear'.

 

It wasn't a lot different to the Kitmaster kits with handrails moulded on and a few rivets the size of dinner plates.

The wheels were plastic and chrome plated.  The driving wheels had a stub axle which ran in a metal eyelet fitted into the plastic frames.

They were joined together with a spindly plastic axles.  Pieces of wire trapped between the eyelet and the frames gave a split axle pick up.

The gears were all plastic and the motor was one of the 'Popper' 50p ones which were being sold at the time.

 

I kept mine as a reminder never to buy anything without at least seeing a review.

I think the whole kit was about the price of a Wills kit at the time without wheels and motor.

 

The 4-4-0 was followed by the 2-4-0 and a friend bought one of those.

The handrails were not moulded on and the frames were brass.  The wheels and stub axles were cast in Mazak.

As a result the wheels got very dirty very quickly and it ended it's life on his EM gauge light railway being pushed around by a Rivarossi 4 wheel tender.

 

The 2-4-0 was reintroduced later with a better chassis and wheels but the 4-4-0 seemed to disappear - possibly because of the moulded on handrails.

Rodney

 

 

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There is a volume break - which will move with development - between competing systems such as injection moulding and printed, and for the present only short production runs favour printing. Injection moulded model loco kits are still being manufactured, but for assembly at the factory. (This idea was common in MR clubs in my youth, since when I have got on with pulling them apart and rebuilding them into what I wanted. We would have been weeping into our beer with gratitude for the present plentiful supply.)

 

But the major obstacles to the general popularity and thus uptake of loco kits are two:

Mechanism to make it go;

Exterior paint finish.

 

While it is economic to produce complete models by a factory system, that's what will continue to constitute the general market. Technology changes making shorter runs possible may well open the door to increasingly niche low volume sales subjects (hurrah! more choices of what to pull apart) but they will still be assembled and finished RTR products.

 

Kit production by whatever technique will have to run to stay ahead in various ways, for those still wanting to build their own. (Possibly until the day comes that we all have our in home replicators, and 'the kit' now comes from whoever wrote the programme; scratchbuilders(SW) included.) And yet there will still be determined scratchbuilder(HW) types insisting on cutting materials and assembling the good old fashioned way. Possibly with a little help from their 10 axis laser mill, electron beam welder and chromobiogenic surface coater...

 

 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I built the Johnson 2-4-0 back in the early 80's. I seem to remember that it had a mixed plastic and brass chassis. The side plates were brass and the inner parts plastic. I found the engine was very fragile and had poor pulling power. Even with extra weight. It did not last long before being moved to the scrap box. One other thing I did not like was that the chassis frames were in one piece and all the wheels were fitted into the frame. Made the chassis a bit long to go over the points of the time as there was very little movement for the front pony wheels. There are several of the 2-4-0 engines for sale on Ebay atm. Ranging between £60.00 to £80.00. I could not find any of the 4-4-0's for sale.

Edited July 11, 2019 by cypherman

[The Johnster]

These were probably intended to go with Ratio's Midland coaches, and might have been followed had they been successful by something to go with the LNWR stock (Hardwick?, piloted by Columbine?) and to go with the GW 4 wheelers (Metro?), which could have been useful for kitbashers.

 

Plastic kits with working chassis never really took off, though.  I remember mail ordering chassis kits for Airfix kits, and made a Drewry DM shunter and a J94 work, after a fashion, but came to grief with a 9F.  These consisted of top hat bearings and a length of pre-drilled rail for the coupling rod; you put your own pickups, wheels, chassis, and motors in.  The idea was to glue the bearings into the kit frames and solder the pickup wires to them, but a plastic frame was never really going to provide a stable, stiff, platform for a chassis and, even when they worked, it was not in a way that was reliable over any period.  Can't remember who made them now, but they should have been ashamed of themselves.  

[Steamport Southport]

The one I posted above has a proper brass chassis. You can see the spacers on the fret behind. You could even compensate it if that's your thing.

 

The only problem would be weight. Make it as a dummy, fill it with metal and run it with something else as a typical Midland double header. Maybe that was Ratio's intention all along.

 

 

 

Jason

[Worsdell forever]

Here's my effort at the 2-4-0 which I know the Cap'n has been perusing...

 

 

[Neil]

7 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I've often wondered whether some kind of similar plastic injection moulded loco kits might be a winner for certain prototypes today, but I suppose that in these days of the white heat of technology, that such things couldn't compete against 3-D printed stuff instead.

 

 

One of the advantages of a plastic kit is that they're easy to mess about with whereas 3-D prints are a more difficult proposition for the would be customiser. In the world of 009 model making there's a long and honourable tradition of turning the Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol pug into all sorts of stuff which the designer never intended for it. Obviously I've had a go or two at bashing the pug.

 

 

 

Even had a go at a standard gauge one.

 

However this doesn't get us any further forward in working out what might also have similar levels of success in the plastic kit market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

I remember a mostly plastic kit for an American loco being reviewed in Model Railroader about 20 years ago, but as a concept it clearly didn't catch on. That said, any sort of loco kitbuilding is largely a thing of the past in the US.

[Nile]

9 hours ago, RodneyS said:

The 2-4-0 was reintroduced later with a better chassis and wheels but the 4-4-0 seemed to disappear - possibly because of the moulded on handrails.

Rodney

I have a 4-4-0 kit without moulded handrails. As most of the body parts are common to both kits this makes sense.

[Graham456]

On my to do pile are two 2-4-0 kits and one 4-4-0 , both have the later part brass chassis and I have a perseverance chassis for the other, Romford wheels to replace ones supplied await use.djh sixty to one gearboxes, and stashed away Little mashimas ready to go , no molded on handrails to be seen 

missing ingredient?.............time

Edited July 11, 2019 by Graham456
Spellchucker

[RLWP]

4 hours ago, Neil said:

 

One of the advantages of a plastic kit is that they're easy to mess about with whereas 3-D prints are a more difficult proposition for the would be customiser. In the world of 009 model making there's a long and honourable tradition of turning the Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol pug into all sorts of stuff which the designer never intended for it. Obviously I've had a go or two at bashing the pug.

 

 

 

 

Outrageous!

 

 

 

Richard

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

...Plastic kits with working chassis never really took off, though.  I remember mail ordering chassis kits for Airfix kits, and made a Drewry DM shunter and a J94 work, after a fashion, but came to grief with a 9F.  These consisted of top hat bearings and a length of pre-drilled rail for the coupling rod; you put your own pickups, wheels, chassis, and motors in.  The idea was to glue the bearings into the kit frames and solder the pickup wires to them, but a plastic frame was never really going to provide a stable, stiff, platform for a chassis and, even when they worked, it was not in a way that was reliable over any period.  Can't remember who made them now, but they should have been ashamed of themselves.  

But how else was I to learn a materials lesson: that the grade of moulding polystyrene used had limited fatigue resistance even to the small power of a miniature motor flexing the frame? Not that brass framed mechanism kits were any better. We must always measure the axle centres in both side frames, to make sure they match both sides. Stiff letter of complaint written on cardboard to Stephen Poole, and another lesson learned...

[RodneyS]

That is very interesting about the lack of moulded on handrails.  I am sure mine has them but I won't be able to check for a few days,

I did buy one of the first kits out so perhaps they were altered later.  

Rodney

 

[RodneyS]

I've found my Ratio 4-4-0 kit and I was right about the moulded on handrails.

The rivets measure about 0.5mm dia and the boiler bands are a bit on the thick side.

This is why my kit is still in the box as it seemed like too much work to make anything of it.

I knew that the mouldings in the 2-4-0 were improved but I didn't realise the 4-4-0 was ever upgraded until now.

You live and learn.

Rodney

 

[Steamport Southport]

Went for £86 plus £9.99 P&P in the end.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RATIO-OO-039-LMS-MR-JOHNSON-2-4-0-LOCO-amp-TENDER-KIT-INC-WHEELS-MOTOR-/303214922157?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=jH8dDdAyC7WwZLulTsD0QXgqFoQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

 

 

 

Jason

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 14/07/2019 at 21:14, Steamport Southport said:

Went for £86 plus £9.99 P&P in the end.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RATIO-OO-039-LMS-MR-JOHNSON-2-4-0-LOCO-amp-TENDER-KIT-INC-WHEELS-MOTOR-/303214922157?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=jH8dDdAyC7WwZLulTsD0QXgqFoQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

 

 

 

Jason

About £30 less than an etched kit of the 1400 Class, although the Ratio kit on Ebay did include wheels.

 

I did once try to build a motorised version of the 4-4-0, but it was beyond my abilities at the time and I gave up. It was completed by a friend who was a very accomplished modeller. but he never regarded as one of his better models. I had previously built an Airfix 0-4-0 Pug, using the motorising kit. It worked, after a fashion.